15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyvern]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i agree Miranda probably uses her intelligence more than her looks 99% of the time, particularly working for Cerberus. Actually being on the Normandy is a little out of her element - Shepard's role is far more combat-oriented than, even the extreme squad that he recruits, would normally see (exception: Grunt).

Why would Grunt be an exception? I can see the similarities in that they are both genetically engineered by their "fathers" to serve a specific purpose, but character-wise, I find it realy hard to imagine a conversation between them. Grunt is all about raw power and forward momentum, while I keep thinking about what Miranda says in her character video "I have no patience for incompetence, recklessness or heroes." She'd probably think Grunt too reckless.

I agree with you that being an XO on the Normandy is probably a little out of her element. Logistics and administration is probably somewhat similar no matter where. But too bad we don't actually get a chance to see her issue commands as a ship officer in Shepard's absence. And while she performs admirably in combat situations, (she's my permanent squadmate), sometimes I can imagine her grumbling when my Shepard tells her they're going in again. "Again? But I'm not done with these docking permits! And I've got holes in my outfit from the last firefight. Pick somebody else!"

[snfonseka]

Aedan1992 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

It's outright amazing how much the idea of a woman having lots of sex seems to bother some people. Bet you'd all react differently if it had been a man I was talking about. ******* double standard! Reminds me of the debate we had in the second thread where some people were unable to accept that you won't become a woman like Miranda without actually....having sex.

Also note that Miranda likely has had no fixed workplace for most of her life after she ran away from her father and that she's traveled extensively, so it's perfectly possible she'd have been a woman with "a lover in every port" before Lazarus, especially since she's not been willing to emotionally commit to anyone before Shepard. I don't know why people don't like that image - I find it interesting and use it as a background in my fanfic, and consider it neither implausible nor ooc.

I'm not saying that she never had sex in her life in fact it would be too unrealtistic and i don't have any problem with it, but just because she enjoys sex doesn't  mean she has been sleeping with hundered's of men. She is not a nyphomaniac. She is someone who can keep it in control even if she is longing for sex.  

"lock and key" concept:

There is a room in a hotel and the lock of this door can be open using any key. Then we call that lock as a "bad lock".
There is a key in this hotel and that can be used to open any door lock. Then we call that key as the "master key".

As "Ieldra2" mention this is the way we normaly look at this "sex" issue.

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i agree Miranda probably uses her intelligence more than her looks 99% of the time, particularly working for Cerberus. Actually being on the Normandy is a little out of her element - Shepard's role is far more combat-oriented than, even the extreme squad that he recruits, would normally see (exception: Grunt).

Why would Grunt be an exception? I can see the similarities in that they are both genetically engineered by their "fathers" to serve a specific purpose, but character-wise, I find it realy hard to imagine a conversation between them. Grunt is all about raw power and forward momentum, while I keep thinking about what Miranda says in her character video "I have no patience for incompetence, recklessness or heroes." She'd probably think Grunt too reckless.

I agree with you that being an XO on the Normandy is probably a little out of her element. Logistics and administration is probably somewhat similar no matter where. But too bad we don't actually get a chance to see her issue commands as a ship officer in Shepard's absence. And while she performs admirably in combat situations, (she's my permanent squadmate), sometimes I can imagine her grumbling when my Shepard tells her they're going in again. "Again? But I'm not done with these docking permits! And I've got holes in my outfit from the last firefight. Pick somebody else!"

no i meant grunt is the exception regarding combat - krogans basically living for it, after all... 

and yeah being as i generally take her most places i could see 3rd in command running the ship most of the time - finally Jacob has a purpose!! 

edit: remember the old start trek: TNG episodes where riker would stop picard beaming down to plough the slave girls/watch the redshirt die? can't imagine Miranda doing that to shepard can you - he'd be ploughing her whilst the redshirt'd be dying...!

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:53 .

