15168 réponses à ce sujet

[ShrinkingFish]

Collider wrote...

That is pretty much it. The base line. Any female character who does that is a Femme Fatale. And Miranda exhibits all these traits.

How so? Miranda's not trying to seduce anyone in the game. She's not mysterious either. I mean you get on the Normandy and she'll tell you her lifestory like it's nothing. Not to mention she isn't leading anyone into dangerous situations with her looks.

I believe you're ignoring a large portion of the greater themes and storylines.

But then, I play games like I watch movies and read books. Story is very important to me so I pay very close attention to it. If a game doesn't have good story or is written poorly I usually hate it.

And I love ME

[Collider]

It seems to me that they intended Miranda to be a femme fatale sometime in development, but that those ideas didn't really come to fruition. So we only have remnants, like her outfit.

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Obviously sexuality does not apply in a gunfight...

I guess I'm just viewing the characters as complete individuals that operate and exist in a world that is not confined by the limits of the game.

Like the game is a brief window into a much larger world.

But there's nothing to show that her outfit is adventageous during the mission. I could see it being to her advantage for information gathering from male clients but she's supposed to be saving the galaxy through gun fire. That outfit is unneccessary at best and a liability at worst.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

She's mysterious for all of five minutes. Seriously she starts telling you all about her the second you get on the Normandy. She doesn't hide her past. Irresistible desire? Shep can break up with her for any time! I wonder if he can be as much as a douche about it as he can with Jack? and there is no conflict of loyalty to Shep at the end of the game because she tells TIM to screw off. Maybe, maybe it might be out of concern for Oriana. But a disloyal Miranda is liable to be a dead Miranda (particualary if she had the "I resign" convo). And if not disloyal what reason does she have for trusting TIM the guy who has shown time and time again he sees her only as a tool over Shep who has shown time and time again he sees her as a person? 

Okay. Yeah.

You have to accept that the player makes a series of very specific choices. I'm just summing up the story that is presented if you persue a romance with Miranda...

If you do... she is a Femme Fatale. If you don't... she is still a Femme Fatale... you just avoid her honey trap early on instead of needing to fight your way out of it.

And the whole loyalty thing. I'm not doubting that she is loyal to Shepard. Only that she has split loyalties due to two very distinct aspects of her personality. In the end, it is her love of Shepard versus her love of her sister. Whoever she loves more is going to get her loyalty. Is she loves both equally then she is going to be drawn between them and end up being a destructive force for not only herself but all parties in question.

[Ryzaki]

...But the whole loyalty to her sister is just a random guess you're making. TIM doesn't threaten Miranda with Oriana at the CB where he had the most to gain why would he do it later on?

And she's not a femme fatale at all. There's nothing dangerous at the current moment with her and Shep's relationship. It's not based off seduction, it's not based of manipulation and it's not based off some big bad making their life hard.

Sure she might turn into one if they decide to add some drama with TIM in ME3 but at the current moment there's nothing by the definition you gave remotely FF about her. She *could* turn into one. But she's not at the current moment.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:00 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Obviously sexuality does not apply in a gunfight...

I guess I'm just viewing the characters as complete individuals that operate and exist in a world that is not confined by the limits of the game.

Like the game is a brief window into a much larger world.

But there's nothing to show that her outfit is adventageous during the mission. I could see it being to her advantage for information gathering from male clients but she's supposed to be saving the galaxy through gun fire. That outfit is unneccessary at best and a liability at worst.

Well... if you pay attention to the story outside the gunfights... it works perfectly.

And the outfit isn't really a liability. They aren't fighting with swords and armor after all... but guns and shields that stop bullets. I don't care what she is wearing. If she gets shot it is going to make a hole. Jacob even wears stuff of the same type of material... maybe that material is more protective than you imagine. It is sci-fi after all. It can be science enhanced and what not.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

...But the whole loyalty to her sister is just a random guess you're making. TIM doesn't threaten Miranda with Oriana at the CB where he had the most to gain why would he do it later on?

Well. We know Miranda is loyal to Shepard. And we know Miranda is loyal to her sister. And we know Miranda is loyal to Cerberus.

These loyalties can change... but the least likely one to change is her loyalty to her sister...

Also... sorry... not sure what CB stands for and I remember no instance where the Illusive Man threatening Miranda would have benefited him at all... so please explain.

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Obviously sexuality does not apply in a gunfight...

I guess I'm just viewing the characters as complete individuals that operate and exist in a world that is not confined by the limits of the game.

Like the game is a brief window into a much larger world.

But there's nothing to show that her outfit is adventageous during the mission. I could see it being to her advantage for information gathering from male clients but she's supposed to be saving the galaxy through gun fire. That outfit is unneccessary at best and a liability at worst.

Well... if you pay attention to the story outside the gunfights... it works perfectly.

