15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Except for the high heels. Is there agreement on another entry in the wishlist: no high heels for the on-mission outift.

The only issue for me is, as Yankee pointed out, Miranda's wearing at least 3-inch heels. I doubt Bioware would bother creating two skeletons for her to account for the height difference. Miranda would end up the same height all the time yet be wearing a 3-inch heel on the ship and no heels off the ship. It probably wouldn't bother most people, but I'd be thinking about it all the time.

I think there's something wrong with me that I notice these things.

heels don't bother me, and they'd mess with her model-height, which may cause technical issues.

[Elyvern]

Maybe that's why the alt apperance pack is taking so long.

[jtav]

It would be nice, but I doubt it. You'd need genetic engineering to explain being able to run in those.

[Ieldra]

Here's the new wishlist collected from comments in this thread. I intend it to replace the more romance-centered list by shinobi062 currently included in the OP. I'd like to know if there is anything to add or anything not consensus that should be removed.

Miranda Lawson wishlist for ME3:

*Miranda is a competent and pragmatic woman who Shepard can find an equal in within the constraints of the story being Shepard's story. We wish her to remain that and become more so.

*Miranda has a mixed ethic with a strong pragmatic streak. She's morally ambiguous. While acknowledging that her possible resignment from Cerberus may change her somewhat, we wish that she retains that trait.

*We wish Miranda to have a significant role and significant screen presence in ME3's plot as well as in Shepard's life if they so choose. A significant role means at least as much interaction with Shepard as she had in ME2, and a part in the plot that is more than being a part of Shepard's team. Sacrificing some time on the team for a bigger role in the plot is acceptable, as long as that does not reduce the amount of possible interaction.

*We wish to develop the relationship with her further. Apart from a meaningful continuation of the romance, an option for a non-romantic friendship is highly desirable. If romanced, we wish that there are situations where Miranda helps Shepard, not only the other way like it was in ME2 (Compare the scene after the lockdown in ME1).

*Miranda has gone through some character development in ME2. We would like to see the result of that in ME3, and we wish her to continue growing as a character. In particular, we wish her to come to terms with her origin and exorcize the ghost of her father she's carrying around in her mind.

*We wish that her infertility does not prove incurable.

*We wish her to be a part of Shepard's team. Temporary absence for story purposes is acceptable, as long as that does not reduce the amount of possible interaction.

*Captain Enyala was right: Miranda has oversexualized outfits in ME2. We wish her to have less aggressively sexualized and all-in-all more convincing ones (Compare Liara's LotSB outfit). No exposed skin in space, please, and no high heels on outfits she wears on combat missions!

*We wish for a believable love scene, with the more extended choreography introduced by ME2, but the artistic style shown in ME1.

*We wish Miranda to have more interaction with other members of the team.

I'd also like to know if everyone considers the first three as absolutely essential as I do.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 octobre 2010 - 03:39 .

[Elyvern]

Stop with the ass shots too, I'd say.

Edit: I'd say yes personally about the first three. I suppose becoming too emotional could be included into wanting her to remain pragmatic. And I know well, not everyone on this thread agrees with that. So fine.

Modifié par Elyvern, 22 octobre 2010 - 03:44 .

[jtav]

I absolutely agree with most of the items, particularly the first three.

[Caihn]

I don't think this should be removed :

Full-on relationship with her. We would love for the romance between her and Shepard to be expanded significantly.

Much more dialogue between them, not just in between missions or certain checkpoints in the storyline.

Have our Shepard/Miri relationship recognized by others, more than what was in ME2. We'd love if everyone on the Normandy or other NPCs elsewhere had something to say or  what their feeling towards the relationship is. It would be nice for others in the game to know that "Miranda and I are together."

[Elyvern]

I'd actually want a romance scene that's different from the ME2 one -like pick a locale that isn't so controversial (we had the engine room now, it's exotic and it's done and over with), and one that doesn't raise accusations that it's a fling, with no emotional content involved.



Would it be childish to want another based on Liara having 2??

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
I don't think this should be removed :

Full-on relationship with her. We would love for the romance between her and Shepard to be expanded significantly.

Much more dialogue between them, not just in between missions or certain checkpoints in the storyline.

Have our Shepard/Miri relationship recognized by others, more than what was in ME2. We'd love if everyone on the Normandy or other NPCs elsewhere had something to say or  what their feeling towards the relationship is. It would be nice for others in the game to know that "Miranda and I are together."

Part 1 is what I meant with "meaningful continuation of the romance". 

Part 2: I don't think we'll have a chance of expanded romance content - they'd have to do that with every LI as well. Therefore I said "at least as much interaction as in ME2". Should I add "more interaction with her than in ME2"?

Part 3: shinobi's entry was made before LotSB and Kasumi - Liara and Kasumi both comment on the romance. So this is a wish already fulfilled. Should it be part of the new wishlist? Should I add "Have other team member acknowledge the relationship between Miranda and Shepard" to the point "More interaction with the team?"

[jtav]

How about "Continue to have other characters comment on the romance." But I think they got the message that the LI fans liked that.



