15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

A few observations playing a Paragon Sole Survivor who dislikes her:
*Miranda is wrong about having no sense of humor. She has a very dry, acerbic wit and something of a tendency for gallows humor. I'm not sure why she thinks she isn't funny.
*It's clear the death of her staff really bothers her from her delivery of "A lot of people lost their lives on that station..." She isn't going to cry about it, but she is clearly furious. They were her staff and she feels a measure of responsibility for them.
*Not sure why this popped into my head, but I don't think she'd have a problem with Kahoku's murder. If one nosy admiral has to be murdered to keep security intact, so be it. I think the only ME projects she'd have had a problem with are Akuze and Chasca.

[Giggles_Manically]

She may have an issue with Overlord after the Suicide Mission.



So quick question can I post some Miranda pics, or is that image spam on this thread?

[LuxDragon]

Post away. If you look at the last 284 pages (almost) at least 1 pic was posted per page.

[Giggles_Manically]

It will have to wait till tomorrow the net is slow late at night.



I do keep laughing though because my friend is trying to make a Tom Selleck Shepard to romance Miranda, yet none of the mustaches are good enough.

[Aedan1992]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
However what do you think weighs no Miranda more:
Killing Niket, or watching him die? Either way she takes it fairly poorly.

Killing Niket. She feels the need to justify it afterwards. However, it's not that bad, so most of the time I let her shoot him anyway, because I think Shepard does not have the right to physically interrupt her. 

Ieldra no offence, but i don'understand why shepard has no right to interupt her. He is stopping her for something she is going to regret. She even thanks you for stopping her afterwards. So this is a point that doesn't make any sense at all.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
However what do you think weighs no Miranda more:
Killing Niket, or watching him die? Either way she takes it fairly poorly.

Killing Niket. She feels the need to justify it afterwards. However, it's not that bad, so most of the time I let her shoot him anyway, because I think Shepard does not have the right to physically interrupt her. 

Ieldra no offence, but i don'understand why shepard has no right to interupt her. He is stopping her for something she is going to regret. She even thanks you for stopping her afterwards. So this is a point that doesn't make any sense at all.

Conversation excerpt Renegade/Neutral:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: I know it hurts that he's gone. But at least you don't have his death on your conscience.
Miranda: No... I blame my father for that. Even now he's finding ways to screw with my life.

Conversation excerpt Paragon:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: You still cared for him, even if he betrayed you.
Miranda: You're right. And my father knew it. He used that against me.

How does that translate into "thanking you for stopping her"? I can't see anything of the sort. She only agrees she still cared for him, not that she would have regretted it. Also, if she actually kills Niket, it bothers her, yes, but I can't see any regret except for the necessity of killing him. As for the interrupt, it's more the style that bothers me - I would ask her to reconsider, but not physically interrupt her. I can try to influence her, but I do not have the right to take her decision away from her in this very personal matter. BTW, I'd apply the same reasoning to someone trying to kill himself.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:17 .

[Aedan1992]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
However what do you think weighs no Miranda more:
Killing Niket, or watching him die? Either way she takes it fairly poorly.

Killing Niket. She feels the need to justify it afterwards. However, it's not that bad, so most of the time I let her shoot him anyway, because I think Shepard does not have the right to physically interrupt her. 

Ieldra no offence, but i don'understand why shepard has no right to interupt her. He is stopping her for something she is going to regret. She even thanks you for stopping her afterwards. So this is a point that doesn't make any sense at all.

Conversation excerpt Renegade/Neutral:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: I know it hurts that he's gone. But at least you don't have his death on your conscience.
Miranda: No... I blame my father for that. Even now he's finding ways to screw with my life.

Conversation excerpt Paragon:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: You still cared for him, even if he betrayed you.
Miranda: You're right. And my father knew it. He used that against me.

How does that translate into "thanking you for stopping her"? I can't see anything of the sort. She only agrees she still cared for him, not that she would have regretted it. Also, if she actually kills Niket, it bothers her, yes, but I can't see any regret except for the necessity of killing him. As for the interrupt, it's more the style that bothers me - I would ask her to reconsider, but not physically interrupt her. I can try to influence her, but I do not have the right to take her decision away from her in this very personal matter. BTW, I'd apply the same reasoning to someone trying to kill himself.

