15168 réponses à ce sujet

[t3HPrO]

Prudii Aden wrote...

A couple I'd suggest -
Defining Luck]http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5756391/1/]Defining Luck by Commander Copyright
Sacrifice without Obligation]http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6392940/1/]Sacrifice without Obligation by deejaymcknight

I'm undecided about this one though -
Black Swan Event]http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5902019/1/]Black Swan Event by 00Captain Crunch

I highly recommend deejaymcknight's works. It's very well written, and captures the essence of the characters well. You guys should try reading his other work, Call to Arms: A Child's Truth. It's AMAZING.

[jtav]

Trolls are everywhere. We haven't always been as fair to Tali and Jack fans as we should be. And I like ice queens and female villains who can manipulate without remorse. They're usually the smartest and most interesting people in the room. Miranda is not manipulating Shepard. I merely said I would have enjoyed it if she had been. Right now, my hope is that her increased warmth doesn't preclude her from also being the sort who would leave the crew to die for the sake of the greater good.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I would have loved it if Miranda had been seducing and manipulating Shepard for her own ends. Sadly, there's not a shred of evidence this is the case. Almost all her interaction with Shepard would have to be a lie. Bioware isn't that subtle. Their traitors and villains all but have neon signs above their heads. Every indication is that Miranda genuinely cares about a romanced Shep and that falling into bed with him wasn't part of the plan. More's the pity.

I'd go for this in a heartbeat. I find it a little insulting to Miranda that Shepard changes her quite significantly but she can't seem to change him. I don't mind that they fall in love, but I would have liked to see more manipulation on Miranda's part.

One of my dream scenarios would have been a relationship where Miranda starts off seducing and manipulating Shepard for her own ends but finds herself in over her head, trying to convince herself it's all just a ruse but unable to deny that she's developed feelings for him. In the end, when it's time for her to bring her original plans to fruition and betray him, she finds herself paralyzed by the decision.

If you did her LM and/or managed to persuade her, she'd betray Cerberus instead and take Shepard's side, realizing she really does love him. If you didn't do her LM and/or failed to persuade her, she'd betray Shepard but be absolutely torn to shreds about it. While we're dreaming of things that will never be, there would be a third option where Miranda gets to have her cake and eat it too - she manages to seduce Shepard to her side (think KOTOR DS ending when Revan joins Bastila).

t3HPrO wrote...

Ugh your obsession sends her straight down the movie cliche 'hot as hell villian chick who seduces the hero' hall, and that would make many of us Mirimancers/maniacs jump ship in a heartbeat. We want a hot chick with brains and who can take care of herself who is afraid to let you in because she's afraid of screwing the relationship up, not another seductress. If I wanted a tough, hot as hell seductress, I'd bloody watch Goldeneye.

Who is this "we" and this "us" you speak of ? I hadn't realized that every Miranda fan likes her for the exact same reasons.

Modifié par fongiel24, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:22 .

[Jebel Krong]

i have to say fongiel, i don't often disagree with what you write, but your "dream scenario" is just so cliche... in some respects what the games gives us, though slightly neutral, is less cliche than any other choice, purely because it's so unusual to have a strong character survive becoming the LI - miranda changes, yes, but nowhere near totally (yet).

the fact that no-one changes shep is unsurprising, i can almost hear the death-cries of hardcore RPG-ers at the very suggestion...

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:26 .

[jtav]

fongiel, I would have liked your scenario with the modification that, if she betrays him, she does so without remorse. And yes, it's cliche, but it's one of my favorite cliches. Bastila is my favorite romance for exactly this reason.

[fongiel24]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i have to say fongiel, i don't often disagree with what you write, but your "dream scenario" is just so cliche...

Yes, and I'm very fond of that cliche. I can't help it. All you kids and your constant demands for "new" and "original" and "innovative"... pfft.

jtav wrote...

fongiel, I would have liked your scenario with the modification that, if she betrays him, she does so without remorse. And yes, it's cliche, but it's one of my favorite cliches. Bastila is my favorite romance for exactly this reason.

But to be completely outsmarted by an LI would completely crush my ego. I play RPGs mostly for the characters, but there's a small part of me that still wants to have my ego stroked. I would be even more crushed by an ending where I was stabbed in the back by a character that pretended to love me than if my hero failed altogether. I'd end up sitting there in front of my monitor for hours after the credits rolled whimpering, "But she said she loved me... But she said she love me... But she said..."

