15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

The interrupt should have been a Charm check. He isn't her keeper and had no right to physically make the decision for her. A verbal command should have sufficed. If not, she'd have to live with her decision.

[Aedan1992]

Shepard had every right to stop her. First he saves her from something she is going to regret. Second he is a specter, it is his job to protect people. Third Niket was unarmed, there is no excues for killing an unarmed men. And last why would you not stop her. why would you give miri the burden for killing the only friend she had in her life.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...
Shepard had every right to stop her. First he saves her from something she is going to regret.

You do not know that.

Second he is a specter, it is his job to protect people.

No. His job is to protect the status quo of Citadel civilization.

Third Niket was unarmed, there is no excues for killing an unarmed men.

Yes there is: he betrayed Miranda once, who's to say he won't do it again once you let him go?

And last why would you not stop her. why would you give miri the burden for killing the only friend she had in her life.

She gives herself the burden, not you. You can ask if that's what she wants, you can tell her she'll regret it, but in the end Miranda know what she's doing. She is also not callous, she knows killing people will sometimes burden her conscience. But still she does it. If you interrupt her physically then you're not respecting her right to make her own decision in this.

Look, I don't say letting her kill NIket is The Correct Decision ™. But it is a valid one.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 02:05 .

[Arijharn]

I'll say it for you Ieldra

Letting her kill Niket is The Correct Decision ™ because the way you prevent her was quite honestly tactically stupid, as in, just because you're a Spectre doesn't automatically mean you're bulletproof. There was nothing (other than gameplay reasons) that prevented Erinyla (rargh, I can't actually remember her name despite the fact it's probably been posted like 5 times since I last posted myself) from pulling her trigger and wasting you and or Miranda in one or two shots, and you're 3rd squaddie can't actually cover you while you're standing in the open like you were...



Having said that, up until recently I do save Niket, but I think letting Miranda kill him is the best decision if I refuse to meta-game my responses.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...
Shepard had every right to stop her. First he saves her from something she is going to regret.

You do not know that.

Second he is a specter, it is his job to protect people.

No. His job is to protect the status quo of Citadel civilization.

Third Niket was unarmed, there is no excues for killing an unarmed men.

Yes there is: he betrayed Miranda once, who's to say he won't do it again once you let him go?

And last why would you not stop her. why would you give miri the burden for killing the only friend she had in her life.

She gives herself the burden, not you. You can ask if that's what she wants, you can tell her she'll regret it, but in the end Miranda know what she's doing. She is also not callous, she knows killing people will sometimes burden her conscience. But still she does it. If you interrupt her physically then you're not respecting her right to make her own decision in this.

Look, I don't say letting her kill NIket is The Correct Decision ™. But it is a valid one.

I don't agree : he has the right to interrupt her (physically or not). He ONLY interrupts her, he doesn't give the order to spare Nicket. So if she really wanted to kill him she could do it after. Miranda is still the one who decide if Niket must live or not.
I consider Shepard grab her gun because he is not sure he could have time to say to Miranda what he has to say, before she shoots.

Modifié par Yannkee, 09 octobre 2010 - 02:18 .

[jtav]

The last point is, I think, the important one. She has the right to make her own decision this. It's part of being a grown up. Shepard should have limited himself for asking her if she was sure she wanted to do this and perhaps trying to convince her not to. And, well, what's to prevent Niket from going to her father later? He's not sorry for what he did. He's sorry he got caught. The choice should have ultimately rested with Miranda. She knows best what her conscience can bear.

[Caihn]

Shepard: Miranda, wait! You don't want to do this. -> SHEPARD INTERRUPTS MIRANDA

Miranda: This has to end here, Shepard. My father will keep trying to find Oriana. -> MIRANDA STILL WANT TO KILL NICKET

Shepard: Maybe Niket can help... talk to your father. Just say you got here first... -> SHEPARD TRY TO CONVINCE MIRANDA

Niket: I'll... I'll tell him that you hid her. That I don't know where she is. -> NICKET WANTS TO HELP

Miranda: I never want to see you again, Nik- -> MIRANDA DECIDES TO SPARE HIM (Miranda could have kill Nicket if she wanted to)  

Miranda is the one who decide to spare Nicket, not Shepard.

[Ieldra]

@Arijharn:

Enyala is the Eclipse captain in Miranda's LM. Erinya is the Baria Frontiers representative on Illium, the one you speak with for Shiala's problem.

[Ieldra]

@Yankee:
Yeah....after Shepard takes the decision away from her by grabbing her gun in the first place (let's not get into the tactical considerations). And we all know Shepard can convince anyone, bother...

You know, I imagine what I'd have Miranda do in response if you romance her. I'd have her revisit that problem later with Shepard and let her say something like this:

"OK, you were right. But if you do that again it will be the end between us."

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 octobre 2010 - 02:47 .

[jtav]

Let's say that Miranda got her child through whatever means. What kind of parent would she be? I think she'd be inclined to spoil the "miracle child" rotten. I think she'd be gone on business a lot though.

[Aedan1992]

I think she will give it as much love as she can since she never got that love from her father , but i don't think she will spoil her child and definatly not if she is in romance with shepard and he is the father.

I think she will invest more in her child than in business especially if she resign from cerberus (wich always happens in my playthough ^^).

Modifié par Aedan1992, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:02 .

[Ieldra]

Hmm...I thought I posted that screenshot two hours ago...







