15168 réponses à ce sujet

[t3HPrO]

So BW is trying to put us through the at first I LOL'd; then I SRS'd? I just find it a sign of bad writing whenever you do that. You either do one or the other, not both at one go. And LotSB didn't make me do that much reimagining. From the start, I knew Miranda was a woman who has some experience when it comes to sex, and it's to be expected considering her looks. In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with the iPartners stuff if they'd wrote it a lot better. But the way they wrote it out was as if though Miranda was completely desperate, despite her high requirements. It made her look desperate because it's med records, then sex. No talk, only sex allowed. And anyone noticed how she gave the guy only about 15 minutes to get to her apartment for the hookup? I don't like the way she's portrayed as a completely sex-starved, desperate woman. That's what I have a problem with.

[fongiel24]

t3HPrO wrote...

@Alessar
I meant before he promoted her to her current position. But you are right there. TIM isn't all evil, and he's a damn smartass to top it all off.

I doubt TIM recruited Miranda because he just looking to score with a hot piece of ass. Miranda is gorgeous, but there are other beautiful women in the galaxy who could rival her physical attractiveness. I get the feeling TIM had a role in mind for Miranda from the moment he first started trying to recruit her (or from the moment he first met her if she approached Cerberus first). From what I've seen of TIM in the books and ME2, TIM seems to be an extremely astute judge of people. Miranda's potential would have been obvious from the moment he met her. I think it's more likely TIM would have attempted to foster some sort of surrogate father relationship with Miranda so as to ensure her loyalty. Using Miranda like just another wh*re wouldn't be a great way to gain her trust.

[Alessar]

t3HPrO wrote...

So BW is trying to put us through the at first I LOL'd; then I SRS'd? I just find it a sign of bad writing whenever you do that. You either do one or the other, not both at one go. And LotSB didn't make me do that much reimagining. From the start, I knew Miranda was a woman who has some experience when it comes to sex, and it's to be expected considering her looks. In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with the iPartners stuff if they'd wrote it a lot better. But the way they wrote it out was as if though Miranda was completely desperate, despite her high requirements. It made her look desperate because it's med records, then sex. No talk, only sex allowed. And anyone noticed how she gave the guy only about 15 minutes to get to her apartment for the hookup? I don't like the way she's portrayed as a completely sex-starved, desperate woman. That's what I have a problem with.

I didn't think she was sex starved, I thought all the ipartner staff correlated more to the medical note towards the end. She rejects any idiot or partner with a bad health record. I just saw the ipartner as an eventual path to that report.

Aka "Hey I'm perfect it can't possibly be that I'm sterile, so I just have to look for the best partner possible." with the eventual realization "Hey I've been doing this for a while, I guess something could be wrong with me."

Atleast that's how I saw it.

[GodWood]

t3HPrO wrote...
And I don't think LotSB can be considered canon. I mean, Grunt jacking off to Fornax and Legion capping heads in a CoD/MoH rip off? And they throw this at us and want us to acknowledge it's canon? For god's sakes...I can't do it. Sorry BW, try better writing next time.

The Shadowbroker files contain secret information about all the squadmates.
Secret information is sometimes embarrassing.
Embarrassing information is usually silly/humourous.
Long story short, SB files are canon, deal with it.

[fongiel24]

Elyvern wrote...

Just a quick question: given that Shepard and Miranda are together after ME3, do you think they'd ever agree to marry? I know this question is contingent on marriage remaining a common institution in human societies in ME, but I'd like to hear if you feel she's the kind of person who'll be willing to legalise the relationship.

I doubt it. I don't think Miranda would see the point. If anything, marriage might be a liability if either of them chooses to continue working in the cloak-and-dagger world. I don't think Miranda and Shepard would be ashamed of their relationship, but I doubt they'd want to announce it to the galaxy either. I don't usually tie Miranda and Morrigan that closely, but I think their attitudes towards marriage would be similar.

Oghren: Have you ever thought about getting yourself a husband, Morrigan? It might do you some good, you know.
Morrigan: Tie myself to another with bonds of servitude? It serves no purpose.
Oghren: Don't you want little Morrigans running about some day? The pitter-pat of little witchy feet?
Morrigan: You say that as if one is necessary for the other to follow. My mother needed no husband to have her daughters.

