15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) They wanted a more individual appearance
(2) Overuse of the Rule of Sexy
(3) They didn't want to spend the resources.

Possibly a combination of the three, since having Miranda run around in her standard outfit all the time was probably considered more sexy and was definitely cheaper than adding armor, and it sets her off more strikingly against other characters.

Which of these would you find depressing? I find (2) annoying if used to a degree that breaks suspension of disbelief.

#2, with a dose of #3. #1 is their excuse.

According to Patrick Weekes, Ashley Williams in ME1 was designed to be a kickass female that wasn't overly sexualized, while still being attractive enough for a LI. For some reason, they created a kickass female that WAS overly sexualized, to a ridiculous degree with the lurid camera angles, with Miranda.

It really is too bad, since it gives a semi-valid seeming excuse for people to dismiss Miranda as a cynical Fanservice Sex Kitten. It would really have been prudent of them to have her in credible combat hardsuit during missions... I wonder who approved the ridiculous decision to sex up the squaddies in ME2? Casey Hudson? Or was the art department allowed to run wild, thinking this was Barbarella or something?

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

You raise some interesting points.

My interpretation would be if we can get back most of them, the fact that there is bridging DLC from 2 to 3 would also make it easier to get rid of extraneous characters. LotSB didn't provide that, but you could have the next content DLC where at the end of the mission, characters like Kasumi, Zaeed and Samara approaching you to say they have to leave. In playthroughs where they die, the scene just doesn't take place, but it would still conveniently write them out "canon-ly" in preparation for less headches in ME3.

not going to happen for the simple reason: not everyone gets (all the) DLC. what if someone buys kasumi's but doesn't buy the one where she's written out, hypothetically? the main game will have to handle the transition.

i don't know how Bioware is going to resolve keeping your squad/getting a new one, but i doubt they can pull the "kill you and re-set you" trick again and have people accept it.

[fongiel24]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) They wanted a more individual appearance
(2) Overuse of the Rule of Sexy
(3) They didn't want to spend the resources.

Possibly a combination of the three, since having Miranda run around in her standard outfit all the time was probably considered more sexy and was definitely cheaper than adding armor, and it sets her off more strikingly against other characters.

Which of these would you find depressing? I find (2) annoying if used to a degree that breaks suspension of disbelief.

#2, with a dose of #3. #1 is their excuse.

According to Patrick Weekes, Ashley Williams in ME1 was designed to be a kickass female that wasn't overly sexualized, while still being attractive enough for a LI. For some reason, they created a kickass female that WAS overly sexualized, to a ridiculous degree with the lurid camera angles, with Miranda.

It really is too bad, since it gives a semi-valid seeming excuse for people to dismiss Miranda as a cynical Fanservice Sex Kitten. It would really have been prudent of them to have her in credible combat hardsuit during missions... I wonder who approved the ridiculous decision to sex up the squaddies in ME2? Casey Hudson? Or was the art department allowed to run wild, thinking this was Barbarella or something?

Ashley came across more as obnoxious than kickass for me and while she's not unattractive, I found her a little "meh". Regarding Miranda, she's a little sexualized, but by the standards of the industry, we're lucky it wasn't worse. Samara's outfit is far worse than Miranda's IMO and some of the female characters in other franchises take it to the extreme. Bayonetta and Bloodrayne immediately come to mind. Some depictions of Lara Croft could be quite gratuitious as well.

As for choosing which of the above options is the most depressing, I don't find any of them that bad. I liked the increased individuality, sexualization of attractive female characters is to be expected when it comes to video games (or probably any media), and limited resources are just a fact of life. If you were to stick a gun to my head and ordered me to choose though, I guess I'd go with 3. Spending the time to add another set of armour for each character wouldn't take that many extra resources, would it?

Modifié par fongiel24, 19 octobre 2010 - 08:56 .

[Jebel Krong]

GodWood wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Which of these would you find depressing?

All three.
I'd rather my team to actually look like a team.

you can be a team without looking like a barbershop quartet... personally i prefer the individual outfits: they were designed to further individualise the characters and - despite certain liberties taken with realism (masks in hostile atmospheres) - they work. i much prefer to see miranda in her outfits than i did ashley in her combat armour all the time.

comparing miranda and ashley, design-wise: i'd say ashley was definitely copy of the then in-vogue "tough-chick" persona in a lot of other media at the time, though being more xenophobic than half of cerberus she's more unsympathetic than, say, miranda anyway. Miranda herself suffered from some of the "choice" camera angles, and whilst she's definitely designed to appeal aesthetically, she actually becomes a lot more likeable than most of the characters and has some of the most character development during ME2.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 09:09 .

