15168 réponses à ce sujet

[enayasoul]

I could see Miranda and Liara working together. Not sure if Miranda would confide in her when pursuing a relationship with the maleshep. Since it's obvious Liara loves Shepard. I would be interesting though if they become best friends and ganged up on my male shep. *evilgrin*

[jtav]

At the risk of opening up the same old can of worms, I think she's had a number of sexual partners, but inexperienced in relationships. She is absolutely terrified of getting her heart broken. Shepard accuses her of as much, and I think he's right. She doesn't let most people get close enough to form a real relationship.

And we know what I think of the Miranda/Liara relationship.

Modifié par jtav, 19 octobre 2010 - 09:54 .

[hooahguy]

I was going to do a more in-depth analysis before, but I was short on time, so here is my reasons why this is relevant to Miri- my comments are in italics. 

First Love, by Stanley Kunitz

At his incipient sun
The ice of twenty winters broke,
Crackling, in her eyes.

Miri, who has never truly loved someone and not got her heart broken ("The ice of twenty winters") finally has found Shep, who is the "incipient sun" in this stanza. As a result, the "ice" has broken because of this new found love. 

Her mirroring, still mind,
That held the world (made double) calm,
Went fluid, and it ran.

Everything before in her life has been a straightforward affair. When she met Shep, everything she knew now was no longer the way it was. This is probably referring to her parting ways with Cerberus.

There was a stir of music,
Mixed with flowers, in her blood;
A swift impulsive balm

Her life, which was before so calculated and "boring" is now exiciting and impulsive- "A swift impulsive balm"

From obscure roots;
Gold bees of clinging light
Swarmed in her brow.

Her love for Shep is coming unexpectedly from "obscure roots" that she had no idea existed.

Her throat is full of songs,
She hums, she is sensible of wings
Growing on her heart.

As Liara said, she is a happier person now that she is with Shep- "Her throat is full of songs."

She is a tree in spring
Trembling with the hope of leaves,
Of which the leaves are tongues.

She is a new person with Shep, a tree in spring, thirsty for love like brand new leaves of a tree.

These are just my thoughts of the poem and how it relates to Miri. Not sure if the poem completely fits, but to me, its a perfect match and description of her transformation from a hard, distant person to one filled with love and care for Shep.

Modifié par hooahguy, 19 octobre 2010 - 10:38 .

[hooahguy]

enayasoul wrote...

If Miranda had to pick one person to confide in on the Normandy who would be the obvious choice besides Shepard?

Id say Samara. Of all my female friends, even the one with boyfriends, very few confide with anyone else besides another female. I suppose it has something to do with females understanding each other more than males ever could understand a female.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

There's a topic: how would she get along with the ME crew? Garrus seems to dislike her, and I have a feeling it's mutual. Tali despises Cerberus, but she seems mostly indifferent to Miranda. She canonically gets along well with Liara, and they could have been close friends if things had been different. I think she and Ash would rub each other the wrong way. They're both loyal to a fault, but they have opposing temperments. Miranda would think Ash is overly emotional and Ash would think Miranda's an ice queen.

I think Miranda and Kaidan would have some sexual tension. They're of similar temprements: introverted and deliberating and professional. But they're currently on opposite sides and have very different moral compasses. I could see the developing a knack for pushing each other's buttons without hurting each other. I think she'd take a certain pleasure in seeing him flustered. I might be a bit biased here.

No idea about Wrex.

Garrus and Miranda have a bit of a chilly relationship, which becomes obvious in the briefing before the Collector Base mission if you killed Jack. The most their relationship will ever be is mutual respect of each others' abilities.

Tali obviously dislikes everything that has to do with Cerberus. I don't think she's very fond of Miranda, particularly since for most of the game Miranda is a pretty hardcore Cerberus supporter. If Tali stopped to think about it, she'd probably realize it's not really anything personal though.

