15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark_Helmet]

It's nothing personal with TIM or anything but I've seen the video of what happens if you give it to him.

That smile is too evil for my tastes.

[Dark_Helmet]

Goodnight Miranda thread.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...
I never keep the base...I listen to Miranda. I always take her, as I feel she's the best companion to have there...it's the most satisfying ending, IMO.

Don't get me started. Miranda's advice is out of character for her. If she'd said she doesn't trust TIM anymore, that she'd been mistaken in believing humanity's best interest lied with him - I could have taken that seriously.
It wouldn't have changed my preferred decision, though - I take Legion's advice, or rather, Legion echoes what I think. In short, the knowledge contained in the base must not be destroyed, and if that means letting TIM have it - for a time - then I'm prepared to live with the consquences. In other words, ensuring the survival of intelligent life in the galaxy as we know it and the end of the Reapers' extinction cycle, that's worth bringing about the Evil Empire. Probably I'll play right into TIM's gambit with this decision, but from in-world knowledge I couldn't make any other.
Knowing this is a story, we'll be able to avoid both bad outcomes if we want - but my Shepard doesn't know that. Also, I hope Bioware are serious enough in their depiction of morality that the decision to destroy the base will come back to haunt you, just as we know keeping it will do.

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Don't get me started. Miranda's advice is out of character for her. If she'd said she doesn't trust TIM anymore, that she'd been mistaken in believing humanity's best interest lied with him - I could have taken that seriously.
It wouldn't have changed my preferred decision, though - I take Legion's advice, or rather, Legion echoes what I think. In short, the knowledge contained in the base must not be destroyed, and if that means letting TIM have it - for a time - then I'm prepared to live with the consquences. In other words, ensuring the survival of intelligent life in the galaxy as we know it and the end of the Reapers' extinction cycle, that's worth bringing about the Evil Empire. Probably I'll play right into TIM's gambit with this decision, but from in-world knowledge I couldn't make any other.
Knowing this is a story, we'll be able to avoid both bad outcomes if we want - but my Shepard doesn't know that. Also, I hope Bioware are serious enough in their depiction of morality that the decision to destroy the base will come back to haunt you, just as we know keeping it will do.

Yes, but Miranda is as human as any other and she let her emotions rule over her better judgement.  I don't think this was out of character for her.  She saw what was happening at the base and it affected her on an emotional level.  She let that rule her judgement.

I always feel that Miranda has been questioning Cerberus for awhile, and the incident at the base was just the icing on the cake.  I see her many attempts at justifying Cerberus' actions to Shepard as also an attempt to justify them to herself and to convice herself that what they are doing is right (though she may doubt it).  This is how I interpreted the character, at least.

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...
Does anyone have any key aspects of Miranda personalty that needs to be addressed in Mass Effect 3?

I think she'll have to re-think her opinion of TIM, especially after Overlord. And that regardless of whether or not she resigns in ME2. Apart from that, I'd like her to stay more or less the same. In particular, I don't want her to become more Paragon. Right now she's somewhere in the middle, and I like that about her.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Don't get me started. Miranda's advice is out of character for her. If she'd said she doesn't trust TIM anymore, that she'd been mistaken in believing humanity's best interest lied with him - I could have taken that seriously.
It wouldn't have changed my preferred decision, though - I take Legion's advice, or rather, Legion echoes what I think. In short, the knowledge contained in the base must not be destroyed, and if that means letting TIM have it - for a time - then I'm prepared to live with the consquences. In other words, ensuring the survival of intelligent life in the galaxy as we know it and the end of the Reapers' extinction cycle, that's worth bringing about the Evil Empire. Probably I'll play right into TIM's gambit with this decision, but from in-world knowledge I couldn't make any other.
Knowing this is a story, we'll be able to avoid both bad outcomes if we want - but my Shepard doesn't know that. Also, I hope Bioware are serious enough in their depiction of morality that the decision to destroy the base will come back to haunt you, just as we know keeping it will do.

Yes, but Miranda is as human as any other and she let her emotions rule over her better judgement.  I don't think this was out of character for her.  She saw what was happening at the base and it affected her on an emotional level.  She let that rule her judgement.

