15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
I never said or thought Miri was 16 when she ran. I said 17, and I said Miri was 16 when Oriana was born.

The number doesn't matter. The point is that there is no official source that supports fixing Miranda's age when she ran away, or took Oriana. To say that "she was X" is misleading. All you can say is that she was "probably around 16". 

Lawson could very well be her real name, and it's actually plausible because:
1.)There are probably MILLIONS of Lawsons on earth, and probably an equal number on the colonies. It's like finding a needle in a haystack that's soaked in mud.
2.)Even if Miranda's father knew she was with Cerberus, he wouldn't touch her due to fear of retaliation from TIM. So why bother with the red tape of a name change when it doesn't really matter at all?

Err....because she works for a secret organization considered terrorist by the Council? Because her operations are, well, secret? For anyone who knows her as "Miranda Lawson" were that her real name, she'd be easy to track, and the Cerberus operative "Miranda Lawson" could be easily connected with the daughter of that well-known businessman who is her father. There may be a high number of Lawsons on Earth, but "Miranda Lawson"s aren't. A cover identity is the first line of defense for anyone in Miranda's line of work.
As for her father, he does know Miranda works for Cerberus. And he still doesn't let go - see her loyalty mission. I have always assumed "Miranda" is her real given name since Niket calls her "Miri", but that "Lawson" is a cover name so entrenched that it has become her real name as far as anyone but her father is concerned. Maybe even  herself. Which means, of course, that in Cerberus operations, she'd need another cover name...

[Ieldra]

Axestone wrote...
Question: Is there a fan community of Miranda Lawson in other social networks in addition to BSN? I mean Steam Community, XBox Live, Games for Windows Live and other?...
The more people it is well, right?

I'm unaware of any. There's a Miranda Lawson group on DeviantArt that collects Miranda fan art, but otherwise this thread and the BSN groups are the places to go for all things Miranda.

[Godeskian]

I had a though regarding the sudden upsurge of well discussed topics in this thread. Keep in mind that some of us, like me, only arrived on this board a few weeks ago and because I came here following a specific link on the quest and campaign board only realised there was a character board when I got tired of the whining about how people play the game and went exploring.



I haven't had the hundreds if not thousands of pages to dissect everything about Mirandas character yet. So while I'll hold up my hand and say that I'm very much new and probably rehashing old arguments, its with the best of intentions.

[Jebel Krong]

snfonseka wrote...

Too much text...

is that... wolverine?!  

[t3HPrO]

Sigh. I'm sick and tired of dealing with trolls. Why the hell can't they just leave us alone.

[Godeskian]

Anyone in specific on your mind?

[t3HPrO]

On YouTube, HUNDREDS of those ba**ards. HUNDREDS.

Modifié par t3HPrO, 14 octobre 2010 - 08:55 .

[t3HPrO]

Here, almost non-existent, thank God. Yannkee can back me up on the infinite number of trolls running around on YT, trolling every Miranda video out there.

[Godeskian]

I'll confess I'm not a big YouTube user, so I was unaware. Any links to good vids?



And don't worry about the ****s, their opinions are worthless anyway

[Ieldra]

Godeskian wrote...
I had a though regarding the sudden upsurge of well discussed topics in this thread. Keep in mind that some of us, like me, only arrived on this board a few weeks ago and because I came here following a specific link on the quest and campaign board only realised there was a character board when I got tired of the whining about how people play the game and went exploring.

I haven't had the hundreds if not thousands of pages to dissect everything about Mirandas character yet. So while I'll hold up my hand and say that I'm very much new and probably rehashing old arguments, its with the best of intentions.

We're not against rehashing old arguments. In fact, that's most of what we're doing here, apart from speculations relevant to one or the other fanfic. If there's a consensus on some question, it's likely you'll find the answer in the Miranda Lawson FAQ. But consensus is fluid - if you see grounds for challenging the FAQ on some point, please do so. A little debate is always nice. 

