15168 réponses à ce sujet

[t3HPrO]

I love this thread. I can actually have mature discussions instead of all the damn flame wars on YouTube courtesy of those damn talitrollers. Thanks my good men(and woman).

[t3HPrO]

Elyvern wrote...
Seriously, unless you are the writer and are in the position to justify certain behaviours pertinent to the moment as well as confirm the occurance of events that would support your hypothesis, you really cannot make such statements and expect them to be valid, especially when you're speculating on the unknown. Perhaps this judgement would be more appropriate after giving Ieldra the opportunity to write and engage his narrative authority first.  

I also think we're going out of line: making a highlight of another person's fanfic and criticising it like we would for canon work. Let's just stop now please. It could be you or me under the firing squad here.

Agreed. Uh...did anyone else hear that gun being loaded?

[t3HPrO]

Okay, moving along. So, I'm still interested in why we fell in love with Miranda in the first place. For me, it was the fact that she was hiding some deep emotional baggage and her character was interesting. I admit, I was kinda put off by her (oft complained and harped on by none other than those trollers we've come to know as buckethead-mancers) b**chy attitude. However, it dropped when we got on the Normandy. And I used a chisel to get through her ice queen exterior.  And there...I found love and perfection.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
Like any scenario we have talked about constantly in this thread, all extrapolations of personality are valid as long as they don't actively go against character moments in-game. This is just one of them. Your arguing that Miranda wouldn't engage in much sex has little basis in-game. And the reasons for your reservations also seem contrary to existing evidence. Ieldra's speculation is perfectly valid in how a person's sense and ownership of their body, issues of self identity inform their behaviour and their attitude towards physical engagements. Examples of this in effect is amply shown in the character of Jack. And while we can agree that Jack and Miranda likely have different issues, Jack indulges in casual sex, or dare we even say hate sex, is evidence that yes, that issues of body perception leading to a specific sexual behaviour is a possibility writers have acknowledged.

What Ieldra seems to be suggesting is that Miranda gets at least two different c**ks every week. That's a bit much if you ask me, especially since it's with different partners instead of just one. And according to ingame info, Miranda is one of the highest level operatives, and the Illusive Man passes a lot of ops to her. There just isn't much time for casual sex, especially since Miranda will most likely be highly stressed during an op as well. And also, we know from ingame her standards are really effin' high, so just any random lay isn't gonna cut it. Once again narrowing the scope.

I have suggested nothing of the sort. That's your interpretation. BTW, if you're the spy/agent/operative business, sex has a high chance of being one of the tools of the trade. While I'd agree that Miranda would avoid having sex with people she doesn't like, she also wouldn't hesitate to combine the useful with the enjoyable. And lastly, how much sex with different partners you regard as "too much" is a matter of taste, culture and upbringing. You can say it's too much for you, but hey, I can reply "it's not for me".
I should add that I'm using this as a *background* trait for Miranda as she appears in my fanfic. You won't find me writing stories with lots of sex scenes with Miranda - unlike your "Reunited", btw, which features rather more sex than I like.

[t3HPrO]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have suggested nothing of the sort. That's your interpretation. BTW, if you're the spy/agent/operative business, sex has a high chance of being one of the tools of the trade. While I'd agree that Miranda would avoid having sex with people she doesn't like, she also wouldn't hesitate to combine the useful with the enjoyable. And lastly, how much sex with different partners you regard as "too much" is a matter of taste, culture and upbringing. You can say it's too much for you, but hey, I can reply "it's not for me".
I should add that I'm using this as a *background* trait for Miranda as she appears in my fanfic. You won't find me writing stories with lots of sex scenes with Miranda - unlike your "Reunited", btw, which features rather more sex than I like.

Dagnabbit I've been ambushed. Anyways, mine was originally written as a kinkmeme request oneshot, but I got hooked. So...15 chapters on...and still going. Damn my fever...it's delaying my chapter 16.

[t3HPrO]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have suggested nothing of the sort. That's your interpretation. BTW, if you're the spy/agent/operative business, sex has a high chance of being one of the tools of the trade. While I'd agree that Miranda would avoid having sex with people she doesn't like, she also wouldn't hesitate to combine the useful with the enjoyable. And lastly, how much sex with different partners you regard as "too much" is a matter of taste, culture and upbringing. You can say it's too much for you, but hey, I can reply "it's not for me".
I should add that I'm using this as a *background* trait for Miranda as she appears in my fanfic. You won't find me writing stories with lots of sex scenes with Miranda - unlike your "Reunited", btw, which features rather more sex than I like.

And btw, I prefer a Salt-esque Miranda who uses her wits and brains instead of resorting to sex at every turn. For her, I'd assume sex is a complete last resort where your mission is going right into the trash heap.

