15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Hey, thanks! (and you don't need an account to review). Unsurprisingly, I agree with you. She does the repulsive things so others won't have to. That's one reason she's so reluctant to connect with Oriana. She doesn't want her sister to know that these horrible things exist. Miranda, in her own mind, could only corrupt Oriana.

[Mox Ruuga]

jtav wrote...

Hey, thanks! (and you don't need an account to review). Unsurprisingly, I agree with you. She does the repulsive things so others won't have to. That's one reason she's so reluctant to connect with Oriana. She doesn't want her sister to know that these horrible things exist. Miranda, in her own mind, could only corrupt Oriana.

Yes, exactly. I hope, what ever the devs decide to do with her, that they won't soften Miranda too much. She shouldn't be someone who proves to be malleable from Shepard's influence, at least not too much.

I'd prefer for her to develop in a direction of her own choosing, and Shepard having to come to terms with it, if he didn't agree with it, and wished to continue the romance or friendship. Miranda might even make a great antagonist, should their interests diverge too much. Someone who respects you, perhaps even considers you a friend, but knows one of you will not be walking away from the next meeting. Just like Samara, she could be an awesome boss fight... Samara for the Renegades, Miranda for the (uber) Paragons. No matter who wins, Shepard loses.

But I digress, this thread probably doesn't appreciate such talk too much...

[Caihn]

My next purchase :


 

[Aedan1992]

Yannkee wrote...

My next purchase :


 

Lol looks good.:happy:

[Ieldra]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

jtav wrote...

Hey, thanks! (and you don't need an account to review). Unsurprisingly, I agree with you. She does the repulsive things so others won't have to. That's one reason she's so reluctant to connect with Oriana. She doesn't want her sister to know that these horrible things exist. Miranda, in her own mind, could only corrupt Oriana.

Yes, exactly. I hope, what ever the devs decide to do with her, that they won't soften Miranda too much. She shouldn't be someone who proves to be malleable from Shepard's influence, at least not too much.

I'd prefer for her to develop in a direction of her own choosing, and Shepard having to come to terms with it, if he didn't agree with it, and wished to continue the romance or friendship. Miranda might even make a great antagonist, should their interests diverge too much. Someone who respects you, perhaps even considers you a friend, but knows one of you will not be walking away from the next meeting. Just like Samara, she could be an awesome boss fight... Samara for the Renegades, Miranda for the (uber) Paragons. No matter who wins, Shepard loses.

But I digress, this thread probably doesn't appreciate such talk too much...

You'd be surprised. On issues like this the thread is pretty much split down the middle. I - and jtav as well as a few others, I guess - would happen to agree with you. There are a surprising number of people here who care more for Miranda herself than the relationship Shepard has to her, and interpretations of both her as a character and the romance vary quite a bit. We all value Miranda's Shepard-independent competence and personality, though, and while some wouldn't like the option for her to become an antagonist, I don't think many would object if Shepard had to take second place for a change and give in to her in an important matter.

@Yannkee:
LOL...the things people buy.... Can you actually do anything with these except look at them sitting on a shelf somewhere? Using Miranda as a figure in a tabletop RPG seems wrong somehow.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

jtav wrote...

Hey, thanks! (and you don't need an account to review). Unsurprisingly, I agree with you. She does the repulsive things so others won't have to. That's one reason she's so reluctant to connect with Oriana. She doesn't want her sister to know that these horrible things exist. Miranda, in her own mind, could only corrupt Oriana.

Yes, exactly. I hope, what ever the devs decide to do with her, that they won't soften Miranda too much. She shouldn't be someone who proves to be malleable from Shepard's influence, at least not too much.

I'd prefer for her to develop in a direction of her own choosing, and Shepard having to come to terms with it, if he didn't agree with it, and wished to continue the romance or friendship. Miranda might even make a great antagonist, should their interests diverge too much. Someone who respects you, perhaps even considers you a friend, but knows one of you will not be walking away from the next meeting. Just like Samara, she could be an awesome boss fight... Samara for the Renegades, Miranda for the (uber) Paragons. No matter who wins, Shepard loses.

But I digress, this thread probably doesn't appreciate such talk too much...

You'd be surprised. On issues like this the thread is pretty much split down the middle. I - and jtav as well as a few others, I guess - would happen to agree with you. There are a surprising number of people here who care more for Miranda herself than the relationship Shepard has to her, and interpretations of both her as a character and the romance vary quite a bit. We all value Miranda's Shepard-independent competence and personality, though, and while some wouldn't like the option for her to become an antagonist, I don't think many would object if Shepard had to take second place for a change and give in to her in an important matter.