At this time, I have not much inclination to think about domestic scenarios. Only this: I don't think Miranda would fall into the opposite extreme of what she experienced as a child.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

Let's say that Miranda got her child through whatever means. What kind of parent would she be? I think she'd be inclined to spoil the "miracle child" rotten. I think she'd be gone on business a lot though.

Busy weekend! Finally got a iphone, now wondering if I should get ME: Galaxy, heh.

I think she'd be very much against subjecting her child to the kind of treatment she had herself, but she'd also push her kid to strive and go beyond given potential. How to balance both will be the big issue, given her already emotionally-distant personality. If she's aware of that fallacy and tries to fight the tendency to come off as a little cold, I still think the end-result will be her kid will probably grow up having a conflicted relationship with her.
 
Unless she's bent on having a child without a partner, I think we'd would probably need to take into account how her significant other's parental skills are. Whoever it is, I can't help but imagine she'd be the stick in the "carrot and stick" analogy, a stern parent who doesn't mind being casted in the bad light if it's for the eventual good of her child.
 
For some reason, when I imagine a Shep & Miranda pairing, I always think Shepard will end up dying early, and leaving her to raise their child or children alone.  Don't ask me why I think that way, I have no idea.

Edit: Thought about it. I suppose it's the awe I'd feel if she manages to live to her full lifespan of 200 years. Wow, imagine all she would've been through and done then. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe."

Modifié par Elyvern, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:25 .

[jtav]

The only partner I can imagine giving the kid anything resembling a normal life is Kaidan. Liara's the SB in her own right. A relationship with Thane is inherently infertile, he's dying, and Kolyat's a young adult. I can't see a relationship with Jacob lasting long enough for kids.

[Mr Plow]

'You have no idea how much you've changed her'


So says Liara at the end of LOTSB if Shepard and Miranda are together. 

I imagine that Miranda would a warmer person and would give her child uncondtional love and kindness she did not receive as a daughter.  Not to say being with Shepard turns her personality upside down but romancing her does change her in some positive ways. Liara sees it as does Kasumi

Modifié par Mr Plow, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:57 .

[Arijharn]

Miranda as a parent would be a red sand abuser and minigen x3 experimenter. She would live in a dingy dirty house with probably too many cats and needles everywhere. The child, if Miranda doesn't somehow misplace her and forgets about her, will grow up hating her and will probably accidentally kill either herself or Miranda while looking through Miranda's fishnet stocking drawer for something.



All of which I just said? Patently untrue. I agree with Mr. Plow.

[fongiel24]

I think Miranda would desperately want to be a good parent, but would ultimately have mixed results despite her best efforts. She just doesn't have very much experience with what good parenting should look like nor with close relationships. I think Miranda could end up actually alternating between spoiling her child and pushing them too hard, due to the conflict between her own perfectionism and her desire to give her child the childhood she never had. Miranda is capable of doing almost anything, but raising a child on her own isn't one of them IMO.

[jtav]

I think she probably *could* do it alone in the sense that the kid wouldn't necessarily be a complete wreck, but I do think she'd have serious issues as a parent because of her own issues and she doesn't really have anyone who can model good parenting for her. At the same time, I don't want the cycle of abuse to repeat itself.



Just as a thought experiment, how would you feel about a story where Miranda's infertility has been successfully treated at some point in the backstory? Would she even seek treatment if she wasn't planning to have kids in the near future?

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Just as a thought experiment, how would you feel about a story where Miranda's infertility has been successfully treated at some point in the backstory? Would she even seek treatment if she wasn't planning to have kids in the near future?

Depending on the risk and how long it took her out of action for, I think Miranda would probably get her infertility fixed regardless of whether she was planning to have kids or not. Any neoplasm large enough and aggressive enough to cause infertility isn't something you want to just leave in your body, even if the doctors tell you it's harmless at the moment. If she was thinking that she might have kids in the longterm future, I think she'd definitely get it done.

[t3HPrO]

Arijharn wrote...

Miranda as a parent would be a red sand abuser and minigen x3 experimenter. She would live in a dingy dirty house with probably too many cats and needles everywhere. The child, if Miranda doesn't somehow misplace her and forgets about her, will grow up hating her and will probably accidentally kill either herself or Miranda while looking through Miranda's fishnet stocking drawer for something.

*Loads SCAR-H* *Takes aim and opens fire at Arjharn*

Bad way to make your point that Miranda'll be a good parent. And I agree with Mr. Plow. That aside, I think that she'd only want to have kids with Shepard, as I don't see her changing much from her ice-queen persona with other characters. In future chapters of my fic, Miranda is the stern mother who constantly pushes her kids to do their best in everything but loves them in her own (albeit awkward yet cute) way, but still spoils them all the time, while Shepard is the 'cool parent' who spoils the kids even more. Well, most of the time it's this way, but they occassionally switch up the roles. Also, due to Miranda's desire to be 'normal', she'll get herself cured. Rich heiresses (be they current or former, doesn't matter), have a way of getting what they want. Also, 'normal' women don't have tumors that result in infertility, do they? 'Nuff said.

[Arijharn]

/*hides behind some conveniently placed cover */
But come on, who would actually think that she would be a bad parent? In a Miranda thread of all places?

Modifié par Arijharn, 10 octobre 2010 - 03:50 .

[t3HPrO]

True, but I was referring to sarcasm fail. And yes, I have no doubt Miranda would be an amazing parent.

[Arijharn]

It wasn't sarcasm fail!You knew it was sarcasm!



Although, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit... but I never argued I was witty in the first place!

[t3HPrO]

@Arijharn

Mentalist reference there huh?

[Arijharn]

Not that I know of, it is a famous saying though, or I thought it was at least.