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[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
This is something I'm playing with for my fic, but it might make for interesting discussion. How would Miranda react to the knowledge that the tech used to create her is now being used by other people and, in modified form, other species?

Conflicted, I guess, since she's not come to terms with the way she was created. She's perfectly capable of seeing there shouldn't be any problem with it in principle. On the other hand, I think she wouldn't feel comfortable out of an unconscious association with her childhood. If it's humans who are doing it, she might be appreciative from a strategic "advancement of humanity" viewpoint - and again, she'd be uncomfortable because she'd have to apply that reasoning to herself as well. It might be a take-off point for her dealing with her personal demons.

[Errol Dnamyx]

Impressive.

[jtav]

Months later, and I'm still getting new dialogue. I accidentally missed Miranda's second conversation, so her loyalty mission briefing was a bit different. No new information, except confirmation that her father's guards were injured when she ran away. I was hoping for maybe some additional hints about why she ran. She says "Once I found out my father was more interested in a dynasty than a daughter, I ran." I suppose that might lend credence to the idea that he was going to discard her because of infertility, but there's also "progressive damage" to consider. Damn this vagueness.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Months later, and I'm still getting new dialogue. I accidentally missed Miranda's second conversation, so her loyalty mission briefing was a bit different. No new information, except confirmation that her father's guards were injured when she ran away. I was hoping for maybe some additional hints about why she ran. She says "Once I found out my father was more interested in a dynasty than a daughter, I ran." I suppose that might lend credence to the idea that he was going to discard her because of infertility, but there's also "progressive damage" to consider. Damn this vagueness.

Can't agree with that. I don't want her infertility to be genetic, so fixing that would be a big disappointment. Vagueness is OK, it's the apparent contradictions that bug me.

As for missing dialogue, I've noticed how much I missed by going through the Mass Effect pages on tvtropes.org. Most of the missed stuff depends on team member combinations I never use or are romance conversations with characters I never romance, so it's not too bad.

[jtav]

I'd like to know why she ran, if only so I could discard certain unlikely theories that nonetheless have a hold on my imagination.



I have yet to romance Tali or Jack to completion. I'll have to run a MaleShep and change that. Eventually.

[Alessar]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Months later, and I'm still getting new dialogue. I accidentally missed Miranda's second conversation, so her loyalty mission briefing was a bit different. No new information, except confirmation that her father's guards were injured when she ran away. I was hoping for maybe some additional hints about why she ran. She says "Once I found out my father was more interested in a dynasty than a daughter, I ran." I suppose that might lend credence to the idea that he was going to discard her because of infertility, but there's also "progressive damage" to consider. Damn this vagueness.

Can't agree with that. I don't want her infertility to be genetic, so fixing that would be a big disappointment. Vagueness is OK, it's the apparent contradictions that bug me.

As for missing dialogue, I've noticed how much I missed by going through the Mass Effect pages on tvtropes.org. Most of the missed stuff depends on team member combinations I never use or are romance conversations with characters I never romance, so it's not too bad.

Could you clarify about not wanting her infertility to be genetic? I mean there is only two factors to infertility either genetic or environmental.

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Months later, and I'm still getting new dialogue. I accidentally missed Miranda's second conversation, so her loyalty mission briefing was a bit different. No new information, except confirmation that her father's guards were injured when she ran away. I was hoping for maybe some additional hints about why she ran. She says "Once I found out my father was more interested in a dynasty than a daughter, I ran." I suppose that might lend credence to the idea that he was going to discard her because of infertility, but there's also "progressive damage" to consider. Damn this vagueness.

Can't agree with that. I don't want her infertility to be genetic, so fixing that would be a big disappointment. Vagueness is OK, it's the apparent contradictions that bug me.

As for missing dialogue, I've noticed how much I missed by going through the Mass Effect pages on tvtropes.org. Most of the missed stuff depends on team member combinations I never use or are romance conversations with characters I never romance, so it's not too bad.

