15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Aedan1992 wrote...

jtav wrote...

They can. Believe me they can.

As long as they don't kill miranda in ME 3, i can't think how they could make it worst.

I'm afraid they'd turn her into another unsatisfied career woman who just wants babies.

Maybe my priorities are skewed because of my feelings on the romance.

[jtav]

Elyvern, I think "forget" was a euphemism for "nasty salary dispute/schedule conflict/other reason she wouldn't be available.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

Elyvern, I think "forget" was a euphemism for "nasty salary dispute/schedule conflict/other reason she wouldn't be available.

I know. But the first thing I do with regards to talents is to seal a contract with obligations to return, and penalties for not doing so. Salaries can be negotiated or fixed depending on the contractual clauses. Schedule conflicts can be worked around. The impression I get is Bioware likes Strahovski personally, and that can go a long way towards solving alot of potential problems.

Anyway, this is really beside the point. Any decisions involving Miranda's involvement and the eventual outcome of her story is likely to do with the storyline of ME3 and the amount of content Bioware can squeeze in the final game be it a matter of time constraints or size of the game.

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:43 .

[jtav]

I agree with you, Elyvern, and I don't think BW has it in for Miranda. The infertility seemed designed to make her more sympathetic and the reaction to the dating site says more about the players than her.

[Aedan1992]

I'm sure that if the shadow broker also had a dossier about shepard saying that he also used that dating site for sex, people would not complain about that.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I agree with you, Elyvern, and I don't think BW has it in for Miranda. The infertility seemed designed to make her more sympathetic and the reaction to the dating site says more about the players than her.

Yeah, I don't buy the personally gunning to bring her down approach. It's absolutely irrational. The sympathy effect is harder to discount, but I still hold that they needn't buy sympathy at the expense of damaging her potential as a LI. The dossier also has a self-defeating effect. Why make more people sympathetic to her but then at the same time potentially turn off people that romance her? Maybe writers can't think of a better way to create such a lasting impact when Miranda's specific background is taken into consideration, but putting so much thought into it should also make them realise what it means for her attractiveness as a LI and players that choose to romance her and legitimately want a happy ending with her. And we already have the dating dossiers that potentially do that, why add insult to injury?

The most obvious answer is it's temporary, and there is more we haven't seen. But of course, I can be wrong.

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Aedan1992]

 I think we should just accept the dossier's for what they are and hope that Bioware does not make things worse.<_<

[jtav]

The funny thing is, I had assumed before this that Miranda didn't want children. If that had been the reveal, would that change things for you?

[Aedan1992]

jtav wrote...

The funny thing is, I had assumed before this that Miranda didn't want children. If that had been the reveal, would that change things for you?

No, because children are not always needed for a happy ending. I also didn't saw miranda as the kind of women who would want children, but if she really wants them then it makes sense to me considering how she looks when she see that oriana is happy with her family.

Modifié par Aedan1992, 10 octobre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Mr Plow]

Miranda resigning from Cereberus and the potential consequences of that, specifically regarding Oriana - I wonder if ME3 will even address that. Probably not. I imagine my Shepard would have Liara keeping a close eye on Oriana

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

Honestly I was surprised at Miranda's choice to resign from Cerberus to be surprising not just because it just seemed to be a reversal to her otherwise pragmatic character in my opinion, but because she didn't even seem to consider the ramifications of her decision.
I mean, Cerberus was an organization that she felt she belonged too, she found meaning to her life amongst it and it even kept her and her sister safe (usually) from her father. She had trusted TIM in the past seemingly without question and she has probably been asked to do many tasks that may be considered somewhat morally ambiguous, but the Collector Base issue in and of itself is exactly as Legion stated; it's just data. Either way; her actions wouldn't be capable of bringing them back from the dead (*cough*).
This is what I want to see explored in far greater detail (or at least, in a sense of importance) than any issue involving her infertility.

I don't think feel the issue about her saying its a betrayal will be addressed. The line just feels is an absentminded throwaway on the part of the writers with no thought given to it. Depending on Shepard's decision, there are a number of squadmates that speak up for keeping it and then there is an even bigger number that speak up against it. You can't even say that there is a special significance in her saying those lines as a possible plot-thread to a bigger issue because they made it so everyone has to say something for or against the decision, and that was her line.

I agree that her decision to resign will have to be addressed in ME3, if not the reason for it, then the consequences of it. Because, really, if it isn't going to be explored, then why have her resign at the end of the game?

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Melra]

I don't understand what's wrong with her resignation and lines in that scene, nor do the writers, I think.

[jtav]

Mr Plow wrote...

Miranda resigning from Cereberus and the potential consequences of that, specifically regarding Oriana - I wonder if ME3 will even address that. Probably not. I imagine my Shepard would have Liara keeping a close eye on Oriana

Tangent here, but it occurs to me that the SB was right: she'd be an ideal recruit for the organization--as run by Liara. Liara wants to use the information network to do some good instead of accruing money and power. That would appeal to Miranda's need to use her gifts for a higher purpose. Miranda has exactly the sort of principled ruthlessnes and experience Liara needs in a top lieutenant, and Liara is powerful enough to protect Oriana. Taking off my shipper goggles, they canonically work well together and have a mutual respect.

And just something humorous. I'm reading The Diamond Age right now and one of the characters is named Miranda. Not much like ours though.

Modifié par jtav, 10 octobre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

Mr Plow wrote...

Miranda resigning from Cereberus and the potential consequences of that, specifically regarding Oriana - I wonder if ME3 will even address that. Probably not. I imagine my Shepard would have Liara keeping a close eye on Oriana

Tangent here, but it occurs to me that the SB was right: she'd be an ideal recruit for the organization--as run by Liara. Liara wants to use the information network to do some good instead of accruing money and power. That would appeal to Miranda's need to use her gifts for a higher purpose. Miranda has exactly the sort of principled ruthlessnes and experience Liara needs in a top lieutenant, and Liara is powerful enough to protect Oriana. Taking off my shipper goggles, they canonically work well together and have a mutual respect.