[Alessar]

fongiel24 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

Just a quick question: given that Shepard and Miranda are together after ME3, do you think they'd ever agree to marry? I know this question is contingent on marriage remaining a common institution in human societies in ME, but I'd like to hear if you feel she's the kind of person who'll be willing to legalise the relationship.

I doubt it. I don't think Miranda would see the point. If anything, marriage might be a liability if either of them chooses to continue working in the cloak-and-dagger world. I don't think Miranda and Shepard would be ashamed of their relationship, but I doubt they'd want to announce it to the galaxy either. I don't usually tie Miranda and Morrigan that closely, but I think their attitudes towards marriage would be similar.

Oghren: Have you ever thought about getting yourself a husband, Morrigan? It might do you some good, you know.
Morrigan: Tie myself to another with bonds of servitude? It serves no purpose.
Oghren: Don't you want little Morrigans running about some day? The pitter-pat of little witchy feet?
Morrigan: You say that as if one is necessary for the other to follow. My mother needed no husband to have her daughters.

Just in my view if they're really in love, the relationship would be the same liability with or without marriage. And while there are some similarities between Morrigan and Miranda, in the end there are more differences. I could get into it, but I'd rather not xD.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Miranda is most likely on the job almost all of the time, given how much TIM trusts her with big projects. And I honestly think that TIM doesn't like it when his operatives get laid while on a job.

Why would he care? Considering his usual hands-off approach to his projects, I think it much more likely that it doesn't concern him one whit. IMO, that's yet another grasping-at-straws to avoid having to acknowledge that Miranda actually had sex with someone other than Shepard. Which really, really should *not* be a issue. She had. Period. Anything else is so implausible it doesn't merit talking about.

Even if Miranda was prowling for sex like a cougar, she still wouldn't get much action due to the constraints of her job. She strikes me as too professional to go 'ok I'm taking the day off, I'm gonna get screwed by some random man on the other side of the galaxy/town! Bye!' before jumping on a shuttle to go to get her dose of sex.

This argument is the same category. The game shows us only the story-relevant parts, but do you think the other team members are staying happily back on the Normandy twirling their thumbs while you're exploring such a fascinating place as Illium? That's preposterous. Simply because the game doesn't show us any time off doesn't mean we have to reject common sense and assume there is no such thing. There always is, human's can't work efficiently any other way for long. The dossier just says which way Miranda used some of her free time.

That aside, how many of you think that TIM blackmailed Miranda into sleeping with him by using the issue of Oriana's safety? I mean, we know that old bastage is a serial playboy, and Miranda is insanely hot, so...

Why would I ever think something like that? TIM may be a playboy, but he also knows this would seriously compromise Miranda's loyalty. The man isn't stupid.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:25 .

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

Honestly, I don't care if Miranda had sex with other men besides Shepard. But I dislike the way that people are making her out to be an easy woman whose on the prowl for sex every night, and that she can't keep her libido in check. Really, hearing the way some people talk about Miranda, you'd think that she slept with almost every man in the Terminus.

[Caihn]

I hope Bioware will release something about Miranda quickly, so we can discuss something more interesting than these stupid dossiers.

[t3HPrO]

@Alessar

Miranda sleeping around to see if she's fertile? At least, that's what I gathered from your thoughts. And I think the infertility(besides being a farce) was discovered during a routine medical by Cerberus, who asked Miranda to get it checked out to be sure. I don't think she was trying to get a kid at all, especially considering that a kid would really endanger her career. Imagine what would happen if an enemy got their mitts on Miri's kid.

[t3HPrO]

Honestly speaking, those damn dossiers needed more LOL moments. There's already enough serious business in the main thing. I wished they had one about a weird hobby Miranda had, or maybe Kasumi stealing something so big it's ridiculous, or Jacob enjoying hanar comedies. Something like that would've been better than blatantly whacking down an LI's popularity.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
What he did is rewriting a character. This is not Miranda.