[enayasoul]

I think, if I had my way, my maleshep would be having lots of sex with Miranda "off duty"... their relationship is new and fresh and begging to be explored intimately

[Ieldra]

snfonseka wrote...
As "Ieldra2" mention this is the way we normaly look at this "sex" issue.

Actually, no, I did not say that. You said that. I hate this analogy and would never give the meme a chance to replicate. I ask you not to repeat it here since there are more of us who find it objectionable.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2010 - 03:46 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Shepard is one of two characters I despise.

Isn't that a bit harsh? At least you can shape Shepard somewhat...

Speaking of non-canon shipping, I have a bit of a problem. Several months ago, I wrote the first chapter of a Miranda/Thane story. It's a good story and something I'd like to continue working on for the days when the other story makes me want to throw things. The problem is LotSB rendered it not only AU, but somewhat painful. Miranda was fertile, but uninterested in children, and said s. There would have been considerable discussion of infertility/the genophage and Miranda was rather cold about the whole thing. Her infertility makes some lines that would have been innocuous cringeworthy, but accounting for it and the rest of the dossiers would require a substantial rethinking of the story. So what would you do?

Add an author's note that when your story takes place, Miranda's infertility is not known. Or put a reference somewhere into the story that places it somewhere in the timeline, so that the reader can infer that. Would that work?

[jtav]

Thanks Ieldra. I've warmed up to Garrus considerably so anything's possible, even a fondness for Shepard.



I think it's safe to say Miranda's dossier did not go over well here. So, what would you have written if you'd been tasked with creating her dossier? Both the humorous and serious entry.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Thanks Ieldra. I've warmed up to Garrus considerably so anything's possible, even a fondness for Shepard.

Garrus? You? Miracles do happen....  Next you'll be telling us you'll try his romance....

I think it's safe to say Miranda's dossier did not go over well here. So, what would you have written if you'd been tasked with creating her dossier? Both the humorous and serious entry.

Her dossier would contain:
(1) A copy of a letter from an old lover who just can't let her go, written in an embarrassing overly flowery style and hinting at things - maybe somewhat unusual sexual practices - Miranda would rather keep hidden.  
(2) Some form of communication with Oriana - the chat we have is actually nice, though I'd make Oriana sound less like a 15-year-old and more like a 19-year-old. That would require a slightly different way to approach the same topic - maybe they'd take about a boyfriend she has.  

For the serious part, nothing comes to mind now that isn't either *too* serious or has canon problems.

[jtav]

Ha! I did Garrus' romance months ago. Before Thane's. Maybe I should try again now that I'm fond of him. His dossier did wonders for me.

As for Miranda's, I think I'd give her a fondness for classic cars and detail the ridiculous amount if work she's put into restoring it. For the serious entry, I'd include one of three things:
1. Her last letter to Niket, telling him about Oriana and making it clear he's her only friend.
2. A medical report noting that she has migraines/chronic pain because of her implants but doesn't take pain medication because of the side effects.
3. Something that reveals why she ran away.

[fongiel24]

Do you guys realize you've just had a heated debate about sex that spanned four pages? Ah well, since someone already opened Pandora's Box (again), I might as well as add my two cents.

I don't think Miranda shows a preference towards using her intelligence in the field. I think Miranda is a supercompetent field operative who uses whatever tool will work best. She's like a Swiss Army knife (only she's a jack of all trades, master of all, not master of none like a Swiss Army Knife is). Whether the job requires that she hack her way in, fight her way in, sneak her way in, or sleep her way in, Miranda is capable of it. That is why she is one of TIM's top agents.