I'd like a second romance scene like Liara's. The relationship feels more real for it.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Part 1 is what I meant with "meaningful continuation of the romance". 

Part 2: I don't think we'll have a chance of expanded romance content - they'd have to do that with every LI as well. Therefore I said "at least as much interaction as in ME2". Should I add "more interaction with her than in ME2"?

Part 3: shinobi's entry was made before LotSB and Kasumi - Liara and Kasumi both comment on the romance. So this is a wish already fulfilled. Should it be part of the new wishlist? Should I add "Have other team member acknowledge the relationship between Miranda and Shepard" to the point "More interaction with the team?"

1 : ok

2 : in ME2 the romance content is 3 conversations and the engine room scene. I think we can hope for more.

3 : Kasumi & Liara are two DLC characters. And it's very easy to miss their comment on your LI. It would be great to hear some comments from NPC (not only squadmates) during the main story.

*Miranda has a mixed ethic with a strong pragmatic streak. She's morally ambiguous. While acknowledging that her possible resignment from Cerberus may change her somewhat, we wish that she retains that trait.

To me it's not absolutely essential.
But it's because I can accept more change than you do. It would not bother me to see a more emotional Miranda in ME3, especially a romanced Miranda.
To me if Miranda is as pragmatic in ME3 as she is in the first part of ME2, it would be a step back in her character development.

I have no problems with the other points.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's the new wishlist collected from comments in this thread. I intend it to replace the more romance-centered list by shinobi062 currently included in the OP. I'd like to know if there is anything to add or anything not consensus that should be removed.

I'd also like to know if everyone considers the first three as absolutely essential as I do.

Apologies in advance, but I'm going to nitpick two points on the wishlist a bit.

Miranda Lawson wishlist for ME3:

*Miranda has a mixed ethic with a strong pragmatic streak. She's morally ambiguous. While acknowledging that her possible resignment from Cerberus may change her somewhat, we wish that she retains that trait.
-I get what you're trying to say, but "mixed ethic" sounds peculiar and I've never seen that term before. I'd merge the first two sentences to read "Miranda is morally ambiguous with a strong pragmatic streak."

*We wish to develop the relationship with her further. Apart from a meaningful continuation of the romance, an option for a non-romantic friendship is highly desirable. If romanced, we wish that there are situations where Miranda helps Shepard, not only the other way like it was in ME2 (Compare the scene after the lockdown in ME1).
-Might want to be more specific about what scene we're talking about here. It's been a while since ME1.

I'm also not really interested in returning to Miranda's issues with her father. There's been enough made of them in ME2 and I don't think Bioware can wrap them up properly in a single mission in ME3. I'd rather they left Miranda's father alone and focused on other aspects of her character. We're asking for character development while clinging to the ghosts of Miranda's past. I think these two wishes are contradictory.

If the focus remains on Miranda's father, there's also the risk that that will be what comes to define the character, possibly resulting in Miranda being accused by detractors of being the "poor little rich girl who's still whining about her father". Personally, I've seen enough about where Miranda comes from. I want to see where she's going , ie. what she plans to do when the Reapers are all wrapped up.

Also, is anybody else interested in seeing a same sex romance option for Miranda in ME3? While it's true there was no such option in ME2, nothing is ever mentioned, either by her or other characters, that would preclude her from being bi/lesbian. Tali wasn't a LI in ME1 but became an LI in ME2. Miranda suddenly showing interest in fem!Shep could be explained in the same way.

Modifié par fongiel24, 22 octobre 2010 - 04:37 .

[jtav]

I wouldn't be interested in a same-sex romance. Miranda is more confident and secure than Tali. You'd have to explain why she showed no interest in Shep. Though, due to the way the dialogue's structured, "you never asked" would be legitimate. You'd also have the problem of writing both a continuing and new romance. I'd like it if they revealed she was bisexual, but the problem comes in making her interested in Shep.

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...
Also, is anybody else interested in seeing a same sex romance option for Miranda in ME3? While it's true there was no such option in ME2, nothing is ever mentioned, either by her or other characters, that would preclude her from being bi/lesbian. Tali wasn't a LI in ME1 but became an LI in ME2. Miranda suddenly showing interest in fem!Shep could be explained in the same way.

No please. The chance for that was in ME2 and the opportunity is gone. Tali's inclusion as a LI could be made realistic in the sense that she came of age after her pilgrimage. Although there is nothing to imply that Miranda is purely hetero, there are no signs that she may be bi sexual either. An option for F/F romance cannot be seen as anything but character derailment since maleshep or femshep, she's already worked with shepard for an entire game.

Edit: I also think we need to be circumspect and realistic about what goes into our wishlist for it to be taken more seriously, instead of having a writer read it, snort and gloss over the whole thing cos we ask for the sky on a platter.