Bastila is probably still my favourite RPG romance of all time (which really isn't that long, since I haven't played an RPG older than KOTOR I). That line about "not being afraid to love anymore" still sends (good) chills up my spine. If I were a billionaire, I'd buy Bioware for the sole purpose of having them make a proper sequel to KOTOR I where I get to continue the relationship with Bastila and get a proper conclusion to the Revan story arch.

Modifié par fongiel24, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Prudii Aden]

@tehpro - kindly remove that picture. I'm sure we all understand how you feel, but you do not need to tell us about the latest troll to irritate you, nor do you need to post pictures such as that. That one is certainly inappropriate to this forum and thread.

[jtav]

That's why you'd do the loyalty mission: so she'd turn out to be in love with you. My first impression of Miranda was that she was a Bastila expy, so I expected the knife in the back, possibly with an option to join her. Would have been fun.

[fongiel24]

I'm a masochist who loves tragedy, so having Miranda stab Shepard in the back, only to realize afterwards that she truly did love him would be amazing for me. I obviously wouldn't keep it as my canon ending, but I'd want to play it just once.



Being given the chance to follow Miranda to the dark side would definitely have been fun too. The tragic fallen hero is another favourite cliche of mine. The tragic fallen hero who was seduced into falling by a woman he thought he loved would be even better.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah see while I don't mind her helping Shep change I'd like her to do it in the honest blunt way she usually does things. I'm not overly fond of manipulative females. (One of the many reasons I'll never really like Leliana too much as an LI nor Morrigan). The Shepc can be blunt in what he wants to tell Miri she should be able to do the same.

And I think that is the one thing that started making me like her. She tells you what she thinks no hiding behind flowery words and whatnot. Yet not being abrasive and rude.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Alessar]

But there's no dark side to fall into imo. If the whole scenario was Miranda recruiting you into Cerberus well it's al perspective from that point on. Considering Cerberus is the only group doing anything it be a horrible choice and a bad choice to not join in. I could see it working in a game like KOTOR where light and dark are so clearly distinguished, but in a game like Mass Effect, being Renegade isn't evil in my opinion just as being Paragon isn't always good because of the consequences your actions could later have.

[Ieldra]

Alessar wrote...
But there's no dark side to fall into imo. If the whole scenario was Miranda recruiting you into Cerberus well it's al perspective from that point on. Considering Cerberus is the only group doing anything it be a horrible choice and a bad choice to not join in. I could see it working in a game like KOTOR where light and dark are so clearly distinguished, but in a game like Mass Effect, being Renegade isn't evil in my opinion just as being Paragon isn't always good because of the consequences your actions could later have.

I agree with this. With the knowledge we have at the end of ME2, there's no indication that any other group does anything against the Reapers (LotSB canonically takes place after the CB). Working with Cerberus does not equal falling to the dark side, and their methods in projects unrelated to the current one do not fall back on Shepard. In my case, Miranda's presence or not, Miranda's romance or not, has no influence on my endgame decision, and I would've disliked it very much had the game implied that Miranda was the reason I continued to work with Cerberus.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Elyvern]

Indulging stray thoughts that wander in and out....

It's beginning more and more to look like there is quite a big gap of time between the end of ME2 and ME3. What with Retribution stating Shepard was still somewhere out there 6 months after the CB mission, and now with Mass Effect: Inquisition happening 1 year after the CB mission,which feels like setting a stage for a new human powerbase on the Citadel in anticipation to the events of ME3.

One year....all sorts of things could happen on the Normandy. I'm feeling a twinge now for people who romance the VS and ended up with 1 month before Shepard got spaced and disappeared for two years. Which also gets me thinking how awfully remissed if in that one year, nothing was done to ensure Oriana's safety should Shepard blow up the CB base.

Modifié par Elyvern, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:07 .

[Mondo47]

If that's the case, Elyvern, wouldn't it seem equally possible that the space in time could well be make a Virmire Survivor DLC a little more likely?

There's always a flipside called hope, comrade...

[Elyvern]

Mondo47 wrote...

If that's the case, Elyvern, wouldn't it seem equally possible that the space in time could well be make a Virmire Survivor DLC a little more likely?
There's always a flipside called hope, comrade...

I have no gripes against that, as long as the purpose of the DLC isn't just expressively to "even out the field" between Liara and the VS, at the expense of story content.

We were also speculating that there's a likelihood the last few DLCs will coincide with voice recording sessions for ME3 since those would have to be done before majority of the cutscenes can be rendered. Which, to bank on that little thing you call "hope" would mean a higher chance of getting the VAs back for more ME2 squadmate specific interactions, even concluding side-stories to pave our way into ME3.  

Modifié par Elyvern, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:11 .