Liara has her misgivings about Cerberus and probably by extension Miranda (at least in the beginning), but I think they could become at least cordial. They might also be able to relate to each other a bit due to the fact both of them are the children of wealthy, powerful, influential people who they later became estranged from. I think both of them have also led fairly lonely lives at times, although I'm not sure if either of them really dwelled on it much.

Miranda and Ashley would be like mixing kerosene and an open flame. They might both be dedicated to serving humanity, but I think it's apparent that Ashley thinks everybody who isn't working directly for the Alliance is a traitor. Miranda would have a very low opinion of Ashley, I think. Ashley is just a lowly grunt with no special training, no special qualifications, and no real experience yet likes to talk as if she does. She also seems to have a very simplistic view of galactic politics, despite her having seen so little of the galaxy. I would not leave both of them in the same room. Could be worse than Jack and Miranda in some ways.

Kaidan could be interesting. Even if Kaidan has serious misgivings about Cerberus, he's not the fiery, impulsive type and he's much more thoughtful and cerebral than Ashley. He might not like some of Miranda's views, but I think they could have a civil debate over them. Both being old enough to be first or second-generation biotics, I think they might also have some common experiences.

Wrex would be largely indifferent to Miranda, just like I think he was probably indifferent to the rest of the SR-1 crew. Miranda would probably be impressed and somewhat intrigued by the fact he seems to have a different outlook in life than other krogan do though.

enayasoul wrote...

If Miranda had to pick one person to confide in on the Normandy who would be the obvious choice besides Shepard?

I'm going with Jacob as a somewhat obvious choice. Miranda clearly is slow to trust people, both professionally and personally. She's worked with Jacob for a long time and they got close enough to even date for a bit. I think she'd trust him enough to confide in him in most things. For really deeply personal issues, I don't think Miranda would confide in anyone though, not even pre-romance Shepard. Even after the engine room scene, I think there are things Miranda still wouldn't feel comfortable confiding in Shepard with, at least not until their relationship has grown a little deeper.

[hooahguy]

fongiel24 wrote...
Garrus and Miranda have a bit of a chilly relationship, which becomes obvious in the briefing before the Collector Base mission if you killed Jack. The most their relationship will ever be is mutual respect of each others' abilities.

You can kill Jack before the CB mission?

[jtav]

Jack dies if you don't get the armor upgrade.

[hooahguy]

Well, yeah, but why would Garrus care? Sorry, Ive always upgraded the Normandy fully.

[Arijharn]

The problem is that it's so easy to hate Cerberus. I think in ME3 they should probably hope to help skew perception of Cerberus from the perspective a bit of your allies (former ones as well).



I mean, what if it was Miranda who gave the order to save somebody regardless of the situation where it would be tactically sound to withdraw (although leaving the person to die would be a bad decision in the first place?).



I don't think any of the ME1 crew would relate to her but I would say that Miranda would probably try to confide with Kelly and Mordin if anybody other than Shep.

[hooahguy]

I dont know, I think keeping Cerberus as morally ambiguous is a good thing.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
The problem is that it's so easy to hate Cerberus. I think in ME3 they should probably hope to help skew perception of Cerberus from the perspective a bit of your allies (former ones as well).

I doubt that anything can be done to change the opinions of those who already hate Cerberus. The plain fact is that Cerberus hasdone more good for the galaxy than the Council in the two years since the battle of the Citadel. That doesn't make their atrocities any better, but it should have made them less of a hated group. Miranda is already perceived as a person apart from Cerberus, so whatever she does from the end of ME2 onwards won't reflect back on Cerberus as a whole. Only TIM could change how Cerberus is perceived. Or...I wonder what would happen if it was revealed that they were working with the Alliance all that time.

@Elyvern:
Nice excerpt on the previous page. Is there anything ready for publishing yet?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 octobre 2010 - 08:00 .

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

Definitely Mordin for me. Excerpt time! (This takes place during the reaper war)

She sat down, and gazed at Mordin thoughtfully.