Modifié par Elyvern, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Ieldra]

All right. I changed the phrasing in the first and second entry, shortened the entry about her character development to "come to terms with her origin", added the team member comments pn the romance and the wish for a portrayal that leaves her less open to certain accusations. I did not add "expand the romance", since I think it is always implied that more content is preferable to less. Current version looks like this:

Miranda Lawson wishlist for ME3:

*Miranda is an independently competent woman whom Shepard can find an equal in within the constraints of the story being Shepard's story. We wish her to remain that or become more so. We wish her to walk at Shepard's side instead of just following as much as the story premise permits.

*Miranda is morally ambiguous with a strong pragmatic streak. While acknowledging that her character development in ME2 softens her somewhat, we wish that she retains that trait.

*We wish Miranda to have a significant role and significant screen presence in ME3's plot as well as in Shepard's life if they so choose. A significant role means at least as much interaction with Shepard as she had in ME2, and a part in the plot that is more than being a part of Shepard's team. Sacrificing some time on the team for a bigger role in the plot is acceptable, as long as that does not reduce the amount of possible interaction.

*We wish to develop the relationship with her further. Apart from a meaningful continuation of the romance, an option for a non-romantic friendship is highly desirable. If romanced, we wish that there are situations where Miranda helps Shepard, not only the other way like it was in ME2 (Compare the scene after the lockdown in ME1).

*Miranda has gone through some character development in ME2. We would like to see the result of that in ME3, and we wish her to continue growing as a character. In particular, we wish her to come to terms with her origins.

*We wish that her infertility does not prove incurable.

*We wish her to be a part of Shepard's team. Temporary absence for story purposes is acceptable, as long as that does not reduce the amount of possible interaction.

*Captain Enyala was right: Miranda has oversexualized outfits in ME2. We wish her to have less aggressively sexualized and all-in-all more convincing ones (Compare Liara's LotSB outfit). No exposed skin in space, please, and no high heels on outfits she wears on combat missions!

*We wish for a believable love scene, with the more extended choreography introduced by ME2, but the artistic style shown in ME1.

*We wish Miranda to have more interaction with other members of the team, and if there is a relationship between her and Shepard, we wish that other team members occasionally comment on it, as Kasumi and Liara already do.

*No objectifying ass shots. We like that Miranda is sexually experienced, but she is not a sex object

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[jtav]

Ieldra, shouldn't it be "and if there is a relationship between her and Shepard, we wish that other team members occasionally comment on it..."?



Something about the last point doesn't feel quite right. I like that she is presented as a sexually experienced woman and allowed to enjoy it. I don't want to lose that.

[Mox Ruuga]

I think that's just the "anti objectification" point.

Just say no to ass shots!

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

All right. I changed the phrasing in the first and second entry, shortened the entry about her character development to "come to terms with her origin", added the team member comments pn the romance and the wish for a portrayal that leaves her less open to certain accusations. I did not add "expand the romance", since I think it is always implied that more content is preferable to less. Current version looks like this:

Miranda Lawson wishlist for ME3:

*Miranda is an independently competent woman who Shepard can find an equal in within the constraints of the story being Shepard's story. We wish her to remain that and become more so. We wish her to walk at Shepard's side instead of just following as much as the story premise permits.

Some nitpicking. "whom" instead of "who" "We wish her to remain that or become more so." Other than that, it looks good to me.

Modifié par Elyvern, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:29 .

[Caihn]

Mostly agree with the wishlist.



Sorry to be pessimistic, but don't you think it's too late ? I think the writting process should be finish right now. I know there is a little chance that someone from Bioware read the OP, but if it happen now, don't you think this person could do nothing ?

[Ieldra]

All right, made the changes in my post above and will transfer the list to the OP. Yannkee, ME3 is expected to some out in late 2011 or early 2012, surely you don't think that everything is fixed at this point?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:35 .

[Elyvern]

Hmm...you seem to have removed wanting more emotional meaning from another romance scene.



I agree with Yannkee. Things like plot and major events will probably have been decided upon. But there will always be a chance to finetune conversation lines even up to the day voice recording is done. In fact, I'm actually thinking there is a possibility that the next few content DLC could be voiced because that also has to be done before the cut scenes can be created. And the VAs could be called in to do ME3 work as well as the last few ME2 DLCs.

[Caihn]

Elyvern wrote...
In fact, I'm actually thinking there is a possibility that the next few content DLC could be voiced because that also has to be done before the cut scenes can be created. And the VAs could be called in to do ME3 work as well as the last few ME2 DLCs.

It will be difficult to have a DLC with Miranda voiced in the next months.
Yvonne will be busy with season 4 of Chuck, considering they added 11 more episodes (24 episodes, and I think they are shooting the 11th).

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Hmm...you seem to have removed wanting more emotional meaning from another romance scene.

The last entry was somewhat controversial, since it could be interpreted to say that we don't wish a sexually experienced Miranda. How would you add what you think to an existing entry? I don't want to add another entry, the list is long enough.

[Elyvern]

*We wish for a believable love scene with some emotional depth, executed with more extended choreography introduced by ME2, but the artistic style shown in ME1.

How's that?

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

*We wish for a believable love scene with some emotional depth, executed with more extended choreography introduced by ME2, but the artistic style shown in ME1.

How's that?

Done. See OP.