Regarding sex, I think we're overemphasizing Miranda's pickiness. She has unusually high standards when it comes to picking partners for serious relationship, but I think for casual hookups her standards would be a lot more pragmatics - relatively good-looking, intelligent enough to hold a conversation, looks like he (or she) knows what they're doing, and knows enough not to ask her too many questions or expect a purely physical relationship to go any further. If I had to guess as to numbers, I'd venture 1-2 hookups per month, depending on how hectic her work is. I don't think Miranda would just hook up with random guys, but rather has "regulars". This would cut down on the risks of casual sex (creeps or guys who don't know what they're doing) as well as reduce the risk of her compromising Cerberus. Number of partners - I'd say significantly higher than the average now, slightly higher than the average in the future.

jtav wrote...

I think it's safe to say Miranda's dossier did not go over well here.
So, what would you have written if you'd been tasked with creating her
dossier? Both the humorous and serious entry.

1. Something like Mordin's mission transcripts. I want to see Miranda-the-femme-fatale in action. This would also include a list of other possible Miranda sightings (emphasizing that Cerberus is a secretive organization that is difficult for even the Shadow Broker to crack).

2. More Miranda/Oriana.

3. Something from Miranda's past showing a hidden soft side. It could be an embarassing moment from her past, or a peculiar hobby people wouldn't expect, tax records showing she donates heavily to a particular charitable cause, etc.

jtav wrote...

As for Miranda's, I think I'd give her a fondness for classic cars and
detail the ridiculous amount if work she's put into restoring it.

So she's like a ME Jay Leno ? This would definitely fall in the category of a hobby you wouldn't expect, although my idea of Miranda is that she's a crotch rocket girl. Maybe they could include a list of attempted traffic stops and unanswered tickets from Illium law enforcement.

Modifié par fongiel24, 07 octobre 2010 - 09:47 .

[t3HPrO]

I'd put in:

1. What fongiel24 said(the femme fatale one)

2. More Miranda/Oriana interaction

3. Miranda's hobby of painting erotic nudes. THAT would be awkward, especially if she did one on Shepard.

4. Purchase transcripts of Miranda buying...stuff that women use to make themselves happy...from Morlan's sex shop.

5. Records showing that she's the star donor to a few orphanages.

6. More background on why she ran and who she actually is.



Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda, who's a high level operative and thus should have extremely high security on her exnet account, has the most intercepted amount of messages? And jtav, I don't think that Miranda gets migraines or chronic pain from her implants as they're a much more adavnced model than Kaidan's L2s. And by the L3s, migraines and other discomforts were already under control. Oh and Miranda would still be fertile. Cheap shot bioware. Cheap shot.

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

I don't think she had any real lovers prior to Jacob and Shepard...trust issues. Also, she should've made it abundantly clear to the dude that it's a one nighter, nothing more.



And I like the notion of Miranda being a serial speedster. Also, for the serious part, I'd put in a transcript of her talking to a shrink to deal with her making her first kill on the job and her trauma at doing so.

[jtav]

Miranda having chronic pain issues was actually one of my pet theories before LotSB. Usually I cleared it up around 2183 with the L4s, but she would have still lived with it for most of her adult life. It served the same humanizing/relatability role as the infertility. I wish I could have kept it.

[t3HPrO]

I don't know. It seems like we're trying to bring her down to our level of 'normalcy'. Or maybe you could do one about Miranda having a few broken ribs and a broken ankle due to a mission gone wrong, and how some of the ribs still plague her occasionally.

[fongiel24]

Broken ribs don't cause recurring pain. It's not like tearing your ACL. I still feel something in my knee on occasion, but my ribs went back to normal as soon as they were fully healed. Ribs aren't joints, meaning as long as you don't move around too much while they're healing, they heal quite easily.

[t3HPrO]

Yeah, but what if they didn't heal properly? That's what I'm trying to get at.

[jtav]

It doesn't matter now. The infertility serves the same function. Before all this, I would have said she didn't want children. I only resent that the dossier has made a particular story awkward because of Miranda referring to Shep as the closest thing to a son she'd ever have and an almost touching faith in the power of modern medicine.

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...

Do you guys realize you've just had a heated debate about sex that spanned four pages? Ah well, since someone already opened Pandora's Box (again), I might as well as add my two cents.