Could you clarify about not wanting her infertility to be genetic? I mean there is only two factors to infertility either genetic or environmental.

What is there to clarify? I do not want her infertility to be genetic. In fact, I do not want her to be infertile at all, but that option is no longer available for the time being, though I hope it doesn't prove incurable.

Or do you want to know *why* I don't want that? I do not want it because I'm attracted to the idea of transhumanism realized through genetic engineering, the idea that humanity should control its own evolution. If Miranda is "viable" in that sense, then her traits could eventually migrate into the human gene pool at large through her offspring - or Orianas - to result in a kind of "advancement of humanity" that has nothing to do with political domination, and everything to do with increasing the natural capabilities of the human species. Having the Lawson sisters fertile would also show that this road is feasible and does not result in the loss of important human functions. This is part of my imagined epilogue for the whole trilogy, the part that shows the big picture of where humanity stands, and I have a *serious* dislike of anything that would spoil it. Of course, I doubt Bioware will inflict the infertility on Oriana canonically, but if it proves genetic, that won't matter.

That means in the end I want her infertility to be cured, by whichever means, I don't care if it's done cheaply or subtly, or how much they'd have to recon. I want it gone. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Alessar]

I mean it has to be genetic, I just honestly don't care if it is or not. If you can bring a human back from the dead and restore not just denatured DNA, but severely damaged DNA, Bioware better not try to tell me that a damaged chromosome or genetic defects can't be fixed. If that isn't fixed in ME 3, well thanks a lot Bioware, you can transform a Y chromosome into an X chromosome, but can't fix it in the future. 

I guess I get a bit more annoyed since I'm a Bio major with a heavy focus on genetics and epigenetics. They do all these things in their universe, but then when it comes to a genetic irregularity, its incurable? /sigh

Modifié par Alessar, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...
I mean it has to be genetic, I just honestly don't care if it is or not. If you can bring a human back from the dead and restore not just denatured DNA, but severely damaged DNA, Bioware better not try to tell me that a damaged chromosome or genetic defects can't be fixed. If that isn't fixed in ME 3, well thanks a lot Bioware, you can transform a Y chromosome into an X chromosome, but can't fix it in the future. 

I guess I get a bit more annoyed since I'm a Bio major with a heavy focus on genetics and epigenetics. They do all these things in their universe, but then when it comes to a genetic irregularity, its incurable? /sigh

You mean it's implausible that it's genetic (so I don't quite get your first sentence). I agree. It could be a side-effect of Miranda's eezo implants. But in any case, given the description in the file it should be curable. I can't take the medic's suggestion seriously, since as you said, there are ways to circumvent the problem.

[Alessar]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Alessar wrote...
I mean it has to be genetic, I just honestly don't care if it is or not. If you can bring a human back from the dead and restore not just denatured DNA, but severely damaged DNA, Bioware better not try to tell me that a damaged chromosome or genetic defects can't be fixed. If that isn't fixed in ME 3, well thanks a lot Bioware, you can transform a Y chromosome into an X chromosome, but can't fix it in the future. 

I guess I get a bit more annoyed since I'm a Bio major with a heavy focus on genetics and epigenetics. They do all these things in their universe, but then when it comes to a genetic irregularity, its incurable? /sigh

You mean it's implausible that it's genetic (so I don't quite get your first sentence). I agree. It could be a side-effect of Miranda's eezo implants. But in any case, given the description in the file it should be curable. I can't take the medic's suggestion seriously, since as you said, there are ways to circumvent the problem.

To a degree it is what I'm saying. If it really is genetic there would be no reason as to why it could not be cured considering everything that is being done.

Even if it were environmental, the environmental damage would be bad because it causes genetic damage which I said can be fixed. 

Bioware wrote that dossier all kinds of bad. Most if not all factors in infertility have a genetic basis, whether heritable, mutations, or methylation. So for a doctor in the mass effect universe to state that it can't be cured, when we have so much genetic manipulation going on is unbelievable. It just irritates me that he doesn't suggest medical treatments and just goes, "hey you can adopt."