There are some contentious issues which might result in rather heated exchanges. These are: the question of whether Miranda's behaviour at the Collector base is out of character or not, and the question of whether one of her possible reactions to a romance conflict is out of character or not. The disagreements in that are pretty much beyond reconciliation, so I won't rehash the arguments without being asked to. Opinions about Miranda's sex life will also spawn lengthy debates, though positions there are somewhat more fluid in my impression.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:51 .

[Elyvern]

Don't forget the combination of sex and Miranda in the same line too. ^^

Edit: I have also wondered if its feasible to add links to key pages of certain discussions that newcomers can quickly catch up on without needing to go through the convoluted rationalisations before. It would also make a nice checklist and source of statistical information about what interest us the most about Miranda. And would be easy for newcomers to post a link to a page suggesting that we may have overlooked a certain point or fact. Might inject more life into what may seem like tired topics.

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:43 .

[Ieldra]

Godeskian wrote...
I'll confess I'm not a big YouTube user, so I was unaware. Any links to good vids?

Check the OP. There's a list of video links near the end of the post. Yannkee's Miranda tribute videos are embedded near the top. I've not searched Youtube for Miranda videos otherwise. 

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
I have also wondered if its feasible to add links to key pages of certain discussions that newcomers can quickly catch up on without needing to go through the convoluted rationalisations before. It would also make a nice checklist and source of statistical information about what interest us the most about Miranda. And would be easy for newcomers to post a link to a page suggesting that we may have overlooked a certain point or fact. Might inject more life into what may seem like tired topics.

It is feasible. I could link to the start of the debate the same way I linked to the FAQ. I've thought of doing so, only I didn't want to spend the time going through the 300 pages of this thread, to say nothing of the 2000 pages of the old threads. Once started, we'd have to keep up.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
I have also wondered if its feasible to add links to key pages of certain discussions that newcomers can quickly catch up on without needing to go through the convoluted rationalisations before. It would also make a nice checklist and source of statistical information about what interest us the most about Miranda. And would be easy for newcomers to post a link to a page suggesting that we may have overlooked a certain point or fact. Might inject more life into what may seem like tired topics.

It is feasible. I could link to the start of the debate the same way I linked to the FAQ. I've thought of doing so, only I didn't want to spend the time going through the 300 pages of this thread, to say nothing of the 2000 pages of the old threads. Once started, we'd have to keep up.

The backlog dismays me. New developments can be easily added to the pile. But given that we can allow for a casual schedule, I think it's doable, since DLCs are coming along more slowly than ever. I don't mind helping with looking through old threads, but maybe we can start off by identifying what issues to cover, their importance, (most interesting/important/contentious?), if we need teirs or categories, little known facts? 

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:14 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Miranda's father has probably been discussed here ad nauseam, so apologies for possibly rehashing old arguments... But what do you think, would it be possible he's not some totally perverted and vicious ogre, but more akin to TIM himself: a powerful, multi faceted man with both negative and admirable qualities?

I don't doubt he'll be more of a villain than not if we ever end up meeting him, but it might be an intriguing possibility for Bioware to make us actually feel some regret in killing him. Someone like Vito Corleone, only more unpleasant and with darker vices. His good sides wouldn't naturally include being a family man, but perhaps he was a big time investor in Sirta, responsible for many good deeds and advances in medical technology, and had had no real ulterior motives with his good deeds? Or perhaps he was a sort of self made tycoon who's story from rags to riches you couldn't help but to admire, despite being committed to ending him for his deeds... Shades of Andrew Ryan.

[t3HPrO]

Godeskian wrote...

I'll confess I'm not a big YouTube user, so I was unaware. Any links to good vids?

And don't worry about the ****s, their opinions are worthless anyway

True. All the good links are on the first page, BTW.

[Godeskian]

Thanks, as for Mirandas dad, I wonder if he's actually the monster we think. We have after all, only heard Mirandas side of the story, and its perfectly possible that she's rationalizing some things.



For instance, her father may well have driven her hard, but one could argue that anything less would be wasteful, after all, she is smart and fast and strong and capable, why wouldn't you push a child like that to excell?