[GodWood]

Jebel Krong wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Which of these would you find depressing?

All three.
I'd rather my team to actually look like a team.

you can be a team without looking like a barbershop quartet...

Or you know... a military group. 

i much prefer to see miranda in her outfits than i did ashley in her combat armour all the time.

And its because of Miranda's ridiculous outfit that she never leaves the Normandy aside from her LM.
I prefered Ash's armour.

[Jebel Krong]

GodWood wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Which of these would you find depressing?

All three.
I'd rather my team to actually look like a team.

you can be a team without looking like a barbershop quartet...

Or you know... a military group. 

i much prefer to see miranda in her outfits than i did ashley in her combat armour all the time.

And its because of Miranda's ridiculous outfit that she never leaves the Normandy aside from her LM.
I prefered Ash's armour.

except that, y'know, you're not a military group. shepard is a spectre/ex-spectre and ex-military, but some of the others patently aren't: legion, thane, mordin (ex-), zaeed (ex-), kasumi, samara, garrus, grunt, tali, jack... so it makes little sense for them to be all parading around in matching camo armour-sets.

in fact IRL it's exactly why elite spec-ops teams not only use what equipment they like, but also dress how they like: SAS/SBS.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 09:39 .

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
As for choosing which of the above options is the most depressing, I don't find any of them that bad. I liked the increased individuality, sexualization of attractive female characters is to be expected when it comes to video games (or probably any media), and limited resources are just a fact of life. If you were to stick a gun to my head and ordered me to choose though, I guess I'd go with 3. Spending the time to add another set of armour for each character wouldn't take that many extra resources, would it?

Sexy is good, but if the sexualization gets in the way of suspension of disbelief it gets bad. That I personally think those outfits don't look that sexy because they look as if the characters are imprisoned in close-fitting plastic, that's a matter of taste, but exposed skin in space, and outfits so close-fitting that they look like a paint job, that's silly.

There they made two different outfits for our characters, and they couldn't be bothered to make one of them some more convincing? That's disappointing in the extreme. I blame the cutscene-style dialogue. Making a new model can't be that expensive, but possibly it could lead to all sorts of minor side effects in dialogue scenes (just speculation, I know nothing about the making of dialogue scenes).

[GodWood]

Jebel Krong wrote...
except that, y'know, you're not a military group. shepard is a spectre/ex-spectre and ex-military, but some of the others patently aren't: legion, thane, mordin (ex-), zaeed (ex-), kasumi, samara, garrus, grunt, tali, jack... so it makes little sense for them to be all parading around in matching camo armour-sets.

in fact IRL it's exactly why elite spec-ops teams not only use what equipment they like, but also dress how they like: SAS/SBS.

Cerberus is military and Shepard is military, and as Commander of the ship I'd want my Shepard to run things militarily.

If you/others want your squad to run around mismatched you should be able to but I see no reason why others like me should be forbidden from having our squad be matched like in ME1.

[Mox Ruuga]

Spec Ops groups dressing the way they choose (for select assignments, not for everything!) is one thing.

Wearing high heels, exposed cleavage, or nipple clamps to combat and hostile environments is another.

[Jebel Krong]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Spec Ops groups dressing the way they choose (for select assignments, not for everything!) is one thing.

Wearing high heels, exposed cleavage, or nipple clamps to combat and hostile environments is another.

when you get to a certain level of technology (and in this case add biotics to the mix) what you wear becomes irrelevant. i don't count jack in this because basically the entire character is ridiculous, but everyone else is ok - samara has more cleavage on show than anyone, but she doesn't look ridiculous.

i would also add that characters like miranda/thane/mordin etc are not combat-class characters, they are specialists.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 10:07 .

[GodWood]

Jebel Krong wrote...
but everyone else is ok - samara has more cleavage on show than anyone, but she doesn't look ridiculous

She does.
Heels, latex outfit and exposed cleavage during a firefight is just pointless fanservice.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Spec Ops groups dressing the way they choose (for select assignments, not for everything!) is one thing.

Wearing high heels, exposed cleavage, or nipple clamps to combat and hostile environments is another.

when you get to a certain level of technology (and in this case add biotics to the mix) what you wear becomes irrelevant. i don't count jack in this because basically the entire character is ridiculous, but everyone else is ok - samara has more cleavage on show than anyone, but she doesn't look ridiculous.