If you speak to her on board the normandy she thanks you for stopping her and that she is glad that niket tryed to redeem himself.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
However what do you think weighs no Miranda more:
Killing Niket, or watching him die? Either way she takes it fairly poorly.

Killing Niket. She feels the need to justify it afterwards. However, it's not that bad, so most of the time I let her shoot him anyway, because I think Shepard does not have the right to physically interrupt her. 

Ieldra no offence, but i don'understand why shepard has no right to interupt her. He is stopping her for something she is going to regret. She even thanks you for stopping her afterwards. So this is a point that doesn't make any sense at all.

Conversation excerpt Renegade/Neutral:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: I know it hurts that he's gone. But at least you don't have his death on your conscience.
Miranda: No... I blame my father for that. Even now he's finding ways to screw with my life.

Conversation excerpt Paragon:
Miranda: Why didn't you let me kill him? I could have handled that. But watching him get gunned down by that asari ****...
Shepard: You still cared for him, even if he betrayed you.
Miranda: You're right. And my father knew it. He used that against me.

How does that translate into "thanking you for stopping her"? I can't see anything of the sort. She only agrees she still cared for him, not that she would have regretted it. Also, if she actually kills Niket, it bothers her, yes, but I can't see any regret except for the necessity of killing him. As for the interrupt, it's more the style that bothers me - I would ask her to reconsider, but not physically interrupt her. I can try to influence her, but I do not have the right to take her decision away from her in this very personal matter. BTW, I'd apply the same reasoning to someone trying to kill himself.

Miranda: I'm glad Niket tried to redeem himself... for what good it did. Thank you for stopping me, Commander.

I agree with Aedan1992.

[Ieldra]

OK, I stand corrected. But if you let Miranda kill him, it has also been the right decision:

Miranda: And you proved yourself trustworthy... unlike Niket. I'm glad I got to take him out myself.
Shepard: Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself?
Miranda: I would've liked to convince Niket.
Miranda: I still don't know why he betrayed me. I... regret that it came to that. But I did what I had to do.

Note that she doesn't agree to Shepard's implication she only tries to convince herself. It seems whatever we do turns out more or less right. I also maintain my argument about not having the right to physically interrupt her in that situation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:43 .

[Aedan1992]

As for how the style is. I don't think shepard could have stopped her if he just stood there and said "Miranda wait you don't want to do this" She would most likely have said screw you shepard this is my decision" and would have shot niket anyway. So i don't even mind the style at all.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...
As for how the style is. I don't think shepard could have stopped her if he just stood there and said "Miranda wait you don't want to do this" She would most likely have said screw you shepard this is my decision" and would have shot niket anyway. So i don't even mind the style at all.

She'd be right. It *is* her decision. That's exactly the point.

BTW, the reasons Shepard gives for sparing him afterwards, about he could still be useful, are complete nonsense.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Aedan1992]

Althought its her decision she is still going to kill her best friend. Revenge isn't everything.

[Caihn]

He had no choice : he had to physically interrupt her because she was going to shoot and he would have not succeed to interrupt her only with words.

Then Shepard doesn't give Miranda the order to not kill Nicket, so if she really wanted to kill him she would have kill him.

And yes, if you let Miranda kill Nicket she also thanks Shepard on the Normandy. But the fact is she doesn't know Nicket wanted to redeem himself.

So, to me, interrupting Miranda was the right decision.

[Aedan1992]

It would not have been a paragorn interupt if it is not a right decision.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
And yes, if you let Miranda kill Nicket she also thanks Shepard on the Normandy. But the fact is she doesn't know Nicket wanted to redeem himself.

You don't know that. That's just an interpretation after the fact, and not even a particularly convincing one. 

BTW, I actually agree that with foreknowledge, interrupting her is the better decision. But you don't have that foreknowledge in the situation. It depends on your speculation about how this will affect Miranda, your belief about whether killing Niket is necessary and about having the right to take her decision away from her.

@Aedan1992:
Don't get me started on that. Please.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:02 .

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
And yes, if you let Miranda kill Nicket she also thanks Shepard on the Normandy. But the fact is she doesn't know Nicket wanted to redeem himself.

You don't know that. That's just an interpretation after the fact, and not even a particularly convincing one. 

This is not interpretation, this is facts.

Miranda decides to spare Nicket if she knows he will help her.