And the outfit isn't really a liability. They aren't fighting with swords and armor after all... but guns and shields that stop bullets. I don't care what she is wearing. If she gets shot it is going to make a hole. Jacob even wears stuff of the same type of material... maybe that material is more protective than you imagine. It is sci-fi after all. It can be science enhanced and what not.

...Right. So Shep runs around in heavy armor because it's fashionable.   The crew in ME1 wore armor because it was fashionable.

Because you know it's not a good idea to have some metal between you and the bullet just in case your shields fall before you can get behind cover. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:04 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Obviously sexuality does not apply in a gunfight...

I guess I'm just viewing the characters as complete individuals that operate and exist in a world that is not confined by the limits of the game.

Like the game is a brief window into a much larger world.

But there's nothing to show that her outfit is adventageous during the mission. I could see it being to her advantage for information gathering from male clients but she's supposed to be saving the galaxy through gun fire. That outfit is unneccessary at best and a liability at worst.

Well... if you pay attention to the story outside the gunfights... it works perfectly.

And the outfit isn't really a liability. They aren't fighting with swords and armor after all... but guns and shields that stop bullets. I don't care what she is wearing. If she gets shot it is going to make a hole. Jacob even wears stuff of the same type of material... maybe that material is more protective than you imagine. It is sci-fi after all. It can be science enhanced and what not.

...Right. So Shep runs around in heavy armor because it's fashionable.

Damn right it is...

But more importantly. Shepard's heavy armor does him very little good once his shields are down. Shields down, two bullets later you're an inch away from death. That heavy armor doesn't deflect bullets or anything. It just makes them hurt less.

In addition. Shepard is a soldier. Miranda is a biotic, tech expert, business woman who is handy with a pistol. Heavy armor doesn't suit her character type.


But talking about this armor thing is getting kind of off topic. Miranda = Femme Fatale and all that. My only point is the outfit is excusable.

I mean... Thane appears to wear a coat.... end of story... a coat. And some slacks....

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Ryzaki]

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator or vanguard. Nope restricted to one class.

...Oh wait-!

So yeah. The whole "Lol u don't needz armor!" is bull. Liara wore armor just like everyone else did in ME1.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:08 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator. Nope restricted to one class.

An adept Shep, engineer Shep, sentinel Shep, infiltrator Shep, vanguard Shep, etc is still a Soldier. I didn't mean to imply the class... just their status in the Alliance Military. Shepard is a soldier... in any conceivable capacity. A warrior who fights for the Alliance, later a Spectre that fights for the Council, and eventually a hero who fights for everyone or whatever... but always a Soldier.

Didn't even mean to bring up classes or anything like that.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:09 .

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator. Nope restricted to one class.

An adept Shep, engineer Shep, sentinel Shep, infiltrator Shep, vanguard Shep, etc is still a Soldier. I didn't mean to imply the class... just their status in the Alliance Military. Shepard is a soldier... in any conceivable capacity. A warrior who fights for the Alliance, later a Spectre that fights for the Council, and eventually a hero who fights for everyone or whatever... but always a Soldier.

If your excuse is that a civilian's clothes are suddenly as protective as military armor I'm not sure what to tell you...

And your biotics excuse would work for the Adept and Sentinel classes. So no those Sheps wouldn't have to wear heavy armor...and yet they do...? Maybe because it's more protective than wearing skin tight clothing? Just a thought.

Hell Shep can be a better biotic than Miranda on par with Jack and he/she still wears armor.

The Biotics excuse is a steaming pile of bull**** pardon my language.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Jebel Krong]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I guess I'm just viewing the characters as complete individuals that operate and exist in a world that is not confined by the limits of the game.

Like the game is a brief window into a much larger world.

this is true and applies for a lot of game aspects that people seemingly can't overlook/accept.

Ryzaki wrote...

But there's nothing to show that her outfit is adventageous during the mission. I could see it being to her advantage for information gathering from male clients but she's supposed to be saving the galaxy through gun fire. That outfit is unneccessary at best and a liability at worst. 

nobody has outfits that are advantageous to any mission - that's not even a realistic concept, don't be obtuse and stupid.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:11 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator or vanguard. Nope restricted to one class.

...Oh wait-!

So yeah. The whole "Lol u don't needz armor!" is bull. Liara wore armor just like everyone else did in ME1.

She also carried an assault rifle, a sniper rifle and a shotgun that she couldn't use.

And while we're at it... Jack goes into battle half naked!

Armor doesn't matter.

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator or vanguard. Nope restricted to one class.

...Oh wait-!

So yeah. The whole "Lol u don't needz armor!" is bull. Liara wore armor just like everyone else did in ME1.

She also carried an assault rifle, a sniper rifle and a shotgun that she couldn't use.

And while we're at it... Jack goes into battle half naked!

Armor doesn't matter.

/facepalms

Jack also dies the fastest in all my squads. Armor doesn't matter my foot.

One of my many problems with ME2. Everyone except your squad wears armor. (Unless he/she happens to be a matriach). Otherwise everyone else wears armor. EVERYONE ELSE.