 
I'd go so far as to say I don't consider Miranda & Shepard to be in a true and equal relationship until the both of them are released from their superior/subordinate roles. That he has control over her actions professionally will inevitably shadow their private relationship. And since everyone is allowed their unique version of Shepard, I rationalise that if mine must remain her superior officer, he would defer to her in private matters.

Bottomline is she doesn't need him or anyone else to be who she is. So while I don't deny they're my OTP, but in my speculations, I always keep in mind the contingency that Shepard may not be in her life. As for being antagonists, I don't like it primarily because I think it's a waste that two such resourceful and capable people end up annihilating each other, considering the sum of both of them would be far greater than their individual parts.

Modifié par Elyvern, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Caihn]

Aedan1992 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

My next purchase :


 

Lol looks good.:happy:

Yes, better than I expected.

[jtav]

My only objection to her being an antagonist is being forced to kill her. I'd rather have her survive than Shep. But she would make a fantastic sympathetic villain in slightly different circumstances, precisely because she does have so many virtues. And we do have very wide ranges of opinion on both Miranda and the romance. We even have people here who count Miranda as their favorite character but hate the romance. Okay, just me, but I haven't been driven off yet.

[Zulu_DFA]

So, why didn't Miranda go on with Jacob, and switched to the iPartners?



I know, "the Priiize", but seriously. What's the word in the circles of the mirandologists?

[Ieldra]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
So, why didn't Miranda go on with Jacob, and switched to the iPartners?

I know, "the Priiize", but seriously. What's the word in the circles of the mirandologists?

I think she couldn't respect him enough. For her, attraction and respect are linked as soon as things get past casual sex. In some way, she's never stopped looking down on him, not because of any malice on her part, but just because she is who she is and he's never had a chance to measure up to her standards.

The iPartners thing, IMO, is unconnected to that. That's just for casual sex, with Jacob there was the possibility of something more serious.

Edit:
I like "Mirandologists" It does fit the way we dissect her every action and tidbit of spoken dialogue.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Caihn]

This thread should be renamed : "The sex life of Miranda Lawson" 

<_< it's pathetic

[Mox Ruuga]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So, why didn't Miranda go on with Jacob, and switched to the iPartners?

I know, "the Priiize", but seriously. What's the word in the circles of the mirandologists?

She considered Jacob a friendly acquintance (not a "friend" friend, I doubt she'd count anyone besides Niket as such, and not necessarily even him), and found him physically... suitable?

Between the two, I could see Jacob getting emotionally attached, starting to fall for her, or his "ideal" of her. He'd probably get too "clingy" for Miranda's taste, and she would call the whole thing off. By clingy I mean starting to clearly fall for her, so that she'd notice it.

I wonder tho, would she have made it clear to him in the beginning that she didn't have romantic feelings for him? Or feel anything beyond physical attraction and friendship? No matter if she did or didn't, I could see her berating herself privately for things getting "too intense" and threatening their non-sexual relationship.

Anyway, my view on the subject was formed from observing their interaction. Jacob seems to speak of her in a wistful and at times almost longing manner. He seems clearly regretful that it didn't "work out".  And brings it up, or answers Shepards questions about it repeatedly. Miranda OTOH considers him wryly and at times even condescendingly, tho it always seems softened with an exasparated sense of fondness. But nothing romantic, at all.

I haven't done the Jacob FemShep romance, so I don't know if he goes into greater detail there. Miranda, IIRC, doesn't bring Jacob up. Not once... Whether being romanced or not.

[Elyvern]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So, why didn't Miranda go on with Jacob, and switched to the iPartners?

I know, "the Priiize", but seriously. What's the word in the circles of the mirandologists?

It's a little hard to reason without bringing Shepard into the picture and comparing why she might find Shepard a better option than Jacob. But then it also becomes muddy because Shepard can be paragon to the point of naivety or renegade to the point that he would treat Miranda like another "Priiiize".

But setting that aside, I'd say my reasoning would combine what Ieldra has said plus the fact that Jacob is too idealistic and straightforward morally and psychologically. It's obvious she recognises that in what she says after killing Wilson. It's likely she saw that in him and decided to call it off before things could sour and destroy their personal as well as professional relationship.

[Aedan1992]

Yannkee wrote...

This thread should be renamed : "The sex life of Miranda Lawson" 

<_< it's pathetic

No kidding<_<

[jtav]

The tragedy is that I think she did care for him and did want something more than a fling. It just didn't work out. He's both too idealistic and too unwilling to really commit himself to something.She was willing to be read the riot act by TIM for his sake and gives him a very pained look. She's moved on, but I think she was originally thinking long-term.

[Prudii Aden]

What else is left to dissect? To be honest, I don't really care about how often she did or did not have sex, whether or not she masturbates, or how frequently she does or doesn't. It's simply irrelevant. What I do care about is her character. Personally, what she said in her trailer is what I find attractive about her.