Shepard: Miranda, wait! You don't want to do this.
Miranda: This has to end here, Shepard. My father will keep trying to find Oriana.
Shepard: Maybe Niket can help... talk to your father. Just say you got here first...
Niket: I'll... I'll tell him that you hid her. That I don't know where she is.
Miranda: I never want to see you again, Nik-


If she knew this before, she wouldn't have try to kill him.

[Arijharn]

The idea though is that how Shephard stopped Miranda was quite frankly ridiculous if not honestly plain stupid. He goes to grab Miranda's weapon leaving only the 3rd squad member to effectively guard against Erinyala or whatever her name is in addition to the rest of the Eclipse mercs.

You would think though that because Miranda is a professional she would obey Shephard's command if he told her to hold fire.

[Aedan1992]

Enyala would only shoot them if they started. Or if it would work in her favor.

[Caihn]

Wish she could do this during combat 

 

Modifié par Yannkee, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:56 .

[Aedan1992]

 Shepard could have shoot her:P Btw Yank how do you make screenshots from such angle? I can't remember that this scene was from this angle.

[Arijharn]

It's a fraction of a second before she hits her with Throw, but it was in the scene

[Caihn]

The scene is very short. I was lucky when I made this screenshot.

[fongiel24]

With the benefit of hindsight, I think it's pretty difficult to argue that Miranda was better off shooting Niket but unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20 as the saying goes.

In the moment, I think Shepard would have been better off interjecting into Miranda and Niket's exchange verbally and I really do believe this would have been enough to at least get Miranda to hold off on opening fire for a moment. This is clearly a very emotional situation for Miranda, but she's not Jack. As Arijahrn notes, she's a professional who's likely received training and has experience keeping her emotions in check when needed. I think Miranda could likely keep her cool long enough for Shepard to question Niket and provide other options.

If you listen to Miranda's voice when she's about to shoot Niket, it's calm and clinical rather than hysterical or emotional. She's clearly angry at Niket, but she's shooting him for practical reasons - she believes he's a loose end.

Aedan1992 wrote...

Enyala would only shoot them if they started. Or if it would work in her favor.

Shooting the third squadmate does work in her favour if Shepard grabs Miranda's gun arm. Taking out Miranda and whoever's with her is a smart move.

Enyala should realize that even if she escapes with Oriana, Miranda will pursue her to the edge of the galaxy to recover Oriana and take vengeance. With Shepard, Miranda, and the third squadmate training their weapons on her however, the chances of her being able to get a shot off without being gunned down herself are slim. As soon as Shepard grabs Miranda's arm, she can take out the third squadmate, beat a hasty retreat to nearby cover, then use her superior numbers to overcome Shepard and Miranda. Shepard's interrupt was a really dumb move.

Yannkee wrote...

Wish she could do this during combat [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

 

This would have made an awesome loyalty power. Take the first part of Slam where she lifts up the target, but instead of throwing it to the ground, pitch it in the air like a clay pigeon.

Edit: Anybody else notice the asari dock worker on the right? Didn't Enyala blast her with a Claymore at the beginning of the scene?

Modifié par fongiel24, 09 octobre 2010 - 09:20 .

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
And yes, if you let Miranda kill Nicket she also thanks Shepard on the Normandy. But the fact is she doesn't know Nicket wanted to redeem himself.

You don't know that. That's just an interpretation after the fact, and not even a particularly convincing one. 

This is not interpretation, this is facts.

Miranda decides to spare Nicket if she knows he will help her.

Shepard: Miranda, wait! You don't want to do this.
Miranda: This has to end here, Shepard. My father will keep trying to find Oriana.
Shepard: Maybe Niket can help... talk to your father. Just say you got here first...
Niket: I'll... I'll tell him that you hid her. That I don't know where she is.
Miranda: I never want to see you again, Nik-


If she knew this before, she wouldn't have try to kill him.

You believe what Niket says with a gun pointed at his head, knowing that if he says the wrong thing he'll die? That's taking a lot on faith, if you ask me.

[LuxDragon]

Thus, proving how much of a gray area some decisions are. BioWare, BioWare... how do you do this?

As for Shepard, the reasons he gave were spur of the moment, but he didn't have time to think. For all intents and purposes, Miranda was about to shoot a unarmed civilian. Cold-blooded murder in fact, since he didn't actually 'do' anything yet. It was a personal issue with a personal decision that may or may not have clouded her judgement. A right and wrong decision really isn't found here.

Although, in my game, I chose to save Miranda. (Interpret that as you will)