15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
Mis-tress Ieldra2, Arijharn-has-an-enquiry, do-I-have-a-soul?

Not enough data. Definition of "soul" not agreed on by organics.

On a slightly more serious note, I believe that what is considered a soul is an emergent property of matter (in the broadest physical sense) as its organization becomes complex enough to enable self-reflection. Conclusion: no matter your origins, if you can ask the question and understand what you're asking, you have a soul.

To get back on topic, I think were she spiritually inclined, Miranda might also want to ask that question. Being scientifically inclined, I think she'd agree with what I said in the previous paragraph.

@Iledra - I don't think she'd actually use the word "soul" in the first place. Consciousness, yes. My take on the engine room scene--I like that it's novel, and I did feel a pang of sympathy for Shepard, but his combat skin weave upgrade may possibly make the whole thing less painful, hah! My only gripe is the bad flak that comes from that particular locale, but all in all, I'm fine with it, Maybe it's because what you said previously came to mind, in a non-emergency situation, I can imagine Miranda pulling Shepard into a sheltered corner for a quick necking. Quite in tune with her femme fatale super spy set up.

Just an observation -- I was also looking through her chat transcript with Oriana again, specifically the part where she quotes the extranet column advice. It's likely that Miranda agrees with the sentiment of the advice before choosing to quote it for Oriana's benefit. I wonder if it was as educationally revealing for her personally as well, although does sound a little passive though, especially the part where it says "You have to trust when things are right he will notice you". Quite different from the general impression I have of her as someone who will attempt to make things she wants happen instead of waiting for a lucky break. I suppose waiting for the SM to be done with could be construed as "when things are right".  

Modifié par Elyvern, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Ieldra]

Axestone wrote...
I has tried creating a screenshot:

Don't judge me strictly

A nice screenshot is a nice screenshot. No matter if similar ones have been posted before, it's always appreciated. At this point, I think there may be no new motives left, so *every* unmodified screenshot we post here has appeared before. Do not hesitate to post more.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:40 .

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Just an observation -- I was also looking through her chat transcript with Oriana again, specifically the part where she quotes the extranet column advice. It's likely that Miranda agrees with the sentiment of the advice before choosing to quote it for Oriana's benefit. I wonder if it was as educationally revealing for her personally as well, although does sound a little passive though, especially the part where it says "You have to trust when things are right he will notice you". Quite different from the general impression I have of her as someone who will attempt to make things she wants happen instead of waiting for a lucky break. I suppose waiting for the SM to be done with could be construed as "when things are right".

I think this is just another case of the writers not thinking enough about who they're writing about. You know what I think: a writer picked up the first standard phrase he came across on a dating advice website, and that's all the reason there is for that particular phrase. As I said, I'm beyond trying to integrate these things into a coherent whole, even more so than usual with the dossier as several parts of it bear the marks of having been written as an afterthought.

(What did you mean with "SM"? I never get these abrreviations)

BTW, I agree that Miranda would be perfectly capable of drawing Shepard into a corner... what does that say about her advice to Oriana? Yep....ooc. Assuming she did think about what kind of advice she'd like to give her sister - but I take that as a given.
Edit: Some people do recommend different behaviour than they exhibit themselves, but I never counted Miranda as a hypocrite, nor do I think her own forwardness troubles her.I'd rather expect her to look up something that resolves into: "Well, if he doesn't notice you, make him take notice. I know of a few ways to do that."

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Arijharn]

Actually, I think it would be awesome but slightly alarming if Oriana started to get the hots for Shephard (but that may be because I'm certain that Shephard will somehow get on to the 'sexiest human alive' lists after well, the battle for the citadel and supposed actions against the Collectors and mos def against the Reapers when that 'blows over...')

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
Just an observation -- I was also looking through her chat transcript with Oriana again, specifically the part where she quotes the extranet column advice. It's likely that Miranda agrees with the sentiment of the advice before choosing to quote it for Oriana's benefit. I wonder if it was as educationally revealing for her personally as well, although does sound a little passive though, especially the part where it says "You have to trust when things are right he will notice you". Quite different from the general impression I have of her as someone who will attempt to make things she wants happen instead of waiting for a lucky break. I suppose waiting for the SM to be done with could be construed as "when things are right".

I think this is just another case of the writers not thinking enough about who they're writing about. You know what I think: a writer picked up the first standard phrase he came across on a dating advice website, and that's all the reason there is for that particular phrase. As I said, I'm beyond trying to integrate these things into a coherent whole, even more so than usual with the dossier as several parts of it bear the marks of having been written as an afterthought.

(What did you mean with "SM"? I never get these abrreviations)

Suicide Mission. I made my above point while keeping in mind what Miranda says to Shepard about the mission being too important to let personal feelings interfere, although it doesn't pan out that way in the romance eventually of course.

BTW, I agree that Miranda would be perfectly capable of drawing Shepard into a corner... what does that say about her advice to Oriana? Yep....ooc. Assuming she did think about what kind of advice she'd like to give her sister - but I take that as a given.