It comes so sudden that it's jarring. I'm glad she doesn't say anything if you select the middle option.

I always feel that Miranda has been questioning Cerberus for awhile, and the incident at the base was just the icing on the cake.  I see her many attempts at justifying Cerberus' actions to Shepard as also an attempt to justify them to herself and to convice herself that what they are doing is right (though she may doubt it).  This is how I interpreted the character, at least.

It's a valid interpretation. I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with how the game shows us that in the end. And it wouldn't be a big matter if it didn't make me fear for Miranda's future character development. I think she does still believe in Cerberus' goals if not its methods, and while she draws the line much earlier than TIM, she still has a ruthless streak. I would very much dislike it if she lost that. That wouldn't be the Miranda I like anymore.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 07:58 .

[jlb524]

I fear for her future character development as well. Given my interpretation, I didn't think the Collector base decision was all that jarring...I expected as much from Miranda. I was a bit pleasantly surprised, but then after I thought about it, it made sense (as I interpret her character).



I do agree they could have executed the build up better. Jacob also advises you to destroy the base, but his distrust is presented better in game. Miranda's is a bit more nuanced.



I am curious how they will handle her resigning in ME3.

[Ieldra]

Andaius20 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I wonder how Miranda would react to the Overlord ending?  I assume most have played it here, correct?

We've been over that in the last few pages. It seems to be consensus that this might remove some of her illusions about TIM.

@Andaius20:
In most of my games she doesn't resign, so that's no argument. But I'd say staying with TIM has its unpleasant aspects for her after this.

oh, you keep the base most of the time? Well then I think my two options are still relivent then. If she remains loyal to Cerberus she will try to explain it away liek she does al lthe other experiments in ME 1. IF she's not anymore she will most liekly not like whats being done.

My interpretation is that she doesn't like what Archer did. Period. But in one case that's a step leading to her resigning, and in the other she'll continue her now uncomfortable association because she has no alternatives. IMO the Overlord ending is beyond rationalization or interpretation as a "rogue cell" for someone like Miranda. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 09:30 .

[Ieldra]

Valmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Why confused? My latest post is written from a player's perspective, while my arguments for keeping the base are written from an in-world perspective. As Shepard, I could not make any other decision than to keep the base. As player and game critic I think it's desirable to make satisfying endings for both decision paths.

Because for months in this thread we have been agreeing to disagree about it.

IIRC, I have never argued that there shouldn't be a way to win if you choose to destroy the base. That's the part where we agree: there should be a satisfactory outcome for both decisions. What we still disagree about is that you think that the decision to destroy the base has a strong enough in-world argument going for it that this decision is compelling, while I think the same about keeping the base. 

Or have I misunderstood your opinion and you argued from a metagame perspective all the time?

Where we all seem to agree - almost everyone here with the possible exception of Sixth Goul, who hasn't said anything - is that Miranda would be strongly affected by seeing what happened at the Overlord project, and that this makes her sudden turnabout at the base more believable (if not her argument) if you play Overlord before the Collector base.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 10:11 .

[jtav]

Regarding the base, the choice should have been to give it to TIM or the Council. The base is neutral. The atrocities have already been committed. Using the knowledge gained from those atrocities is not wrong. You could argue that the real betrayal of the dead would be not using the base to fight the Reapers. It's only that the game forces my hand by making the only two choices "destroy it" ir "give it to the man least suited to having it."

[Ieldra]

^^Very much that. I also don't like that Miranda resigning is tied to destroying the base. Another undesirable consequence of this artificially restricted decision.

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Why confused? My latest post is written from a player's perspective, while my arguments for keeping the base are written from an in-world perspective. As Shepard, I could not make any other decision than to keep the base. As player and game critic I think it's desirable to make satisfying endings for both decision paths.

Because for months in this thread we have been agreeing to disagree about it.

IIRC, I have never argued that there shouldn't be a way to win if you choose to destroy the base. That's the part where we agree: there should be a satisfactory outcome for both decisions. What we still disagree about is that you think that the decision to destroy the base has a strong enough in-world argument going for it that this decision is compelling, while I think the same about keeping the base. 