[t3HPrO]

Okay, one quick question. Who else besides me thinks that Miri is bisexual? *Ducks out of door in case of incoming fire*

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have suggested nothing of the sort. That's your interpretation. BTW, if you're the spy/agent/operative business, sex has a high chance of being one of the tools of the trade. While I'd agree that Miranda would avoid having sex with people she doesn't like, she also wouldn't hesitate to combine the useful with the enjoyable. And lastly, how much sex with different partners you regard as "too much" is a matter of taste, culture and upbringing. You can say it's too much for you, but hey, I can reply "it's not for me".
I should add that I'm using this as a *background* trait for Miranda as she appears in my fanfic. You won't find me writing stories with lots of sex scenes with Miranda - unlike your "Reunited", btw, which features rather more sex than I like.

And btw, I prefer a Salt-esque Miranda who uses her wits and brains instead of resorting to sex at every turn. For her, I'd assume sex is a complete last resort where your mission is going right into the trash heap.

I can only say that one does not preclude the other. It's only that if her "target" is nice and attractive in the first place, perhaps she'll not try to avoid using sex as a means to get what she wants as hard. BTW, you're still arguing from the base assumption that sex is something to avoid unless sanctioned by certain cultural conventions. It's exactly this base assumption I like to challenge .

[t3HPrO]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I can only say that one does not preclude the other. It's only that if her "target" is nice and attractive in the first place, perhaps she'll not try to avoid using sex as a means to get what she wants as hard. BTW, you're still arguing from the base assumption that sex is something to avoid unless sanctioned by certain cultural conventions. It's exactly this base assumption I like to challenge.

Nah I'm not arguing from the assumption. I don't believe in that either. What I'm arguing from is that Miranda would prefer to use her brains over her looks when it comes to a mission, if her ingame behavior is anything to go by. And I'd prefer that too. I want brains with my beauty, and I'd like it if she uses those brains too. After all, that's what we fell in love with Miri for wasn't it?

[Lord Ed1]

t3HPrO wrote...

Okay, one quick question. Who else besides me thinks that Miri is bisexual? *Ducks out of door in case of incoming fire*

Well, Bioware doesn't! If she was intended to be bi she would have been a romance option for FemShep, which she wasn't, sadly.
I can see her being bisexual, it fits her in a way. However, having a baby is going to be important to her. I wonder if she thinks an actual father is necessary.
Let's just say I think she explored the option, but perhaps likes men just a little bit better.

[t3HPrO]

Nah. Bioware chickened out on f/f relationships because of...wait for it...wait for it...

FOX-EFFING-NEWS.

*sustained automatic gunfire*

*Mk148 Javelins fired*

[t3HPrO]

Just thought that this pic deserved a bump.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I can only say that one does not preclude the other. It's only that if her "target" is nice and attractive in the first place, perhaps she'll not try to avoid using sex as a means to get what she wants as hard. BTW, you're still arguing from the base assumption that sex is something to avoid unless sanctioned by certain cultural conventions. It's exactly this base assumption I like to challenge.

Nah I'm not arguing from the assumption. I don't believe in that either. What I'm arguing from is that Miranda would prefer to use her brains over her looks when it comes to a mission, if her ingame behavior is anything to go by. And I'd prefer that too. I want brains with my beauty, and I'd like it if she uses those brains too. After all, that's what we fell in love with Miri for wasn't it?

As I said, one does not preclude the other. BTW, using sex as a means to get what you want - instead of just having sex for fun - also takes some thinking. That men are more talkative in certain situations doesn't mean they're stupid.

Yes, I primarily like Miranda because she's competent and an independently powerful woman. Did you check the listed reasons for liking Miranda in the Miranda Lawson FAQ? All 10 reasons apply to me in different degrees.

BTW, does that picture mean you'll follow my orders from now on?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:16 .

[t3HPrO]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As I said, one does not preclude the other. BTW, using sex as a means to get what you want - instead of just having sex for fun - also takes some thinking. That men are more talkative in certain situations doesn't mean they're stupid.

Yes, I primarily like Miranda because she's competent and an independently powerful woman. Did you check the listed reasons for liking Miranda in the Miranda Lawson FAQ? All 10 reasons apply to me in different degrees.

BTW, does that picture mean you'll follow my orders from now on?

That wasn't quite what I was getting at...and negative Private! Get back to latrine duty!

Modifié par t3HPrO, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:20 .

[t3HPrO]

I wish Miranda had armor like this ingame.

http://browse.devian....com/?q=miranda lawson&order=9&offset=72#/d2sx6bs

Modifié par t3HPrO, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:28 .