I read it as Miranda herself possibly looking at the first few lines and seeing that the advice generally coheres with her own sentiments before quoting it. I'm also not sure she has very strong ideas about how to pursue a romantic entanglement that would make that line particularly jarring to her. But this is where it all goes into the realm of conjecture, because while we may agree that she would be the kind of lover who'd indulge in stolen moments, there is also enough evidence to prove she wouldn't do that. And the only time when we see her making a active grab for Shepard's attention, so to speak, is that problematic romance scene conflict (again).

Edit: Some people do recommend different behaviour than they exhibit themselves, but I never counted Miranda as a hypocrite, nor do I think her own forwardness troubles her.I'd rather expect her to look up something that resolves into: "Well, if he doesn't notice you, make him take notice. I know of a few ways to do that."

This is fodder for thought, and I'm intrigued. How would you imagine she would go about making someone she likes take notice? The 1 in-game incident that jumps to mind is of course the elevator scene before the O-4 relay, but I'd consider that a battle already won so it doesn't actually count.

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

This is fodder for thought, and I'm intrigued. How would you imagine she would go about making someone she likes take notice? The 1 in-game incident that jumps to mind is of course the elevator scene before the O-4 relay, but I'd consider that a battle already won so it doesn't actually count.

given her background, training etc but especially her physical appearance, i doubt she'd have to think about it too hard, then again that and her relative inexperience might work against her in most cases (obviously not with Shepard though). Given her physical appearance is one of the things he mentions in her shortlist, i think she knows the effect she has on men...

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 30 septembre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Pwnisher]

Miranda does seem a bit ooc when reading the transcripts from her conversation with Oriana.

[t3HPrO]

Imagine Miranda finding out that Oriana has a crush on Shepard. Warning: ooc ahead.

Oriana: Shepard is such a man! Oh I'm in love...I wanna marry him!

Miranda: *uses slam on Oriana before straddling her prone body and ****slapping her vigorously* HE'S MINE YOU ****!!!! HE'S MINE!!! MINE!!!

[Nightwriter]

Oh my goodness. That was so OOC it was painful. Painful! Why didn't I listen to your warning?! Why?! Confound my curiosity!

[Aedan1992]

Somehow i get the feeling that i would not be surprised if oriana gets or has a crush on shepard.

[Errol Dnamyx]

Every female lifeform seems to have a crush on Shepard.

[Elyvern]

What's with everyone suddenly having the same pic for their signature? Now I feel like the odd signature-less one out...

[Nightwriter]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Every female lifeform seems to have a crush on Shepard.

Kasumi seems uninterested.

Wonder what she sees in Jacob. Maybe it's the muscles. I wonder if she'd be attracted to Shepard if Shepard didn't have a mediocre/average build.

[jtav]

I'm playing Jacob's romance right now. The two post-LM conversations aren't bad. But, yes, I think it's his physique. I can see what Miranda would see in him, though, and why it wouldn't work out.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...
Somehow i get the feeling that i would not be surprised if oriana gets or has a crush on shepard.

If there's any genetic component in who you fall in love with.... no, it would be too cheap. But I bet there'll be a fanfic about a Shepard/Miranda/Oriana triangle before long.

BTW, does anyone else think Oriana is a bit ooc for a 19-year-old woman in the dossier? Sounds more like 15 if you ask me...

@jtav:
I agree, the two middle conversations with Jacob are done well. Too bad the ending and the beginning are written so badly.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

Shepard has a mediocre build? I can´t quite agree on that. In my eyes, Jacob isn´t that much more muscular than Sheploo either. *shrugs*

[Aedan1992]

I agree with Errol Dnamyx. I think shepard is even more mucular than jacob since shepard had alot more training than him. Its just that it has never been shown because of the casual outfits. But i think it would be cool to see what shepard's cannon body would look like.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BTW, does anyone else think Oriana is a bit ooc for a 19-year-old woman in the dossier? Sounds more like 15 if you ask me...

Not just Oriana, TBH. The part where Miranda says "I hate him already." makes her sound far younger than her 35 years too. But it's natural for girls(and women) to act a little silly in an intimate conversation with each other, so I didn't read too much into it apart from an "aww..." feeling.  

[jtav]

Well, there's fanfic of everything, so a Shepard/Miranda/Oriana triangle wouldn't surprise me. I do wish Miranda attracted more good writers and there was more fic where she wasn't paired with Shepard.



"I hate him already" sounded like such a normal overprotective big sister line that I couldn't help but be touched.

[Elyvern]

To elaborate: I actually think the chat dossier with her sister was pretty well written in that you could actually see Miranda slowly warming up to the conversation: from looking to fulfilling Oriana's needs to trying to connect with her emotionally. Granted, the protrayal of Oriana was a little too stereotypically girly and flighty, considering that she is at least as intelligent as Miranda.