If you're referring to the fanfic - no, he didn't. Did you read to the end? The story envisions a different result of not having done her loyalty mission. It tells both paths:
(1) If you've done her loyalty mission and attempt to destroy the base, Miranda is loyal to Shepard and resigns from Cerberus as usual.
(2) If you've not done her loyalty mission she stays loyal to TIM and tries to shoot Shepard if he attempts to destroy the base.
The different outcome of the loyalty  mission also results in a different way of Miranda responding to Shepard's comments about her genetic tailoring. I would have found all that absolute IC for Miranda. Loyalty or not should really have had a greater impact on a character who is portrayed as a "Cerberus loyalist". Miranda does not change her loyalty lightly, and the way she does it *regardless* of in-game "loyalty" cheapens her.

The fact is she resigns from cerberus even if you don't do her loyalty mission. You can reject it if you want, but this proves her decision to support the destruction of the base and to resign from cerberus has nothing to do with Shepard. It's her decision.
You think it's ooc, I don't think it's ooc, we will never agree on that.
But the miranda this guy describe in his fanfic is NOT the true miranda (bioware's miranda). And this is rewritting a character.

I have rejected nothing. I only said I considered the admittedly non-canon scenario IC, a possible choice Miranda could have made given certain of her character traits.
As for the base, I'm sorry to say so, but repeating we won't agree won't make me shut up about it. Her loyalty to Cerberus and her pragmatism are both well-established traits, so much that they almost define her along with her devotion to her sister and her genetic improvements. She's even called the "Loyalist" in the promotional material, and her change of mind at the base goes against both of these traits and comes out of the blue. That raises questions, whether you like it or not.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Honestly, I don't care if Miranda had sex with other men besides Shepard. But I dislike the way that people are making her out to be an easy woman whose on the prowl for sex every night, and that she can't keep her libido in check. Really, hearing the way some people talk about Miranda, you'd think that she slept with almost every man in the Terminus.

I'm not seeing too many of these statements, so that's perhaps why I'm not as sensitized to them. Also, really, what do I care for the opinions of idiots? There will always be such people. All we can do is try to correct misperceptions and ignore those who won't be convinced.

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

I doubt TIM recruited Miranda because he just looking to score with a hot piece of ass. Miranda is gorgeous, but there are other beautiful women in the galaxy who could rival her physical attractiveness. I get the feeling TIM had a role in mind for Miranda from the moment he first started trying to recruit her (or from the moment he first met her if she approached Cerberus first). From what I've seen of TIM in the books and ME2, TIM seems to be an extremely astute judge of people. Miranda's potential would have been obvious from the moment he met her. I think it's more likely TIM would have attempted to foster some sort of surrogate father relationship with Miranda so as to ensure her loyalty. Using Miranda like just another wh*re wouldn't be a great way to gain her trust.

totally agree with this.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Honestly speaking, those damn dossiers needed more LOL moments. There's already enough serious business in the main thing. I wished they had one about a weird hobby Miranda had, or maybe Kasumi stealing something so big it's ridiculous, or Jacob enjoying hanar comedies. Something like that would've been better than blatantly whacking down an LI's popularity.

I think Bioware wanted to make Miranda more accessible to those who aren't already fans. In which, from what I hear, they did succeed. I only wonder if they anticipated the force of the backlash from her fans.

[Aedan1992]

Yannkee wrote...

I hope Bioware will release something about Miranda quickly, so we can discuss something more interesting than these stupid dossiers.

Damm right. And as for the collector base we can discus it for eternity, but it doesn't change the game. For me its definatly not OOC and it seems that the writer thought the same.

Modifié par Aedan1992, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[t3HPrO]

Anyways, steering away from topic, here's a completely unrelated joke:



On hearing that her elderly grandfather had just passed away, Katie went straight to her grandparent's house to visit her 95 year old grandmother and comfort her.

When she asked how her grandfather had died, her grandmother replied, ‘He had a heart attack while we were making love on Sunday morning.’

Horrified, Katie told her grandmother that 2 people nearly 100 years old having sex would surely be asking for trouble.

‘Oh no, my dear, ‘ replied granny. ‘Many years ago, realizing our advanced age, we figured out the best time to do it was when the church bells would start to ring. It was just the right rhythm. Nice and slow and even. Nothing too strenuous, simply in on the Ding and out on the Dong.’