“How do you do it, Mordin? Stay calm in the face of such odds?”

“All ties accounted for. Lived a full life, have no regrets. More fortunate than some.” He looked at her. “Heard anything from Shepard?”

“He said he was going beyond the Perseus Veil to gather the geth forces in his last message.” Her brow furrowed in worry. “That was three weeks ago.”

Mordin reached out to tweak his cranial horn. “Confess, still find human courtship and mating behavior puzzling. Although may explain that tendency for two units to form a basic breeding pair has effect in creating diversity in human genome.”

Despite knowing the salarian for years, there were times when his mental leaps still took Miranda by surprise.

“Monogamy wasn’t always the norm.” She pointed out, toying with her datapad. “And I’m not sure it’s been around long enough to have that effect.”

“Just a theory. Together with human birth ratios seem to suggest biological imperative achieving equilibrium with mature, space-faring culture.”

It was a long time since Miranda had given it thought, but at his words, the memory of Noah’s ark from her childhood came to mind, the rare times when she forced reality to take a backseat in favour of an imaginary world. She’d long since lost that ability. Inevitably as it did now, the image conjured up a new dread.

“I hope we wouldn’t need to go on board the ark, two by two, this time.”

“Ah. Christian biblical reference. Hard to imagine, but are you a believer?”

“I was never one. But it made for a great story as a child.” Unable to dislodge her newfound dread, she said a little desperately. “I’ve been meaning to ask: I’ve read about salarian breeding contracts, but what actually happens?”

Mordin’s lips split widely. On a human, she would say it was a salacious smile. He lifted a finger. And then followed that with all six digits.

“One female. Many males.”

Miranda smiled despite her mood.

“That sounds strangely refreshing. How do your women stand being pawed over?”

“No physical contact involved. Fortunately or unfortunately. Egg-laying species. Unfertilised eggs hatch into males. Fertilised become females. Each male partner allowed to fertilise one egg.”

She nibbled on the end of a finger. “I see why you think our courtship behaviour baffling. No physical contact would be quite the letdown.”

“Hormones can be very inconvenient. You have my sympathy.”

“You’ll excuse me if I don’t respond to that.” She chuckled, even as Mordin’s lips twitched. “So what happens if a male tries to, ah, overstep his boundaries?”

“Communal affair. Female’s clan-mates stand guard against unsanctioned moves. Quite a good deterrant actually.”  

“Another of those big differences…” She shook her head. “Do you have children of your own?”

“Contract negotiation takes too long. STG work more important. More than one way to leave mark of existence in galaxy. Foresee children in the future yourself?”

Mordin must have sensed her sudden mood change, and asked carefully.

“Intruding? Apologies, didn’t mean offense.”

“No. It’s all right.” Miranda stared at the datapad in her hands before making her decision.

“It’s just awhile back, I found out I wouldn’t be able to conceive naturally. It’s not irreversible, I think. I didn’t have the time to learn more, what with Shepard getting captured and the rest of us on the run. Not that it matters now...” She said, gazing at the opposite wall of the room.

Mordin coughed politely. “Beg to differ. Salarians lack concept of sexual love, but universal for all species to have emotional investment in future. Survival mechanism.”

“I know. But that’s so academic. Knowing it doesn’t count somehow… ”

“Need to feel to understand? Not immune myself. Tendency for scientists to overlook: sometimes, most effective answers are emotional ones.”

She looked at him.

“You’re a wise man, Mordin.”

To her surprise, he looked away in embarrassment.

“Harboured fear once would spend twilight years on home-world as armchair philosopher. Traditional. Much better here instead. Humans have a saying: no rest for the wicked? Very apt personally.”

Miranda laughed. “That’s as good a reasoning as any.”

nice!  you write mordin very naturally.

[Elyvern]

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!

.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!
.

There's one thing I don't get in the excerpt: Miranda's mental leap from Mordin's speculation about human mating behavior and the human species' biological imperative to Noah's ark. Have I missed anything?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:45 .