This would depend on Liara doing more than just information brokering as SB though, because an information broker is just well, an information broker. It's an occupation, although in Liara's case, she used it to attempt to ferret out the Yargh SB.

Post-Reapers, I think the biggest thing we need to establish about Miranda is would she widen her interest in advancing humanity to encompass something bigger? Joining Shepard to fight against the reapers doesn't count because we're talking about a possible-apocalyse here. When hell breaks loose, everyone is your friend. But after that, would she have a different take on non-human interests? Would she have worked enough with aliens to care about them and the plight of the galaxy at large? Because while she's not a xenophobe, her interest right now is still pretty much limited to humanity.

It's something I'm actually addressing in my fic: she actually comes to value aliens as good friends, and her agenda expands greatly to include alien causes and the good of the galaxy.

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

jtav wrote...

I hope it's not addressed with a throwaway line in the epilogue--"hey look she really can have kids"--and I don't really trust Bioware to handle it well. My own inclination if I were working on ME3 would be to leave it incurable, but also  have it be something she's dealt with. Fanfic's different because I don't have to write military sci-fi. The pairing  I'm doing is inherently infertile, but it might be narratively useful to fix her infertility (well, that and I wrote the first chapter before LotSB came out and already know what issues I'm giving her)

Of course there is a tradeoff in that too much canon details will detract from fans' ability to create fanfic of the game, but right now I see it as only possible for Bioware to improve on the situation, and not make it worse. They've already given us a ridiculous dossier where the doctor advises adoption, for god's sake. In short, they can only make it better. And not addressing it will simply give us the peace of mind to retcon it or solve it in more logical ways in our personal fanon.

Exactly that. I fear they will elaborate on it and make it *really* irreversible. Better not to mention it again than that.

The more I think of it, the more I find it weird that Bioware would intentionally slap down Miranda's appeal as a LI. This infertility thing really flies against Bioware's insistence that they treat and value all the LI material equally. I suppose it does help that after my initial outrage at the news that perhaps I can now sit down and wonder why they would do that apart from "hating Miranda", because I find it really hard to accept that explanation rationally. Hence my belief that there has to be something more they have in mind.  

My outrage hasn't abated in the least. I only don't show it as much any more (imagine 300-word rant at Bioware).

@Aedan1992:
The only thing they could do to make me leave Miranda is to make her incompetent and overly emotional. But while things like the infertility won't affect my behaviour in-game, it will really spoil important, non-personal aspects of my fanon epilogue. And yes, they can make it worse, for instance, by making her less competent and overly emotional, and to confirm her infertility as incurable, among other things.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And just something humorous. I'm reading The Diamond Age right now and one of the characters is named Miranda. Not much like ours though.

Ah...one of my all-time favorite books. There's more stuff to think about in it than in ten regular SF novels. A real classic.

[Ieldra]

Melrache wrote...
I don't understand what's wrong with her resignation and lines in that scene, nor do the writers, I think.

Arijharn has explained that in his post on the previous page:

Honestly I was surprised at Miranda's choice to resign from Cerberus to be surprising not just because it just seemed to be a reversal to her otherwise pragmatic character in my opinion, but because she didn't even seem to consider the ramifications of her decision.

I mean, Cerberus was an organization that she felt she belonged too, she found meaning to her life amongst it and it even kept her and her sister safe (usually) from her father. She had trusted TIM in the past seemingly without question and she has probably been asked to do many tasks that may be considered somewhat morally ambiguous, but the Collector Base issue in and of itself is exactly as Legion stated; it's just data. Either way; her actions wouldn't be capable of bringing them back from the dead (*cough*).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 octobre 2010 - 04:54 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

My outrage hasn't abated in the least. I only don't show it as much any more (imagine 300-word rant at Bioware).

Understandable, I'm still irated by it, but I'm trying to put that aside and achieve some sort of objective distance to try and rationalise the reasoning beyond saying a writer hates Miranda, because it's very hard to accept that as an answer. Saying "they hate her, that's all to it" also cuts off all avenues of speculation which I think this thread could use.

Edit: Actually, I'm interested for you to explain the reasons for your outrage, if anything I'd like to see where our opinions concur and differ.  

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Godeskian]

Having met yvonne strahovski at a Chuck thing a while back I have to say that my appreciation for Miranda has everything to do with the woman behind her.

[Caihn]

Melrache wrote...

I don't understand what's wrong with her resignation and lines in that scene, nor do the writers, I think.

Don't worry you are not alone.

I also added a part of the resignation scene in the new version of my tribute video. To me her resignation is an important thing for the understanding of the character.

The video will be online in few hours.

[Caihn]

Godeskian wrote...

Having met yvonne strahovski at a Chuck thing a while back I have to say that my appreciation for Miranda has everything to do with the woman behind her.

To me, Yvonne made Miranda character even better. I'm really glad Bioware chose her.

[Godeskian]

Agreed. And I love that they let her do it in her own accent, as opposed to Chuck's fake American one. the Aussie accent makes me week at the knees.

[Aedan1992]

Lets just hope she will be voicing her in ME 3 otherwise BW will really destroy miranda.

[Caihn]

I agree, <3 her accent.

[Godeskian]

In many ways she was also an inspiration for my decision to learn about voice-acting. If she does not re-voice Miranda in ME3, I shall personally riot.

And yes, I realise that a one man riot is more like a minor public disturbance, but so be it

Modifié par Godeskian, 10 octobre 2010 - 05:26 .