15168 réponses à ce sujet

[enayasoul]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Elyvern:
She'd be possessive, yes. But in which way - by making it all very public? That just doesn't feel right... anyway, I never get that scene, so it doesn't concern me overmuch.

But that's my point: it wasn't public. The confrontation only involves her and Shepard. And thus I felt it was within the realm of plausibility that she said what she said in a private capacity. Do note that we don't see her acting on that sentiment (she wants everyone to know Shepard is hers) publicly, which would still support the argument that she is by nature, a reserved person.

I suppose we differ in the sense that I want all of Miranda's actions to cohere to her established personality regardless of all the different choices I make as Shepard. I have never personally encountered the romance conflict scene myself because Miranda is the only LI for all my malesheps, although I have seen the scene on youtube. To put it another way, someone who always gives TIM the Collector's base for every playthrough wouldn't have to grapple with the OOC incident where Miranda advocates destroying the base, but it doesn't mean we can factor away her response in such a situation.

ooooh did I miss this conflict scene between Shepard and Miranda? Do tell.....   or where is it on you tube? hmmmm

never mind... i saw a few on youtube. hehehe. she doesn't want to share...

Modifié par enayasoul, 29 septembre 2010 - 11:03 .

[jtav]

I hate that line. What is it about the "main" romances in this game? I'm playing Jacob's romance right now. There's actually some good stuff in the post-LM convos, but the delivery of some lines is straight out of a bad porno. Same with Miranda. There are some good lines, but you also hace to put up with "Oh, I'm definitely interested" and the engine room scene.

[Arijharn]

fongiel24 wrote...

Well Casey isn't one of the writers and when he made that statement, it was only shortly after the game had come out (I think) so he wouldn't really have had much time to experience the character. Superficially, Jack appears to be a deeper character because she's insane whereas Miranda's complexity doesn't really become clear until her loyalty mission, when we're told the specifics about her origins.

That plain wouldn't be true. As a developer he'd be likely playing various builds of the game throughout it's development (although probably not as much as say a programmer). All he was stating was his opinion on the matter, and we're free to agree or disagree with him.

[Arijharn]

I like the engine room because it's just so unconventional, and that's definitely Miranda imo. Love isn't necessarily confined to the bedroom.

[Caihn]

http://www.youtube.c...?v=gP3mffT0HlM 

[ADLegend21]

so it seems every ME romance has issues. Since Miranda was my first romance ever (started with ME2) she's undoubtedly my favorite, but I'd need to redo her romance to remember all the details of it.

[MassAffected]

Nice to see these character threads are still "alive and kicking", so to speak.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...
Shepard being good at dancing is only OOC if you can't explain it. Without an explanation, I'd say it's a bit strange, since he's a career soldier without a lot of free time on his hands. In this case, I'd find slow dancing (I'm guessing people are thinking of ballroom-style dancing) to be more improbable than fast dancing because the latter he could have learned from going to lots of clubs. If you wrote it as Shepard being forced to learn to dance by his superiors so he could better find in at embassy balls and other formal events though, I'd have no problem buying it. He's probably naturally athletic so picking up dancing shouldn't be too difficult for him.

Except that it's been established Shepard is a klutz when it comes to fast dancing. So we can safely say he doesn't frequent clubs that much. In hindsight, I agree with fongiel. Shepard would likely have to undergo classes for ballroom dancing in preparation for his undercover work for it to be convincing.

I'd like to mention that I know from relatives that commissioned officers in my country are expected to attend enough formal events that ballroom-style dancing is almost an occupational skill (no, this is not limited to generals). At least it was like that 20 years ago. My problem was more with the way ME2 shows Shepard as a klutz. OK - now I know I'll have to give it a little spin to be convincing. That's what I wanted to know. Fortunately, there is no such problem with Miranda.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 07:10 .

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Well Casey isn't one of the writers and when he made that statement, it was only shortly after the game had come out (I think) so he wouldn't really have had much time to experience the character. Superficially, Jack appears to be a deeper character because she's insane whereas Miranda's complexity doesn't really become clear until her loyalty mission, when we're told the specifics about her origins.

That plain wouldn't be true. As a developer he'd be likely playing various builds of the game throughout it's development (although probably not as much as say a programmer). All he was stating was his opinion on the matter, and we're free to agree or disagree with him.

Of course we can. What bothers me - and others - is how his opinion might influence Miranda's character development in ME3. They'll have more freedom for diverging storylines in ME3 since it's the end of the trilogy, so I'm somewhat optimistic, but still it's troubling that such an opinion comes out of a more or less official source.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
I like the engine room because it's just so unconventional, and that's definitely Miranda imo. Love isn't necessarily confined to the bedroom.

I don't think there is any part of Miranda's storyline and romance people have so widely differring opinions about. Almost any part of it has been dissected and commented upon in various ways. As a rule, I tend to agree with you. I also like the unconventional in this. My only problem is that every time I watch it, my back aches in sympathy when I see Shepard on this corrugated metal floor. You could say it takes a lot of passion to ignore that. 

Apart from that, my criticism of the engine room scene is the same as for all other ME2 romance scenes. I like they're more elaborate than the ME1 scenes, but the ME1 scenes were more realistic and, what can I say, more romantic *and* more sexy at the same time. In comparison, the ME2 scenes were all failures. 

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Well Casey isn't one of the writers and when he made that statement, it was only shortly after the game had come out (I think) so he wouldn't really have had much time to experience the character. Superficially, Jack appears to be a deeper character because she's insane whereas Miranda's complexity doesn't really become clear until her loyalty mission, when we're told the specifics about her origins.

