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[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

Because your reasons are speculation. I could use the same thing to argue that Tali and Jack are femme fatals.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:27 .

[ShrinkingFish]

BioWare designed Miranda as a Femme Fatale in both looks and writing.

"Early ideas of Miranda pegged her as a blonde, but once they created her Cerberus uniform, black hair seemed to better complement the "femme fatale" look."

"Apparently early on in the game's development, Miranda was intended to be able to be romanced by both a male and female Commander Shepard."

Find the citations yourselves. I'm done with this.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:28 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

Because your reasons are speculation. I could use the same thing to argue that Tali and Jack are femme fatals.

You're wrong. None of it was speculation except for the possible problems with Cerberus. All of it was in game examples.

Jack and Tali also do not fit all the themes... only some of them. Hence they are not Femme Fatales.

[Ryzaki]

Oh? So is Kaidan bi then? Because he was "conceived" as a bisexual LI. ...Oh wait. That didn't quite go into the game did it...

Whoops.

Plenty of characters designs change. (I just wish BW had either actually made her a femme fatale or left the words alone. I strongly suspected they used it because they assumed it equaled = hot chick whose dangerous) and wrote her like that until the Normandy where she becomes...not FF like.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:33 .

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

Because your reasons are speculation. I could use the same thing to argue that Tali and Jack are femme fatals.

You're wrong. None of it was speculation except for the possible problems with Cerberus. All of it was in game examples.

Jack and Tali also do not fit all the themes... only some of them. Hence they are not Femme Fatales.

The whole point of a Femme Fatale is she's dangerous.

Without the whole TIM thing (which NEVER happens in game) there is no "danger" in Dude Shep being with her. So yeah. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

Because your reasons are speculation. I could use the same thing to argue that Tali and Jack are femme fatals.

You're wrong. None of it was speculation except for the possible problems with Cerberus. All of it was in game examples.

Jack and Tali also do not fit all the themes... only some of them. Hence they are not Femme Fatales.

And neither is Miranda.

Mysterious - No

I guess she doesn't fit all the themes!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:31 .

[fongiel24]

Collider wrote...

It seems to me that they intended Miranda to be a femme fatale sometime in development, but that those ideas didn't really come to fruition. So we only have remnants, like her outfit.

Yeah, I've got to agree with this. Miranda looks like a femme fatale but doesn't seem to be written like one. Despite having gorgeous looks (some people don't think so, but canonically she's supposed to be gorgeous) and a perfect body, all put on display with a catsuit that hides nothing, Miranda never really takes advantage of her looks by attempting to seduce anyone. She acts exactly in the same way someone with her skills but without her looks would act.

She was billed as a femme fatale, but this was just another case of game marketing not matching the game itself.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

But seriously. Lets stop talking about cloths and refocus on why we came into this thread!!

Miranda is a Femme Fatale!!

Dude. I've already told you why she wasn't. That's not going to change.

I've already told you why she obviously is!!

You just ignore all my reasons!

Because your reasons are speculation. I could use the same thing to argue that Tali and Jack are femme fatals.

You're wrong. None of it was speculation except for the possible problems with Cerberus. All of it was in game examples.

Jack and Tali also do not fit all the themes... only some of them. Hence they are not Femme Fatales.

And neither is Miranda.

Mysterious - No

I guess she doesn't fit all the themes!

Bull****. She fits the mold. And she was even desgined and written to be one.

You just like to ignore that entire aspect of the story because you hate her outfit and the camera angles and dismiss them as frivolities instead of important thematic choices.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:34 .

[ShrinkingFish]

fongiel24 wrote...

Collider wrote...

It seems to me that they intended Miranda to be a femme fatale sometime in development, but that those ideas didn't really come to fruition. So we only have remnants, like her outfit.

Yeah, I've got to agree with this. Miranda looks like a femme fatale but doesn't seem to be written like one. Despite having gorgeous looks (some people don't think so, but canonically she's supposed to be gorgeous) and a perfect body, all put on display with a catsuit that hides nothing, Miranda never really takes advantage of her looks by attempting to seduce anyone. She acts exactly in the same way someone with her skills but without her looks would act.

She was billed as a femme fatale, but this was just another case of game marketing not matching the game itself.

I disagree entirely. I felt that the Miranda romance spoke volumes to the Femme Fatale theme.

[Ryzaki]

/facepalms.

Dude she doesn't fit the themes. She doesn't seduce, or try to seduce *anyone* she doesn't use her looks to her advantage in the game! (Anything she does it's with her intelligence or her biotics!) She poses no danger to Shepard at all other than that one scene in the beginning which is glossed over later.

She's not a FF. She may have been initially conceived as one. But the result didn't match up.

I give up. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:36 .

[GodWood]

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms.

Dude she doesn't fit the themes. She doesn't seduce, or try to seduce *anyone* she doesn't use her looks to her advantage in the game! (Anything she does it's with her intelligence or her biotics!) She poses no danger to Shepard at all other than that one scene in the beginning which is glossed over later.

She's not a FF. She may have been initially conceived as one. But the result didn't match up.

Incorrect.

She does seduce Shepard in the event that Shepard romances her. She doesn't try... she does it. I know... I played her romance up to that point and then called it off. She does use her looks to her advantage... Just not in combat (obviously) which you were so kind to point out. And she does pose a threat to Shepard due to split allegiances. She cannot be trusted.