But I really do like the part where Miranda actually apologises for making Oriana angry. For me it goes to show that her sister's good opinion of her actually matters, even if the transgression in question seems awfully trivial. In any other circumstance, I wouldn't imagine that Miranda would apologise for something like that. And it's very telling because you wouldn't care too much about what another person thinks of you unless you value their impression of you deeply enough to worry over it, ie. in the case of loved ones and intimate friends. 

The part where she say "I hate him already" is definitely Miri trying to play the role of a protective big sister, but I also see her as attempting to bring herself in line with her sister's emotional state, trying to connect and understand what would be important to a 19 year old with a crush. What a strange line of thought it must be for her!

There's no way to see this excerpt as anything else but revealing a human and warmer side to to Miranda's personality and also establishing what could be the first intimate familial tie for her. Funny that this excerpt rarely gets mentioned when compared to her dating and medical files. For me, this is the gem in the entire dossier.

Modifié par Elyvern, 30 septembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Ieldra]

It doesn't get mentioned much because it isn't controversial. I don't think there are many who'd not agree. I like this part about as much as I dislike the infertility. With the only very minor quibble I mentioned above.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[jtav]

Yes, that part is utterly charming and makes me smile. It's going to be painful not to get it in my current game, knowing what could have been. It's amazing how miserable you can make her without even trying to be cruel.

[Elyvern]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

This is fodder for thought, and I'm intrigued. How would you imagine she would go about making someone she likes take notice? The 1 in-game incident that jumps to mind is of course the elevator scene before the O-4 relay, but I'd consider that a battle already won so it doesn't actually count.

given her background, training etc but especially her physical appearance, i doubt she'd have to think about it too hard, then again that and her relative inexperience might work against her in most cases (obviously not with Shepard though). Given her physical appearance is one of the things he mentions in her shortlist, i think she knows the effect she has on men...

Point taken. Although note that she never uses that on Shepard in any way, despite the fact that he is the sole and most obvious target of her affections in the game. (ignore things like the awful camera angles and all). I suppose that's an angle that Bioware wasn't interested in protraying: ie. the literal femme fatale, and I'm glad they didn't for many reasons.

But if I had to think of another approach she could take, my mind comes to a blank. She wouldn't use subterfuge or present herself in anyway that is not true to her own nature. It's almost like a challenge: "either choose to accept all that I am, or not at all. I make no concessions." Which is she has so many detractors on the Normandy and even amongst people in the forums. My impression is while Miranda is definitely not a person who would wait for things to fall into her lap, her personality would make it hard for her to compete for the affections of someone she's interested in if there is competition. Thoughts?

[jtav]

I wouldn't have minded (read: I would have really liked) to have Miranda as an actual femme fatale. I actually am curious as to how Miranda would react to competition and how insecure she'd be since there is a past Shepard/Liara relationship in the story I'm writing.



Miranda is apparently the least popular female LI among women in this forum. I wonder why. She also didn't do terribly well as a character among them. Wonder why? It makes me feel a bit odd. I dislike the romance, but she's one of three ME2 characters I adore.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Point taken. Although note that she never uses that on Shepard in any way, despite the fact that he is the sole and most obvious target of her affections in the game. (ignore things like the awful camera angles and all). I suppose that's an angle that Bioware wasn't interested in protraying: ie. the literal femme fatale, and I'm glad they didn't for many reasons.

This is because Shepard is the driving force in the romance. It it weren't for him, she'd not decide to follow her emotions in the first place. Once committed - after the "promise" scene - she does act up decisively.

But if I had to think of another approach she could take, my mind comes to a blank. She wouldn't use subterfuge or present herself in anyway that is not true to her own nature. It's almost like a challenge: "either choose to accept all that I am, or not at all. I make no concessions." Which is she has so many detractors on the Normandy and even amongst people in the forums. My impression is while Miranda is definitely not a person who would wait for things to fall into her lap, her personality would make it hard for her to compete for the affections of someone she's interested in if there is competition. Thoughts?

You know, I love that "I make no concessions." I'd answer with "I'd expect none, if you do likewise". A challenging romance, to be sure, and it stays a challenge even if it works, but in many aspects the perfect relationship.
As for how Miranda would compete: with little difficulty, if you ask me. I think she is competitive, and while she wouldn't compromise, wouldn't hide anything of what she is, she's perfectly capable of showing what she has in the best possible light, be it in appearance or personality. She'd be able to act in a way that her mere entrance is a statement of contempt for her rivals. No, we don't see that in the game, but it's what would fit her character concept. She must have, after all, considerable experience in impressing men, or she wouldn't move like she does or speak with confidence about using her looks to gain an advantage. Really, being her rival must suck (btw, perhaps that's why so many female players dislike her)

@jtav:
I think her insecurity would only affect the part after the competition, where she has to go from impressing someone to gain his trust and trust him in return.
As for the femme fatale: she dooms men in the end. I wouldn't have liked that. And while I'd have liked her to act more of that aspect out, it requires more social situations, which the game is lacking.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 septembre 2010 - 07:31 .