[t3HPrO]

D'OH IT AINT WORKING!

[jtav]

Regarding Miranda and sex, I believe she has had numerous partners, mostly one night stands, over the last twenty years or so. I'm not going to try to come up with an exact number, because I'd probably be way off. I'm sexually conservative myself, but Miranda clearly isn't. She has no problem with having sex for no other reason than because she finds the of the person attractive. Romance is considerably harder for her. In the story I'm working on now, she has had only two really serious romantic relationships (with an original character as a teenager and an attempted one with Jacob). I also tend to write and think of her as bisexual. Since I like her with Thane and Liara, I suppose that makes her a xenophile as well, though she doesn't actively seeking out alien partners. She otherwise has extremely high standards.

And don't construe my desire for Shepard to die as wanting a tragic ending for Miranda. I just really don't like Shepard. At all.

[Arijharn]

You know what? I don't actually think Miranda would have been given that many assignments where her killer looks are used, if any. Miranda is brilliant, a genius even... it seems to me that she wouldn't have been used that much in field work, but rather overseeing the next technological driven achievement.



I'm guessing Cerberus has ready access to very attractive women, but possibly not that much access to highly qualified scientific staff (at least, not at the same rate). I don't think Miranda would have that many qualms in using her body (she'd view the mission in very clinical terms I should imagine) but nah, I wouldn't say TIM would give her an objective that says: "You must sleep with this politician to discredit him" because he'd probably be much more likely to give her an objective that said: "Make a more efficient medi-gel."

[t3HPrO]

Arijharn wrote...

You know what? I don't actually think Miranda would have been given that many assignments where her killer looks are used, if any. Miranda is brilliant, a genius even... it seems to me that she wouldn't have been used that much in field work, but rather overseeing the next technological driven achievement.

I'm guessing Cerberus has ready access to very attractive women, but possibly not that much access to highly qualified scientific staff (at least, not at the same rate). I don't think Miranda would have that many qualms in using her body (she'd view the mission in very clinical terms I should imagine) but nah, I wouldn't say TIM would give her an objective that says: "You must sleep with this politician to discredit him" because he'd probably be much more likely to give her an objective that said: "Make a more efficient medi-gel."

Fully agreed. It's nearly impossible to find so much intelligence as it is. And it comes as a VERY sexy, beautiful and attractive package called Miranda Lawson. Due to the fact hot girls are probably a dime a dozen for Cerberus, Miranda would more likely be used for research and development as they don't have that much intelligence around.

[Arijharn]

t3HPrO wrote...
... as they don't have that much intelligence around.

LOL. I'm probably takign that out of context but still, I chuckled.

[t3HPrO]

Oh, a new chapter of my fic which deals with Miranda's s*itty LotSB dossier is finally up after a long delay. Here it is:www.fanfiction.net/s/5986661/16/Reunited And do drop me a review.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And don't construe my desire for Shepard to die as wanting a tragic ending for Miranda. I just really don't like Shepard. At all.

There is that, yes. And that the game encourages you to select extremist responses (Paragon/Renegade) makes it worse. It's hard work to imagine a Shepard I can like. Though I'm doing a playthrough where I ignore the P/R system in favor of roleplaying. One result is that I tend to select the middle responses in most conversations. Things are much better in that playthrough. I recommend cheating with P/R points.

Having said that, I agree with you in that an epilogue where Miranda is dead would be more unbearable than one where Shepard is dead.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Arijharn]

Obviously I like Miranda, but I like Shephard a lot too, I just wish he was more a character or a human in the game rather than the last action hero is all.

[jtav]

Shepard is one of two characters I despise. Toss in a dislike of the romance as written and a natural tendency toward non-canon shipping and it's safe to say that Shepard's irrelevant in my happy ending for Miranda.



Speaking of non-canon shipping, I have a bit of a problem. Several months ago, I wrote the first chapter of a Miranda/Thane story. It's a good story and something I'd like to continue working on for the days when the other story makes me want to throw things. The problem is LotSB rendered it not only AU, but somewhat painful. Miranda was fertile, but uninterested in children, and said s. There would have been considerable discussion of infertility/the genophage and Miranda was rather cold about the whole thing. Her infertility makes some lines that would have been innocuous cringeworthy, but accounting for it and the rest of the dossiers would require a substantial rethinking of the story. So what would you do?

[Jebel Krong]

i agree Miranda probably uses her intelligence more than her looks 99% of the time, particularly working for Cerberus. Actually being on the Normandy is a little out of her element - Shepard's role is far more combat-oriented than, even the extreme squad that he recruits, would normally see (exception: Grunt).