He might have been father of the year, but there are other potential reasons than the fact that he's cartoon evil

[Ieldra]

Mox Ruuga wrote...
Miranda's father has probably been discussed here ad nauseam, so apologies for possibly rehashing old arguments... But what do you think, would it be possible he's not some totally perverted and vicious ogre, but more akin to TIM himself: a powerful, multi faceted man with both negative and admirable qualities?

I don't doubt he'll be more of a villain than not if we ever end up meeting him, but it might be an intriguing possibility for Bioware to make us actually feel some regret in killing him. Someone like Vito Corleone, only more unpleasant and with darker vices. His good sides wouldn't naturally include being a family man, but perhaps he was a big time investor in Sirta, responsible for many good deeds and advances in medical technology, and had had no real ulterior motives with his good deeds? Or perhaps he was a sort of self made tycoon who's story from rags to riches you couldn't help but to admire, despite being committed to ending him for his deeds... Shades of Andrew Ryan.

I've had a message exchange with Arijharn about that. Opinions vary. First and foremost, there's the question of what exactly he wanted to do with his daughters. All we have is the word "dynasty", that Miranda was brought up without friends and pushed to meet impossible demands, and then that he did something that made Miranda not only run away, but take her sister with her to avoid her sharing the same experience. Unspecified as that remains, it must have been pretty bad.

It has also been mentioned that Miranda might have been somewhat mistaken in her perception of her father, that he might not have been quite as bad as she remembered. While there may be something of that, I don't think it's enough to make me reconsider him as a character - not after the way he tried to get hold of Oriana.

Which is not to say he can't have had his good sides. But as long as nothing official materializes, I'll continue to judge him from what little we know. I agree it would be more interesting if he wasn't a complete monster, and if I ever get to meet him, I'll give him the chance to explain his side. More I can't say at this time.

Godeskian wrote...
For instance, her father may well have driven her hard, but one could argue that anything less would be wasteful, after all, she is smart and fast and strong and capable, why wouldn't you push a child like that to excell?

Of course you would. But all that pushing should be tempered by love and not prevent the child from having friends and spend time with them. I think her father's overly controlling manner and his ideas about the social exclusivity of a dynasty were more damaging than his desire to push Miranda to her limits as such. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:25 .

[Elyvern]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Miranda's father has probably been discussed here ad nauseam, so apologies for possibly rehashing old arguments... But what do you think, would it be possible he's not some totally perverted and vicious ogre, but more akin to TIM himself: a powerful, multi faceted man with both negative and admirable qualities?

I don't doubt he'll be more of a villain than not if we ever end up meeting him, but it might be an intriguing possibility for Bioware to make us actually feel some regret in killing him. Someone like Vito Corleone, only more unpleasant and with darker vices. His good sides wouldn't naturally include being a family man, but perhaps he was a big time investor in Sirta, responsible for many good deeds and advances in medical technology, and had had no real ulterior motives with his good deeds? Or perhaps he was a sort of self made tycoon who's story from rags to riches you couldn't help but to admire, despite being committed to ending him for his deeds... Shades of Andrew Ryan.

All things considered, I sincerely wish that he isn't a complete monster, simply because of the effect he has on Miranda for so many years. A man so influential in her life can't be portrayed as a one-dimensional cardboard villian, because it's very easy to dismiss the intentions and power of a cardboard villian, it is far harder to do so when an antagonist is shown to have desirable even admirable goals, but uses unscrupulous ways to achieve them.

And Miranda's strength of character would be indelibly damaged if that was the case. Imagine if there's an encounter where you meet her father, and he turns out to be a psychotic mouth-foamer. You'd probably kill him without a thought, and then say to Miranda "This is the man who's held you in thrall, sent you on the run, made you question your existence and worth all these years? You poor little girl..." This is the kind of sympathy I definitely do not want to feel for Miranda.

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:43 .