[jtav]

I'm feeling rather pessimistic. I suspect one of those DLCs will separate Shepard from crew. They won't be together for that year. The question remains: who will come back?

[Elyvern]

Naw, I'd rather think the seperation will take place as the opening scene of ME3 for greatest impact. The more I think about it, the more Zulu's courtmartial scenario seems to be the most likely. At some point in time, yes, allies will have to break Shepard out of prison. That's when we'll be biting our toenails wondering who they'll be...

[fongiel24]

Alessar wrote...

But there's no dark side to fall into imo. If the whole scenario was Miranda recruiting you into Cerberus well it's al perspective from that point on. Considering Cerberus is the only group doing anything it be a horrible choice and a bad choice to not join in. I could see it working in a game like KOTOR where light and dark are so clearly distinguished, but in a game like Mass Effect, being Renegade isn't evil in my opinion just as being Paragon isn't always good because of the consequences your actions could later have.

The ME universe isn't nearly as neatly split along Good/Evil lines as the SW universe is, that's true. In this imaginary scenario that only exists in my head though, Cerberus never receives the whitewashing that it does in ME2 that turns it from a clearly deranged rogue black ops unit in ME1 to the morally ambiguous group in the sequel. I think Shepard becoming a hardcore supporter of ME1 Cerberus, a group that's so heavily implied to be the bad guys, would go beyond a Renegade action into fullblown villain territory.

[fongiel24]

I think ME3 is harder to call than ME2 was in terms of guessing who will come back because of the suicide mission. The "anybody could be dead" mechanic means Bioware has kind of almost painted themselves into a corner. I say almost, because they could still rig up some sort of ridiculously customizable squadmate recruitment system, but this would mean investing resources into missions involving teammates that didn't make it into ME3 for some players. This problem could have been avoided easily by just having scripted deaths in ME2.

[Elyvern]

I still think that remains possible with DLCs. The reason why no DLC has done so yet is because for players that emerge from the CB with only two squadmates, they need those two for combat purposes. But the final DLC could very well do away with a number of extraneous squadmates in the form of leave-taking and such. That would be a proper and legitimate closure for all ME2 content, and leave Bioware with a smaller number of returning characters in ME3. Didn't get the DLC for that closure? Have some squaddie tell you then or you get the news in the form of emails. Feel cheated? Go buy the DLC and experience the leave-taking. Win-win!

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
I think ME3 is harder to call than ME2 was in terms of guessing who will come back because of the suicide mission. The "anybody could be dead" mechanic means Bioware has kind of almost painted themselves into a corner. I say almost, because they could still rig up some sort of ridiculously customizable squadmate recruitment system, but this would mean investing resources into missions involving teammates that didn't make it into ME3 for some players. This problem could have been avoided easily by just having scripted deaths in ME2.

I think it is feasible to invest resources for team members who aren't always there, since I think for the vast majority of players almost the whole team will have survived. The VS is the bigger problem, since there's a more or less 50% chance of either. For the same reason, it wouldn't be a problem to be consequent and make it so that if certain team members are dead it will mean reduced content.

It all depends on how much they'll want to attract new players at the expense of the old fanbase. They could be cynical, say the old fans will buy ME3 anyway and only make new characters, but that would make the forums explode and Bioware's credit for good storytelling would suffer severely. I'm certain I'm not the only one who would view *any* claims made them in future with heavy suspicion. On the other side, they did say they were excited about the possibility of creating widely varying outcomes, so I'm rather certain they want ME3 to be a finale enjoyable by everyone. I remain somewhat optimistic.

@Elyvern:
That looks like a feasible way to get rid of those NPCs nobody would get mad about if they were removed. Particularly the non-LI characters. There are six of them in ME2, DLC included. That's half the cast.    

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:40 .

[jtav]

I can hardly help but be pessimistic. Partly it's my nature, and partly because I can't think of any Bioware game since TOB where a character who could die returned as a full team member. I'd rather be happy than right, though. You do know that I really do love Miranda? I'm just trying to steel myself against heartbreak and bitterness.

[Alessar]

I'm not even going to attempt to guess how they're going to make it work. Don't want to get to wrapped into being optimistic or pessimistic, though being pessimistic and being surprised would be alot better.

[hooahguy]

If Miri isnt in ME3 I will curl up in a corner with my laptop and keep playing ME2.

[Airell]

In ME 3 I think there will be a part of the game called the tearful reunion? I keep hearing that name over and over again. were the love intrest are united with Shep I hope it will be in the mid of the game than at the end, so my Miran can go in to battle along the side of her man.