Initially conceived, designed and implimented as one. I saw it run its full course right up to the moment before the fall in ME2... I expect the fall comes in ME3... but we'll have to wait and see.

[ShrinkingFish]

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms.

Dude she doesn't fit the themes. She doesn't seduce, or try to seduce *anyone* she doesn't use her looks to her advantage in the game! (Anything she does it's with her intelligence or her biotics!) She poses no danger to Shepard at all other than that one scene in the beginning which is glossed over later.

She's not a FF. She may have been initially conceived as one. But the result didn't match up.

I give up. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

And you also have no idea what a Femme Fatale is... you looked it up on a website that gave you the wrong information.

You're speaking from a place of ignorance and inexperience. This was never an argument. This was me explaining to you what a Femme Fatale is and how Miranda fits the mold and you stubbornly refusing to accept the concept entirely as if you knew what you were talking about.

Read some Detective novels, watch some detective movies and get a taste of some new culture.

Broaden your horizons. Learn something new. It enriches the experience. I promise.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

Are you trolling me? Cause if you are you are amazing at it... the best I've met.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

Are you trolling me? Cause if you are you are amazing at it... the best I've met.

Do you know what a psychopath is? 

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms.

Dude she doesn't fit the themes. She doesn't seduce, or try to seduce *anyone* she doesn't use her looks to her advantage in the game! (Anything she does it's with her intelligence or her biotics!) She poses no danger to Shepard at all other than that one scene in the beginning which is glossed over later.

She's not a FF. She may have been initially conceived as one. But the result didn't match up.

I give up. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

And you also have no idea what a Femme Fatale is... you looked it up on a website that gave you the wrong information.

You're speaking from a place of ignorance and inexperience. This was never an argument. This was me explaining to you what a Femme Fatale is and how Miranda fits the mold and you stubbornly refusing to accept the concept entirely as if you knew what you were talking about.

Read some Detective novels, watch some detective movies and get a taste of some new culture.

Broaden your horizons. Learn something new. It enriches the experience. I promise.

Right because everyone else here saying "uh...not quite right." using your definition is wrong. Okay then.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

Are you trolling me? Cause if you are you are amazing at it... the best I've met.

Do you know what a psychopath is? 

You must be a troll.

Well done. You got me hook, line and sinker.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms.

Dude she doesn't fit the themes. She doesn't seduce, or try to seduce *anyone* she doesn't use her looks to her advantage in the game! (Anything she does it's with her intelligence or her biotics!) She poses no danger to Shepard at all other than that one scene in the beginning which is glossed over later.

She's not a FF. She may have been initially conceived as one. But the result didn't match up.

I give up. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

And you also have no idea what a Femme Fatale is... you looked it up on a website that gave you the wrong information.

You're speaking from a place of ignorance and inexperience. This was never an argument. This was me explaining to you what a Femme Fatale is and how Miranda fits the mold and you stubbornly refusing to accept the concept entirely as if you knew what you were talking about.

Read some Detective novels, watch some detective movies and get a taste of some new culture.

Broaden your horizons. Learn something new. It enriches the experience. I promise.

Right because everyone else here saying "uh...not quite right." using your definition is wrong. Okay then.

An ignorant majority is still ignorant. I'd rather be right than wrong with friends.

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

Are you trolling me? Cause if you are you are amazing at it... the best I've met.

Do you know what a psychopath is? 

You must be a troll.

Well done. You got me hook, line and sinker.

Right. The troll says someone else is trolling when they can no longer back up their posts.

Anyways I might as well enlighten you. Psychopaths lack regret. Jack doesn't. She regrets her past but she sadly goes in a downward spiral. It'll take a lot to get her out of it. But it's possible (as her romance clearly shows). 

urgh. I can't believe I just defeneded Jack.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

The whole Femme Fatal thing is just a bull**** marketing label just like how Jack was labeled 'the psychopath'.

Jack is a psychopath!

Dude...I don't even like Jack...and that's just wrong.

Are you trolling me? Cause if you are you are amazing at it... the best I've met.

Do you know what a psychopath is? 

You must be a troll.

Well done. You got me hook, line and sinker.

Right. The troll says someone else is trolling when they can no longer back up their posts.

Anyways I might as well enlighten you. Psychopaths lack regret. Jack doesn't. She regrets her past but she sadly goes in a downward spiral. It'll take a lot to get her out of it. But it's possible (as her romance clearly shows). 

urgh. I can't believe I just defeneded Jack.

Are you kidding me? She loves to kill. Regrets none of it. Enjoys it. Loves killing.

Just because you can help her out of her psychosis doesn't mean she isn't a phsycopath when you meet her. Because she definitely is. And what about her past does she regret? Her past haunts her. She isn't haunted by regret.

I can and have backed all my arguments up beyond a doubt and you simply dismiss them all. You have no argument other than to say I'm wrong.

I post why Miranda is a Femme Fatale and you say "But what about female Shepard" I say that does not change her character type, just the direction that character goes and you say, "her armor is trashy".... seriously... wtf.

Plus. I doubt any of the people who told me I was wrong read the full arguments for why Miranda is a Femme Fatale.

[GodWood]

Jack is by no means a mentally stable person but she is not a psychopath.

[ShrinkingFish]

GodWood wrote...

Jack is by no means a mentally stable person but she is not a psychopath.

What about her makes her not a psychopath?