Modifié par Alessar, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:55 .

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...
To a degree it is what I'm saying. If it really is genetic there would be no reason as to why it could not be cured considering everything that is being done.

Even if it were environmental, the environmental damage would be bad because it causes genetic damage which I said can be fixed.

That sounds plausible. But to play devil's advocate, there are genetic conditions that aren't repairable once they've manifested - see the ardat-yakshi. I did think it implausible when we heard about it that it's not curable - after all, the asari have been a technologically advanced species far longer than humans. I usually ignore this problem since the mind-melding function and its perversion as a form of psychic vampirism is fantasy anyway, but how would you attempt to explain that that condition can't be cured?

Bioware wrote that dossier all kinds of bad.

Very much this. To think I had to make a new section of the FAQ just to deal with it's inconsistencies....

[Alessar]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Alessar wrote...
To a degree it is what I'm saying. If it really is genetic there would be no reason as to why it could not be cured considering everything that is being done.

Even if it were environmental, the environmental damage would be bad because it causes genetic damage which I said can be fixed.

That sounds plausible. But to play devil's advocate, there are genetic conditions that aren't repairable once they've manifested - see the ardat-yakshi. I did think it implausible when we heard about it that it's not curable - after all, the asari have been a technologically advanced species far longer than humans. I usually ignore this problem since the mind-melding function and its perversion as a form of psychic vampirism is fantasy anyway, but how would you attempt to explain that that condition can't be cured?

Bioware wrote that dossier all kinds of bad.

Very much this. To think I had to make a new section of the FAQ just to deal with it's inconsistencies....

The whole Ardant thing I didn't understand either. I mean when it comes down to genetic manipulation it seems like humans are the ones doing it all. For example the two arguing in the citadel, if you choose the genetic therapy, they end up talking about more genetic upgrades for the kid.

If anything I attribute the ardat thing to more bad writing. It's a lot easier to say "Ooo genetic defect" can't be fixed. I mean if we're talking reality, yes the majority of genetic errors can't be fixed, but when we're talking in mass effect, it seems everything genetic has some basis.

I'll stop my ranting though, I'm trying to focus in class haha xD.

Plus yeah a genetic trait that has already manifested itself would be very hard to change, but the doctor states its progressive. And woman embryos are already produced at birth they just don't come to maturation till puberty. So if progressive damage, then it should be curable. The two situations would be different to a degree.

Modifié par Alessar, 23 octobre 2010 - 08:10 .

[jtav]

I would have made so much more sense if the infertility had been caused by environmental factors. Maybe implanting eezo into her screwed something up. It would be easier to swallow. I don't mind the infertility. There's a lot that could be done. Miranda could have her child--using the very method that created her. That would make for great conflict.

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...
The whole Ardant thing I didn't understand either. I mean when it comes down to genetic manipulation it seems like humans are the ones doing it all. For example the two arguing in the citadel, if you choose the genetic therapy, they end up talking about more genetic upgrades for the kid.

You're forgetting Okeer and his perfect krogan project.

If anything I attribute the ardat thing to more bad writing. It's a lot easier to say "Ooo genetic defect" can't be fixed. I mean if we're talking reality, yes the majority of genetic errors can't be fixed, but when we're talking in mass effect, it seems everything genetic has some basis.

I'll stop my ranting though, I'm trying to focus in class haha xD.

Plus yeah a genetic trait that has already manifested itself would be very hard to change, but the doctor states its progressive. And woman embryos are already produced at birth they just don't come to maturation till puberty. So if progressive damage, then it should be curable. The two situations would be different to a degree.

Rant away. If it's about Miranda's infertility, I'll join you.

I agree that genetics in the ME universe should be far enough advanced that fixing a genetic defect shouldn't be that hard. As for manifested traits, Miranda's problem is described as a "benign neoplasm". That should be child's play to remove after any possible genetic defect that may have caused it has been fixed.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I would have made so much more sense if the infertility had been caused by environmental factors. Maybe implanting eezo into her screwed something up. It would be easier to swallow.