[Godeskian]

Actually, I've always had a fondness for those who are willing to, in the paraphrased words of another poster, are willing to be the rough women standing on the walls so the rest of us can sleep peacefully. I may not agree with her having chosen Cerberus as that instrument, but that's neither here nor there. She did, and I'm okay with it.



And I agree that her character, regardless of her relationship to Shep, matters utmost, but while I'm not fond of the idea of changing her too dramatically, i am equally loathe to see her remain static because the fans are too hung up on the way she is at the moment, especially if there is a gap of several years between now and the start of ME3.



Organic character growth can be achieved, even in a videogame, without sacrificing the core character.

[Nuala]

Mmm, I maybe reading back a few pages and I'm unsure if its been said, but I dislike the way TIM is now an awesome player, but Miranda is easy because she sometimes does the same but using an exclusive dating site...?

I actually like her character more after reading the bits from LoTSB.

Modifié par Nuala, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Caihn]

Prudii Aden wrote...

What else is left to dissect? To be honest, I don't really care about how often she did or did not have sex, whether or not she masturbates, or how frequently she does or doesn't. It's simply irrelevant. What I do care about is her character. Personally, what she said in her trailer is what I find attractive about her.

QFT

[Elyvern]

Godeskian wrote...

Actually, I've always had a fondness for those who are willing to, in the paraphrased words of another poster, are willing to be the rough women standing on the walls so the rest of us can sleep peacefully. I may not agree with her having chosen Cerberus as that instrument, but that's neither here nor there. She did, and I'm okay with it.

And I agree that her character, regardless of her relationship to Shep, matters utmost, but while I'm not fond of the idea of changing her too dramatically, i am equally loathe to see her remain static because the fans are too hung up on the way she is at the moment, especially if there is a gap of several years between now and the start of ME3.

Organic character growth can be achieved, even in a videogame, without sacrificing the core character.

The ice-queen persona is a damn cliche, but of the characters in ME2, Miranda has a lot of potential to become a different person than who she is at the start. The only other who can outstrip her capacity for change is a paragon-romanced Jack. So I'm not too worried about her staying static. On the contrary, my fear lies in her becoming too emotional, lose her moral ambiguitiy, her competence, her pragmatism, all in no particular order. So far, it seems that becoming too emotional might be the biggest danger, and Bioware has proven they can and do get things wrong with characterisation.

Growth is always welcome, but not at the expense of sacrifcing the four points I feel constitutes her core character.  

[jtav]

If she loses those four points, I'm out of here.

[Elyvern]

Nuala wrote...

Mmm, I maybe reading back a few pages and I'm unsure if its been said, but I dislike the way TIM is now an awesome player, but Miranda is easy because she sometimes does the same but using an exclusive dating site...?

I actually like her character more after reading the bits from LoTSB.

Indeed, we just had an exhausting debate (AGAIN!) about that. I believe it was first mentioned at least 80 pages before, but I could be wrong.

[Prudii Aden]

I reckon that Miranda respects Jacob's abilities, from what she saw of them in Galaxies, but when she got to know him better on a personal level, he ended up getting stuck in the friend or younger brother category. She's fond of him, there's no doubt about that, but that's about it.

[Nuala]

Ah, I'm always late to the table. Will have to go back and read.

[Caihn]

Elyvern wrote...

Godeskian wrote...

Actually, I've always had a fondness for those who are willing to, in the paraphrased words of another poster, are willing to be the rough women standing on the walls so the rest of us can sleep peacefully. I may not agree with her having chosen Cerberus as that instrument, but that's neither here nor there. She did, and I'm okay with it.

And I agree that her character, regardless of her relationship to Shep, matters utmost, but while I'm not fond of the idea of changing her too dramatically, i am equally loathe to see her remain static because the fans are too hung up on the way she is at the moment, especially if there is a gap of several years between now and the start of ME3.

Organic character growth can be achieved, even in a videogame, without sacrificing the core character.

The ice-queen persona is a damn cliche, but of the characters in ME2, Miranda has a lot of potential to become a different person than who she is at the start. The only other who can outstrip her capacity for change is a paragon-romanced Jack. So I'm not too worried about her staying static. On the contrary, my fear lies in her becoming too emotional, lose her moral ambiguitiy, her competence, her pragmatism, all in no particular order. So far, it seems that becoming too emotional might be the biggest danger, and Bioware has proven they can and do get things wrong with characterisation.

Growth is always welcome, but not at the expense of sacrifcing the four points I feel constitutes her core character.  

The fact is she has already changed, even if some people don't want to accept it, she's not as pragmatic as they think, and she can be more emotional.
I like even more the new Miranda, and unless Bioware makes a step backward in her character development (which would be completely stupid), it will be this Miranda who will be back in ME3.