I don't think Miranda shows a preference towards using her intelligence in the field. I think Miranda is a supercompetent field operative who uses whatever tool will work best. She's like a Swiss Army knife (only she's a jack of all trades, master of all, not master of none like a Swiss Army Knife is). Whether the job requires that she hack her way in, fight her way in, sneak her way in, or sleep her way in, Miranda is capable of it. That is why she is one of TIM's top agents.

Regarding sex, I think we're overemphasizing Miranda's pickiness. She has unusually high standards when it comes to picking partners for serious relationship, but I think for casual hookups her standards would be a lot more pragmatics - relatively good-looking, intelligent enough to hold a conversation, looks like he (or she) knows what they're doing, and knows enough not to ask her too many questions or expect a purely physical relationship to go any further. If I had to guess as to numbers, I'd venture 1-2 hookups per month, depending on how hectic her work is. I don't think Miranda would just hook up with random guys, but rather has "regulars". This would cut down on the risks of casual sex (creeps or guys who don't know what they're doing) as well as reduce the risk of her compromising Cerberus. Number of partners - I'd say significantly higher than the average now, slightly higher than the average in the future.

Don't forget medical histories too. I'm actually agreeable to that sans the exact frequency about how many hook ups. (don't really that care much) But her "regulars" can't be too regular either. Something like that would end up leaving a blazing trail, especially if she lets a bit here and there and someone pieces the puzzles together. Regular also falls into the danger of becoming engaged emotionally. 

I hope I don't open the floodgates by answering you, just want to make my point about the "regular" part. *looks around furtively* 

I like some of the suggested dossiers you guys come up with. Although, apart from some minor gripe about her handle in her dating dossier, I actually don't have much trouble with it (stereotypical handling aside, but I can close an eye to that). Loved the Oriana one. The medical one I'll have to wait for ME3 to see how it is resolved,  but right now I'll reserve judgement partially because it brought her sympathy from non-fans and I do want Miri to be more well-liked.

[Aedan_Cousland]

I like her dossier as it is.

Right now I just look at it as if Miranda was hooking up with people online for pleasure only, and the news that she is infertile is not linked to any attempt to get pregnant through random hookups. If however someone from Bioware decides to clarify the info in her dossier a bit, and confirms that Miranda was trying to get pregnant while on a suicide mission, my opinion will change. It will go from one of the better dossiers to the worst, for being so poorly thought out.

[Elyvern]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I like her dossier as it is.

Right now I just look at it as if Miranda was hooking up with people online for pleasure only, and the news that she is infertile is not linked to any attempt to get pregnant through random hookups. If however someone from Bioware decides to clarify the info in her dossier a bit, and confirms that Miranda was trying to get pregnant while on a suicide mission, my opinion will change. It will go from one of the better dossiers to the worst, for being so poorly thought out.

^ Yes, this would irk me to no end too and derail her character, imo.

Modifié par Elyvern, 07 octobre 2010 - 11:28 .

[snfonseka]

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
As "Ieldra2" mention this is the way we normaly look at this "sex" issue.

Actually, no, I did not say that. You said that. I hate this analogy and would never give the meme a chance to replicate. I ask you not to repeat it here since there are more of us who find it objectionable.

Looks like you got the wrong idea . When I said,  "As "Ieldra2" mention this is the way we normaly look at this "sex" issue." I refered to "It's outright amazing how much the idea of a woman having lots of sex
seems to bother some people. Bet you'd all react differently if it had
been a man I was talking about. ******* double standard!". If I am not mistaken by reading that comment the idea you try to express is "people treat differenty for males and females regarding sex". If that is not the idea you have tried to mention, I apologise for misunderstanding :innocent:.

And no need to get offended, because I mention that to express the way that most of people think and to not to state that it is a correct way of thinking.