That plain wouldn't be true. As a developer he'd be likely playing various builds of the game throughout it's development (although probably not as much as say a programmer). All he was stating was his opinion on the matter, and we're free to agree or disagree with him.

Of course we can. What bothers me - and others - is how his opinion might influence Miranda's character development in ME3. They'll have more freedom for diverging storylines in ME3 since it's the end of the trilogy, so I'm somewhat optimistic, but still it's troubling that such an opinion comes out of a more or less official source.

While it's possible, I doubt Casey Hudson has as much say in the development of characters compared to Preston Wataniuck (sorry, I can't actually remember his surname) because Preston is a Lead Game Designer where-as Casey is the man whose role it is to essentially make sure Preston's view comes to life and to organise the various individual department leads who make the game do so on budget and on schedule. Obviously I don't know who individually wrote up Miranda (maybe it's like DA in that all had a hand in her creation) but I'm almost certain that it wouldn't be this malleable for characters to be influenced from outside a core team.
What I'm trying to say is that I find it as likely as a programmer could influence a character's development as could Casey, because people generally have very specialized roles within game dev.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Apart from that, my criticism of the engine room scene is the same as for all other ME2 romance scenes. I like they're more elaborate than the ME1 scenes, but the ME1 scenes were more realistic and, what can I say, more romantic *and* more sexy at the same time. In comparison, the ME2 scenes were all failures. 

I swear sometimes we have a single gestalt mind Ieldra. Are we Geth?

[Jebel Krong]

i like the engine room scene more than any of the other romance scenes in either game. that said it could still be better.



As for Casey's statements: in a way, as the game presents them, he's right - jack is, on the surface, a more complex character (however unlikeable) - just by appearance alone you know there's several things going on, whereas Miranda is presented as "ice queen cerberus lackey" at first. however the way the game is written and the way you get to know the characters through successive conversations and then the loyalty missions etc. means they are all about as complex as each other, and easily imagined as real individuals, and Miranda is easily one of the best, not even counting the romance.

[fongiel24]

Miranda definitely takes some unwrapping. You don't really grasp the full complexity of the character without playing through ME2 a few times and really stopping to think about the implications of what she tells you. I doubt Casey would have the time or desire to do that. Jack tends to be more in-your-face, which makes you immediately want to know more about why she is the way she is.

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

Miranda definitely takes some unwrapping. You don't really grasp the full complexity of the character without playing through ME2 a few times and really stopping to think about the implications of what she tells you. I doubt Casey would have the time or desire to do that. Jack tends to be more in-your-face, which makes you immediately want to know more about why she is the way she is.

or not. y'know because I really just wanted to space her/shoot her before hearing anything more out of her piehole after just rescuing her.

Miranda's not that complicated - being an audio/visual medium (and having gotten to a decent degree of sophistication) a lot of information is presented if you look at even just her facial expressions/body language, let alone listen to what she says. of course, everyone does interpret a lot of things in slightly different ways, hence the fertile discussion that keeps this thread alive 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[Arijharn]

Jack is like the one character I can honestly say I didn't really like. I mean, I wasn't in a rush to get her killed (but that's more to do with the fact that it'd diminish my team rather than any altruistic thought I can assure you) but I didn't really want to know her either.



I just wish I could bite back at her when you get her aboard the Normandy. She has to realise by the end of the game that no one can mess with Shephard and live... which is probably why she stares at him in a sort of gape mouthed awe in the final cinematic in the cargo hold.

[Jebel Krong]

Arijharn wrote...

...which is probably why she stares at him in a sort of gape mouthed awe in the final cinematic in the cargo hold.

i thought maybe she'd gone to the "Marina Sirtis School of Acting"... 

[Arijharn]

Matriarch Benezia never stared at me with slack jawed awe

[Jebel Krong]

(obviously you never saw much ST: TNG.) Benezia was probably too busy putting you to sleep with her monotone voice... 

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Apart from that, my criticism of the engine room scene is the same as for all other ME2 romance scenes. I like they're more elaborate than the ME1 scenes, but the ME1 scenes were more realistic and, what can I say, more romantic *and* more sexy at the same time. In comparison, the ME2 scenes were all failures. 

I swear sometimes we have a single gestalt mind Ieldra. Are we Geth?

I'm unaware of any FTL link
It's not that uncommon an opinion, I believe it's shared by the majority of fans present on the forums. I blame Fox News coupled with Bioware timidity. Really, that network represents everything I hate...

Let's hope Bioware finds itself willing to listen to its fans in this regard. They actually have a good record, so things aren't completely hopeless.

[Arijharn]

Mis-tress Ieldra2, Arijharn-has-an-enquiry, do-I-have-a-soul?

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
Mis-tress Ieldra2, Arijharn-has-an-enquiry, do-I-have-a-soul?

Not enough data. Definition of "soul" not agreed on by organics.

On a slightly more serious note, I believe that what is considered a soul is an emergent property of matter (in the broadest physical sense) as its organization becomes complex enough to enable self-reflection. Conclusion: no matter your origins, if you can ask the question and understand what you're asking, you have a soul.

To get back on topic, I think were she spiritually inclined, Miranda might also want to ask that question. Being scientifically inclined, I think she'd agree with what I said in the previous paragraph.

[Jebel Krong]

i concur.

[Axestone]

I has tried creating a screenshot:

Don't judge me strictly

[Caihn]

Nice Screenshot.