That scenario is still possible. The dossier explicitly says they don't know if it's genetic.

[Alessar]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I would have made so much more sense if the infertility had been caused by environmental factors. Maybe implanting eezo into her screwed something up. It would be easier to swallow.

That scenario is still possible. The dossier explicitly says they don't know if it's genetic.

The thing is either way, the dossier is badly written. That doctor is written all horribly. 

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I would have made so much more sense if the infertility had been caused by environmental factors. Maybe implanting eezo into her screwed something up. It would be easier to swallow.

That scenario is still possible. The dossier explicitly says they don't know if it's genetic.

The thing is either way, the dossier is badly written. That doctor is written all horribly. 

I still wonder if they made it that way intentionally. Bioware has paid a lot of attention to detail in many aspects of the game, I find it hard to credit that they'd write something like this without being aware of the inconsistencies. OK, it's biology, which Bioware has a particularly conflicted relationship with, but still... the dossier is so blatantly inconsistent with itself and the ME universe that I almost can't believe someone could create it that way by mistake...

...OK, forget what I said. They can. I just remembered the way they justified the need for liquifying people for the human Reaper. Genetic material, yeah. Ironic, really, there's a game developer named Bioware, and they just Fail Biology Forever.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 octobre 2010 - 09:20 .

[Alessar]

Yeah the human reaper made perfect sense too >.>

[aeetos21]

Heh, I just got some new dialogue today also. Whenever I did Mordin's mission, when I first enter the quarantine and kill the two turians I never realized the two were standing in front of a door (i always focused on the sick turian first). so when I opened it i was pleasantly surprised when she had something to say about locking people inside.



(ok maybe not the cheeriest dialogue but still any undiscovered content at this point is good content)

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

All I remember is "I wouldn't dare say anything against Miranda and expect to survive the reprisal."

I meant what he says after her loyalty mission.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

All I remember is "I wouldn't dare say anything against Miranda and expect to survive the reprisal."

I meant what he says after her loyalty mission.

What does he say?

[jtav]

Inspired by by something I read elsewhere: if it turns out Miranda has been in love with Shepard even before he woke up, I will be very unhappy. It's not romantic. It's creepy For all her research, Shepard is a stranger. Besides, I like having to earn her regard over the course of the story. It means something that she's initially cold to him, but later chooses to make herself vulnerable and open her heart to him. That is infinitely more romantic than "I've been in love since before we met."

[Alessar]

jtav wrote...

Inspired by by something I read elsewhere: if it turns out Miranda has been in love with Shepard even before he woke up, I will be very unhappy. It's not romantic. It's creepy For all her research, Shepard is a stranger. Besides, I like having to earn her regard over the course of the story. It means something that she's initially cold to him, but later chooses to make herself vulnerable and open her heart to him. That is infinitely more romantic than "I've been in love since before we met."

I can't see her being in love with him before he even woke. That would completely kill her character.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

All I remember is "I wouldn't dare say anything against Miranda and expect to survive the reprisal."

I meant what he says after her loyalty mission.

What does he say?

Something like:

"Hey, Commander, you think Miranda would ever lighten up now and... ? Yeah I can't even finish saying it."

What can't you finish saying.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:49 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Inspired by by something I read elsewhere: if it turns out Miranda has been in love with Shepard even before he woke up, I will be very unhappy. It's not romantic. It's creepy For all her research, Shepard is a stranger. Besides, I like having to earn her regard over the course of the story. It means something that she's initially cold to him, but later chooses to make herself vulnerable and open her heart to him. That is infinitely more romantic than "I've been in love since before we met."

Miranda knowing almost every little detail about Shepard could go either way, either piquing her interest or repulsing her, but I doubt it would inspire such strong feelings as love or hatred. At most it would plant seeds for one of the two and make it more likely she eventually ends up at one of the extremes, depending on how she and Shepard interact when he wakes up.