[Ieldra]

@snfonseka:
You understood my quoted text correctly but
(1) The analogy you used to paraphrase me is not equivalent to what I said.
(2) Using that analogy sounds like an endorsement

I could say more, but that would get off-topic. If you want to discuss the double standard further, maybe we can take this to a group discussion.

To get back to Miranda: for some reason, I find her extremely attractive in this screenshot - perhaps because it's one of the few ones where you can almost see her moving:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 octobre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Arijharn]

So what sort of evolution do people want to see come ME3 in their characters relationship with Miranda? I'm not sure honestly but I can tell you what I don't want to see:

- Miranda and Shep settling down
- Shephard eclipsing and surpassing Miranda (more of a sharing I guess in personality strength, although not in the same way)
- Miranda and Shep splitting up
- Oriana dying (if anything could break Miranda; this would be it imo)
- Shephard not dealing with his own pass, and Miranda not helping him (I'm sick of being basically the one to which the world revolves... well, not 'sick' insomuch as I want a bit of variety)
- The Reapers winning (ha! just had to put that in... although I think it would actually be awesome if you stuffed up something in ME3 that could have this result as a flow on effect... sorta like how if you didn't prepare for the SM it actually becomes a SM)

Hmm, I can't think of anything else I'm patently against :S Maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough! (And I'm too busy watching the last episode of Chuck)

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'm quoting you just to double up on the awesome Miranda pic (which I have been absolutely negligent on posting myself, but that is unlikely to change... ever)

However, is it just me that gets bothered by this cutscene in that it's obviously tailored for depth of view to the camera, because the guard railing on Tuchanka's landing point is blatantly poking up from inside the Kodiak. This isn't the only cut-scene like this of course, but I can't help but be bothered by it!

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
Do you guys realize you've just had a heated debate about sex that spanned four pages? Ah well, since someone already opened Pandora's Box (again), I might as well as add my two cents.

Funny, isn't it? Almost like a grenade. Toss "Miranda" and "sex" into the thread and it explodes in a flurry of furious posting. 

I don't think Miranda shows a preference towards using her intelligence in the field. I think Miranda is a supercompetent field operative who uses whatever tool will work best. She's like a Swiss Army knife (only she's a jack of all trades, master of all, not master of none like a Swiss Army Knife is). Whether the job requires that she hack her way in, fight her way in, sneak her way in, or sleep her way in, Miranda is capable of it. That is why she is one of TIM's top agents.

Your and my version of Miranda seem well aligned. Agree 100%.

Regarding sex, I think we're overemphasizing Miranda's pickiness. She has unusually high standards when it comes to picking partners for serious relationship, but I think for casual hookups her standards would be a lot more pragmatics - relatively good-looking, intelligent enough to hold a conversation, looks like he (or she) knows what they're doing, and knows enough not to ask her too many questions or expect a purely physical relationship to go any further. If I had to guess as to numbers, I'd venture 1-2 hookups per month, depending on how hectic her work is. I don't think Miranda would just hook up with random guys, but rather has "regulars". This would cut down on the risks of casual sex (creeps or guys who don't know what they're doing) as well as reduce the risk of her compromising Cerberus. Number of partners - I'd say significantly higher than the average now, slightly higher than the average in the future.

I wouldn't try to fix numbers, but I agree with your reasoning. "Regulars"...hmm. As a tendency, yes, but  not too much so for reasons already mentioned. My guess would be that some of her contacts are a little more than just that. "Contacts with benefits", so to speak. That would incur little additional security risk.

So she's like a ME Jay Leno ? This would definitely fall in the category of a hobby you wouldn't expect, although my idea of Miranda is that she's a crotch rocket girl. Maybe they could include a list of attempted traffic stops and unanswered tickets from Illium law enforcement.

As I read this, I find it's surprisingly easy to imagine Miranda in her loyalty outfit on a tuned-up motorcycle. I wonder if these things still exist in the ME universe.