She paused, wiped away a tear and then continued, ‘And if that damned ice cream truck hadn't come along, he'd still be alive today!’

[t3HPrO]

Oops. Forget it, the format screwed itself up. Fail joke. Sigh.

[t3HPrO]

Anyways, whaddya call a pizza that cracks only bad jokes?



A: A really cheesy pizza.

[Urazz]

t3HPrO wrote...

@Ieldra2
Honestly, I don't care if Miranda had sex with other men besides Shepard. But I dislike the way that people are making her out to be an easy woman whose on the prowl for sex every night, and that she can't keep her libido in check. Really, hearing the way some people talk about Miranda, you'd think that she slept with almost every man in the Terminus.

People are making Miranda out to be some sort of ****?  Where is this?  I haven't really seen it all that much actually.

I dunno the fact that she used a dating site for quick one night stands just shows me that she's too focused on her job and just used those one night stands to 'relieve the itch' so to speak.

I always got the impression that Miranda  is too focused on her job and never really gave herself the time for relationships or really opened up in those relationships she had until Shepard came along.  It's why I think Miranda's past relationship with Jacob didn't work out in the end.

[Aedan_Cousland]

t3HPrO wrote...

@Ieldra2
Honestly, I don't care if Miranda had sex with other men besides Shepard. But I dislike the way that people are making her out to be an easy woman whose on the prowl for sex every night, and that she can't keep her libido in check. Really, hearing the way some people talk about Miranda, you'd think that she slept with almost every man in the Terminus.

That is probably because even if she isn't sleeping with every man in the Terminus, she still seems hypersexual to some fans in comparison to the two favorite female LIs, Tali & Liara. For some odd reason the Mass Effect universe is chock full of adult women who are virgins.

Part of the reason why I liked Miranda's dossier was because she is sexual and is a departure from Liara & Tali. If Bioware had instead described Miranda as a woman so devoted to her work that she was sexless, I would have facepalmed.

[Arijharn]

GodWood wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...
And I don't think LotSB can be considered canon. I mean, Grunt jacking off to Fornax and Legion capping heads in a CoD/MoH rip off? And they throw this at us and want us to acknowledge it's canon? For god's sakes...I can't do it. Sorry BW, try better writing next time.

The Shadowbroker files contain secret information about all the squadmates.
Secret information is sometimes embarrassing.
Embarrassing information is usually silly/humourous.
Long story short, SB files are canon, deal with it.

I agree with this. Accepting all the good and rejecting the 'bad' bits makes me think of the Australian bird; the Emu sticking it's head in the sand. (google it!)

Ieldra2 wrote...
Why would he care? Considering his usual hands-off approach to his projects, I think it much more likely that it doesn't concern him one whit. IMO, that's yet another grasping-at-straws to avoid having to acknowledge that Miranda actually had sex with someone other than Shepard. Which really, really should *not* be a issue. She had. Period. Anything else is so implausible it doesn't merit talking about.

Unsurprisingly, I usually agree with Ieldra on a lot of things. This is also one of those cases. I don't see her having intimate relationships with other men before Shephard to be at all surprising. I also doubt as an aside that TIM would really care who someone sleeps with as long as it doesn't interfere with their jobs. If Miranda seeking nookie prevented the team from resurrecting Shep by a certain date or performing a certain milestone on time; then that would be a situation where TIM may step in (even if it was just demoting the person responsible).
I mean, if someone plays a female Shephard, do they roleplay that their shep has had sex before the 'love of her life'?
All the characters in ME2 are portrayed to have at least realistic motivations as well as realistic notions. The concept of Miranda being a virginal character is frankly absurd. It makes her.. unrealistic. A 31-35 year old gorgeous woman who is a virgin just seems to be wishful thinking, a fantasy. 

Ieldra wrote...
Why would I ever think something like that? TIM may be a playboy, but he also knows this would seriously compromise Miranda's loyalty. The man isn't stupid.