[Arijharn]

Dare I say it, but I think Mr. X could be more interesting story wise than Miranda (*gasp*). If he is somewhat involved with the Systems Alliance aerospace industry then he would hopefully offer you a really sweet deal in order to make you compromise because things are larger than just yourself and Miranda.



I think it would be good for those two to bury the hatchet in some way too, even if one of the choices is Miranda burying it in his face.

[Mox Ruuga]

Yeah, I don't mean I don't want the old man to not be a villain. I just want him to be a multifaceted one, with understandable motives, and even possibly sympathetic agendas elsewhere, not related to Miranda and Oriana.

This isn't to say he shouldn't be a monster... But Mass Effect isn't actually overflowing with intelligent and compelling antagonist characters. Most end up dead, and the big enemy has thus far only produced LOUD MOUTHED PROPHETS OF YOUR DESTRUCTION and swarms of zombies and bug mooks. Which is cool, but they are not compelling personal foils for Shepard to match wit and weapons with, such as Saren was. Miri's Old Man could be another Tela Vasir, a compelling minor antagonist, this time with personal ties to a close companion. It was already done with Benezia, but the execution there wasn't as good as it could have been, IMO.

[Elyvern]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Yeah, I don't mean I don't want the old man to not be a villain. I just want him to be a multifaceted one, with understandable motives, and even possibly sympathetic agendas elsewhere, not related to Miranda and Oriana.

This isn't to say he shouldn't be a monster... But Mass Effect isn't actually overflowing with intelligent and compelling antagonist characters. Most end up dead, and the big enemy has thus far only produced LOUD MOUTHED PROPHETS OF YOUR DESTRUCTION and swarms of zombies and bug mooks. Which is cool, but they are not compelling personal foils for Shepard to match wit and weapons with, such as Saren was. Miri's Old Man could be another Tela Vasir, a compelling minor antagonist, this time with personal ties to a close companion. It was already done with Benezia, but the execution there wasn't as good as it could have been, IMO.

IMO, someone similar in attitude and narrative execution to TIM would be great. Even if there is a confrontation, and you are forced eventually to spare his life or kill him, you wouldn't be able to commit yourself to decision without a second thought. Throw in more stakes like the ability to reconcile or not reconcile Miranda to your decision either way, plus the consequence that she might leave you, and you'll have a scenario that will be talked of for months.

[fongiel24]

I'm all for complex, multifaceted villains, but I actually kind of enjoy thinking of Miranda's father as a complete villain with no redeeming qualities. Some villains just work better if they're utterly despicable and I feel that Miranda's father is one of them. We've already got TIM to fill the role of mysterious tycoon with ambiguous morals - another one would just feel like a cheap copy IMO.



In any case, having DLC or ME3 feature Miranda's father offering some sort of Faustian bargain in exchange for betraying Miranda would be completely wasted on me. He could offer me a monkey butler riding a unicorn and I would still answer him with a double-tap between the eyes. I'd rather Miranda's father remain a monster we never see.

[Ieldra]

Mox Ruuga wrote...
But Mass Effect isn't actually overflowing with intelligent and compelling antagonist characters. Most end up dead, and the big enemy has thus far only produced LOUD MOUTHED PROPHETS OF YOUR DESTRUCTION and swarms of zombies and bug mooks. Which is cool, but they are not compelling personal foils for Shepard to match wit and weapons with, such as Saren was. Miri's Old Man could be another Tela Vasir, a compelling minor antagonist, this time with personal ties to a close companion. It was already done with Benezia, but the execution there wasn't as good as it could have been, IMO.

While I agree with you, I don't think Bioware will spend much thought and resources on a background figure of one team member, unless we get a mission that involves him in the main plot somehow. Which would be possible considering his resources, but it would single out Miranda's background for special significance for the main plot, as compared to other team members. They already did that with her Cerberus connection, so I very much doubt they'll add to that.

I'd rather have Bioware put more thought into the intelligence and motivations of characters in the main plot. No more loud-mouthed prophets of destruction...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 octobre 2010 - 01:08 .

[Ieldra]

*superfluous post deleted*

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 octobre 2010 - 01:10 .