It's like your squaddies are suicidial. Not to mention the magical breathing masks.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:15 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator. Nope restricted to one class.

An adept Shep, engineer Shep, sentinel Shep, infiltrator Shep, vanguard Shep, etc is still a Soldier. I didn't mean to imply the class... just their status in the Alliance Military. Shepard is a soldier... in any conceivable capacity. A warrior who fights for the Alliance, later a Spectre that fights for the Council, and eventually a hero who fights for everyone or whatever... but always a Soldier.

If your excuse is that a civilian's clothes are suddenly as protective as military armor I'm not sure what to tell you...

And your biotics excuse would work for the Adept and Sentinel classes. So no those Sheps wouldn't have to wear heavy armor...and yet they do...? Maybe because it's more protective than wearing skin tight clothing? Just a thought.

Hell Shep can be a better biotic than Miranda on par with Jack and he/she still wears armor.

Armor doesn't matter.

Cloths denote character... not functionality. Shepard wears armor because it is appropriate for him/her to do so. Most of the other character do not wear any armor into combat because it doesn't benefit them... or something.

Miranda fights in a cat suit.

Jack fights half naked.

Jacob fights in what appears to be the same material as Miranda.

Kasumi fights in a cute thieves outfit.

Tali fights in a suit that if it gets torn by a bullet then she can get an infection and die if she isn't careful.

Mordin fights in... whatever that is he's wearing...

Thane fights in a trench coat and slacks.

Samara fights with half her chest in the free air in a cat suit similar to Miranda's.

Legion fights naked

Garrus, Grunt, Shepard and Zaeed are the only ones who wear armor... They're in the minority.

[Ryzaki]

And all the enemies wear some form of armor. (Unless of course you're talking about creatures all batarians/humans from what I've seen wear some form of armor) The more armor an enemy has the harder it is (usually) to take down. So yes. Armor does matter. Just your companions are bloody brain dead for the most part.

The true reason Shep is the most BA in the universe. He/She has enough common sense to wear some decent armor.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:18 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Right because Shep totally can't be an adept, engineer, sentinel, infiltrator or vanguard. Nope restricted to one class.

...Oh wait-!

So yeah. The whole "Lol u don't needz armor!" is bull. Liara wore armor just like everyone else did in ME1.

She also carried an assault rifle, a sniper rifle and a shotgun that she couldn't use.

And while we're at it... Jack goes into battle half naked!

Armor doesn't matter.

/facepalms

Jack also dies the fastest in all my squads. Armor doesn't matter my foot.

One of my many problems with ME2. Everyone except your squad wears armor. (Unless he/she happens to be a matriach). Otherwise everyone else wears armor. EVERYONE ELSE.

It's like your squaddies are suicidial. Not to mention the magical breathing masks.

And those armored helmets sure benefit those guys I'm shooting. Wonder why they all die and my squademates live? Maybe my squademates have got the right idea? Eh?

And yeah. the magical breathing masks that protect your uncovered eyes from harsh environments are rather funny...

Point is the cloths don't necessarily apply to combat. Just the character's personal tastes.

Notice that Shepard is the only one to ever change his cloths... ever.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:18 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

And all the enemies wear some form of armor. (Unless of course you're talking about creatures all batarians/humans from what I've seen wear some form of armor) The more armor an enemy has the harder it is (usually) to take down. So yes. Armor does matter. Just your companions are bloody brain dead for the most part.

The true reason Shep is the most BA in the universe. He/She has enough common sense to wear some decent armor.

And yeah, there is armor in the game that improves survivability of certain enemies. But these enemies are usually heavy mechs, enormous krogan guys, or bosses that are given armor just to make them harder to kill...

[ShrinkingFish]

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:22 .

[Ryzaki]

No it's because your companions have the magic of plot shield (until the suicide mission).



...Shep's face is always completely covered in harsh environments by the helm. It's geniuses like Samara and Miranda and Jack (and Zaeed!) that leave parts of their face exposed.



Heck I guess Jack's chest is so facinating the Quarians don't care that she's bringing bacteria unto their ship because she's not in a hardsuit.

[GodWood]

Dude the lack of armour is stupid.

Stop trying to justify it.

[ShrinkingFish]

GodWood wrote...

Dude the lack of armour is stupid.
Stop trying to justify it.

Omg! I know! It IS stupid!!

I'm not justifying it!! I'm pointing out how it DOESN'T MATTER!!

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

No it's because your companions have the magic of plot shield (until the suicide mission).

...Shep's face is always completely covered in harsh environments by the helm. It's geniuses like Samara and Miranda and Jack (and Zaeed!) that leave parts of their face exposed.

Heck I guess Jack's chest is so facinating the Quarians don't care that she's bringing bacteria unto their ship because she's not in a hardsuit.

Nope. They obviously don't care.

Jack's tattoos apparently can both stop bullets and eliminate bacteria.