Shock gasp, I agree with Ieldra again! I suppose though that TIM may feel a certain amount of attraction towards her because she is good looking (well; stunning really), but I don't automatically assume that they've done the deed if only because TIM/Cerberus is essentially fulfilling a father type role for Miranda (as strange as that seems -- that probably doesn't make sense though) and that would be weird to say the least.
TIM may feel his sense of attraction might be stronger than normal since she's pretty much unattainable for him, but I also think he would never act on it because of the above issues (including what Ieldra mentioned) but also because he has plenty of other avenues for 'relief.' I'm guessing though that TIM has probably 'sampled' Kelly Chambers though (I have to say; all things considered I'd romance Kelly if Miranda wasn't around) and I don't blame either party for that either (or hold it against Kelly)...
Forgive my very stupid pun but... sex is a part of life.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
What he did is rewriting a character. This is not Miranda.

If you're referring to the fanfic - no, he didn't. Did you read to the end? The story envisions a different result of not having done her loyalty mission. It tells both paths:
(1) If you've done her loyalty mission and attempt to destroy the base, Miranda is loyal to Shepard and resigns from Cerberus as usual.
(2) If you've not done her loyalty mission she stays loyal to TIM and tries to shoot Shepard if he attempts to destroy the base.
The different outcome of the loyalty  mission also results in a different way of Miranda responding to Shepard's comments about her genetic tailoring. I would have found all that absolute IC for Miranda. Loyalty or not should really have had a greater impact on a character who is portrayed as a "Cerberus loyalist". Miranda does not change her loyalty lightly, and the way she does it *regardless* of in-game "loyalty" cheapens her.

The fact is she resigns from cerberus even if you don't do her loyalty mission. You can reject it if you want, but this proves her decision to support the destruction of the base and to resign from cerberus has nothing to do with Shepard. It's her decision.
You think it's ooc, I don't think it's ooc, we will never agree on that.
But the miranda this guy describe in his fanfic is NOT the true miranda (bioware's miranda). And this is rewritting a character.

I have rejected nothing. I only said I considered the admittedly non-canon scenario IC, a possible choice Miranda could have made given certain of her character traits.
As for the base, I'm sorry to say so, but repeating we won't agree won't make me shut up about it. Her loyalty to Cerberus and her pragmatism are both well-established traits, so much that they almost define her along with her devotion to her sister and her genetic improvements. She's even called the "Loyalist" in the promotional material, and her change of mind at the base goes against both of these traits and comes out of the blue. That raises questions, whether you like it or not.

The possibility she could betray Shepard and want to keep the base goes against Miranda character development (the one decided by the writers). Like I said before, it's Miranda's decision. The fact that you help Miranda to save her sister doesn't influence her opinion about the base. A same character can't have two opposite opinions about this subject, that's why this fanfic is a rewriting of the character.
Now, I never say you to shut up. I know you will never stop saying that's OOC, and you will never stop me saying that's IC. I know your arguments, and I already explained why I disagree.

And Miranda being a loyalist doesn't mean she's blind and never question herself. Miranda is an intelligent woman who have her own opinion about many things.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

I hope Bioware will release something about Miranda quickly, so we can discuss something more interesting than these stupid dossiers.

Damm right. And as for the collector base we can discus it for eternity, but it doesn't change the game. For me its definatly not OOC and it seems that the writer thought the same.

IMO, it went like this:
Writer 1: "How can Miranda still be part of Shepard's team after a Paragon Shepard destroyed the base? OK....we'll make her change her mind."
Writer 2: "Wouldn't that be OOC? You know - Cerberus loyalist, her sister. You won't even make it depend on her loyalty mission."
Writer 1: "Doesn't matter. The game is almost over."
Writer 2: "I disagree, but this will spawn heavy disagreements among fans. That will be fun to watch. Let's do it."

[t3HPrO]

Yeah, scratch the TIM bit. Came into my mind after reading a fic that I can't find now(goddamn you FF.net). Anyways, the way they portrayed Miranda on the Normandy as compared to the one in the iPartners made me go, 'wait, what?' Because in the Normandy, she doesn't even have a freakin' minute for you, but she somehow can find time off from her all-important job to get laid in the dossiers. o_O And the way the BW writers wrote her as going about it made her seem like she's barely holding her hormones in check and she's effin' desperate. that, I don't like.



@Arijharn

Wouldn't a more well known example be the ostrich?