[Jebel Krong]

cr: mattlolwtf

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!

There's one thing I don't get in the excerpt: Miranda's mental leap from Mordin's speculation about human mating behavior and the human species' biological imperative to Noah's ark. Have I missed anything?

Damn....the reference of needing two units to make one breeding pair wasn't obvious enough still? 

[Elyvern]

Jebel Krong wrote...

cr: mattlolwtf

Beautifully rendered!

...but resent the kitchen setting.

[snfonseka]

[KendallX23]

snfonseka wrote...

     wow..no offense but Miranda has the arrogant position here...the one that says she is better then everyone...

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!

There's one thing I don't get in the excerpt: Miranda's mental leap from Mordin's speculation about human mating behavior and the human species' biological imperative to Noah's ark. Have I missed anything?

Damn....the reference of needing two units to make one breeding pair wasn't obvious enough still? 

i got it, would mordin (an alien)? possibly - he's damn smart.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!

There's one thing I don't get in the excerpt: Miranda's mental leap from Mordin's speculation about human mating behavior and the human species' biological imperative to Noah's ark. Have I missed anything?

Damn....the reference of needing two units to make one breeding pair wasn't obvious enough still? 

It doesn't work for me at all. Even after your explanation, I don't get why I should make the association.
(1) Needing two units to make one breeding pair is too normal for a human reader to evoke, or even justify, any specific association. The specifics of Noah's ark would rather be that there was only to be one pair left of any species.
(2) Perhaps you underestimate the degree to which Christian mythology, even if well known, is a non-issue for a thoroughly non-religious reader.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

cr: mattlolwtf

Beautifully rendered!

...but resent the kitchen setting.

I've told him the setting is inappropriate.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

@ Ieldra & Jebel: Thanks and in the words of Mordin: Inability to write succinct. First chapter past 12k words and counting. Too many things to include. Also, can't resist constant revisions. But close to completing whole chapter. So: soon!

There's one thing I don't get in the excerpt: Miranda's mental leap from Mordin's speculation about human mating behavior and the human species' biological imperative to Noah's ark. Have I missed anything?

Damn....the reference of needing two units to make one breeding pair wasn't obvious enough still? 

It doesn't work for me at all. Even after your explanation, I don't get why I should make the association.
(1) Needing two units to make one breeding pair is too normal for a human reader to evoke, or even justify, any specific association. The specifics of Noah's ark would rather be that there was only to be one pair left of any species.
(2) Perhaps you underestimate the degree to which Christian mythology, even if well known, is a non-issue for a thoroughly non-religious reader.

This is interesting...

I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the flow of thoughts as natural as possible for this excerpt. So it went through many revisions. For me, the strongest link would be the line "monogamy wasn't always the norm" which can only be said when one thinks back on the history of human culture and religion. At the expense of needing to relate to a western reader, I opted for christianity and its advocation of monogamy even in the early times. The ark reference then came as a suitable analogy to the direness of their situation. Miranda's train of thought is decidedly tangential there, but I still felt it was justifiable.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask for more opinions from other posters in this thread?

@Jebel - Mordin would. He mentioned in his LM that he studied many philosophical & religious schools of thought to reconcile what he had to do for the genophage.

Modifié par Elyvern, 20 octobre 2010 - 10:16 .

[Jebel Krong]

i concur - in which case it's fine.

[fongiel24]

Elyvern wrote...
I wonder if it would be too much to ask for more opinions from other posters in this thread?

I loved it. Mordin is spot-on. I've really struggled with his peculiar sentence structure so I really appreciate how well you've captured it. Other than what Ieldra pointed out with the Noah's ark reference (I actually liked it, but I too had trouble making the linkage), there isn't much there that I can criticize. 

BTW that render of Miranda is amazing. It almost looks like a in-game screenshot. I don't really have trouble with Miranda in the kitchen because well... Miranda does have to eat once in a while and she can't order takeout all the time, can she ?