No, it's not irrelevant. You can lose shields and barriers in combat, and you actually do so quite often. Once they're gone and you're in space, you're exposed to the vacuum. Great idea. The high heels - no sane woman would go into any kind of combat situation in high heels if she had a choice, also no sane woman would go into space combat without a protectice outfit if there's *any* chance her shields or barriers could fail. And don't get me started about the face masks. Unfortunately, Bioware didn't give Miranda and Samara a choice to wear something practical. When I realized that Miranda had no such choice for the first time, my reaction was similar to Enyala's. 

[Jebel Krong]

how often are you exposed to vacuum in the game? i'd say you are more threatened by noxious atmospheres on some planets than anything else, if you want to support that view... btw you can readily survive in a vacuum for a short time, as long as you're not being bombarded with radiation (not that i'd volunteer to test that situation anytime soon).

as for samara - i spent more time wondering at her biotic abilities during her intro than gazing at her navel, but maybe that's just me... 

i also think some of you need to consider the "fiction" part of science fiction. so what if there's some fanservice thrown in with character designs - if it appeals to the audience and is successful, we get more mass effect.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 10:18 .

[Arijharn]

I think Miranda should of just wore her clothes during the Normandy but wore actual combat gear while out on missions. You know? Like in ME1!



I say this even though I like looking at Miranda (Yvonne).

[hooahguy]

GodWood wrote...

And its because of Miranda's ridiculous outfit that she never leaves the Normandy aside from her LM.

Dont you think thats kinda short-sighted? Leave one of the strongest squad mates on the ship because of her outfit?

[GodWood]

hooahguy wrote...

GodWood wrote...
And its because of Miranda's ridiculous outfit that she never leaves the Normandy aside from her LM.

Dont you think thats kinda short-sighted? Leave one of the strongest squad mates on the ship because of her outfit?

I never bring characters based on gameplay abilities.
I pick whomever fits the mission best story-wise.

[hooahguy]

Suit yourself.

Anyways, about the topic-

its a game guys, while an issue such as someones clothing may bother someone, there are always more important problems, like plotholes: why didnt the collectors abduct the crew of the first Normandy instead of blowing it up?

More of an important question than "I dont like Miri's outfit."

[Jebel Krong]

GodWood wrote...

hooahguy wrote...

GodWood wrote...
And its because of Miranda's ridiculous outfit that she never leaves the Normandy aside from her LM.

Dont you think thats kinda short-sighted? Leave one of the strongest squad mates on the ship because of her outfit?

I never bring characters based on gameplay abilities.
I pick whomever fits the mission best story-wise.

so how about miranda on jack's loyalty mission, then?

[Caihn]

My Shepard never left the Normandy without Miranda.

I don't care about her outfit. I choose squadmates because I like them and because they are efficient in combat.

[Elyvern]

The last thing I like about Miranda is her looks. There are actually *very* few shots I like her in because she sits in the uncanny valley so often. That she's depicted as over-sexualised also cannot be denied. I don't understand why she can't be designed to wear a business suit, a little bit more form-fitting with a V-shaped low collar if needed. Something like that would still be tasteful and doesn't scream "sex kitten!"

Character-individualisation is perfectly fine. All the squadmates in ME2 are such a rag-tag bunch anyway, siccing all of them in similar wear would go defeat that point. But wearing that catsuit into combat just screams all kind of wrong to me. I don't expect her to be like Ashley whose armour is actually iconic on her. Presenting Miranda in a tasteful urbane fashion on ship, and in combat gear on missions would personally only enhance her versatility for me, not detract from her image.

[Aedan1992]

Some people here are overthinking to much about charecters and all. When you do that yes then you create this kind of discussions.

[Elyvern]

What's wrong with that? Would you really prefer a thread where everyone says "yes". "I agree" and then bask in their solidarity?

[Aedan1992]

Elyvern wrote...

What's wrong with that? Would you really prefer a thread where everyone says "yes". "I agree" and then bask in their solidarity?

The problem is people are disscusing things that doesnt matter. It stays a game. Who cares about skin in space i'm not going to make a problem of that. In fact i always take miranda always with me not matter the location and i don't care if her outfit is made for that. 

[Elyvern]

That is your opinion. I take her everywhere I go too, especially on insanity where she is just outrageously overpowered. Doesn't mean I don't have my reservations still. And if you're going to say we are discussing things that doesn't matter, then what does matter and that we haven't discussed to death already?

[Arijharn]

I agree... threads would be terribly boring if we all agreed constantly with each other. In fact, that's why I disappeared from several earlier incarnations of this thread for 100's of pages.