Or have I misunderstood your opinion and you argued from a metagame perspective all the time?

Where we all seem to agree - almost everyone here with the possible exception of Sixth Goul, who hasn't said anything - is that Miranda would be strongly affected by seeing what happened at the Overlord project, and that this makes her sudden turnabout at the base more believable (if not her argument) if you play Overlord before the Collector base.

I wouldn't be against an alternative, I wouldn't do it personally, unless it was more nefarious than keeping the base that is. As long as the game doesn't end with one right moral choice or like both force unleashed andings.


Well, I haven't played the dlc yet,but I did read the logs and endings. So Miranda having strong emotions about it,yeah I could see it, I guess.I assume you mean ether extreme than yes, if not well also likely. I chalk those things up with with the reaper iff,collector base, and Niket you'll never know what Miranda you're going to get.

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW, youtube filters your song out...

Did it say something about it being block in you're country? If so I get that when trying to watch new Doctor Who episodes from the U.K. Tell me this solves it www.dailymotion.com/video/xfhap_danzig-her-black-wings_music Dailymotion sense it based in France shouldn't have any trouble.

[mass_zotz]

Good morning. Does anyone have picture that can cheer me up, I'm kinda feeling down.

[Ieldra]

mass_zotz wrote...

Good morning. Does anyone have picture that can cheer me up, I'm kinda feeling down.

How about this one:

[Ieldra]

Eh..double post, sorry.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 02:41 .

[Kastien]

gutty47 wrote...

Shepard and Miranda are like a binary star system. They both shine brightly and pull and push on each other but neither is diminished or dulled by the loss of the other.

Others tend to be more like planets orbiting Shepard with other LIs just being the closest planet.

This right here is the biggest reason why I support Miranda over all the others.

Also, posting in this thread just in case post count per character determines amount of presence in ME3.

Just in case.

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
[..]there should be a satisfactory outcome for both decisions.

I wouldn't be against an alternative, I wouldn't do it personally, unless it was more nefarious than keeping the base that is. As long as the game doesn't end with one right moral choice or like both force unleashed andings.

Yes, that's it exactly. I don't want "one right moral choice". Don't know Force Unleashed, though. How did that end?

Well, I haven't played the dlc yet,but I did read the logs and endings. So Miranda having strong emotions about it,yeah I could see it, I guess.I assume you mean ether extreme than yes, if not well also likely. I chalk those things up with with the reaper iff,collector base, and Niket you'll never know what Miranda you're going to get.

Miranda isn't that unpredictable. Remember how she disavows Cerberus' atrocities as the work of rogue cells, only justifying those projects that really aren't that bad? I don't mean either extreme, I have no doubt she wouldn't like what was done in Project Overlord at all. Only this time it clearly isn't a rogue cell. Niket betrayed her, her reaction is straightforward. At the base, yes, we've talked about that repeatedly. But it's the only time so far that doesn't seem to fit. 

Edit:
Got the song from elsewhere. Let's say it won't make it into my favorites.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[Ieldra]

Kastien wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

Shepard and Miranda are like a binary star system. They both shine brightly and pull and push on each other but neither is diminished or dulled by the loss of the other.

Others tend to be more like planets orbiting Shepard with other LIs just being the closest planet.

This right here is the biggest reason why I support Miranda over all the others.

Also, posting in this thread just in case post count per character determines amount of presence in ME3.

:lol:
That won't happen, I'm sure of it. For then Tali would get four times the presence of anyone else....

And yes, gutty47's statement is very fitting.

[mass_zotz]

Thanks a lot Ieldra2, much appreciate and it help too. ^_^

[jtav]

I don't think they really pay attention to the threads. This is just for discussion/speculation/pics/fanwork.

[mass_zotz]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
[..]there should be a satisfactory outcome for both decisions.

I wouldn't be against an alternative, I wouldn't do it personally, unless it was more nefarious than keeping the base that is. As long as the game doesn't end with one right moral choice or like both force unleashed andings.

Yes, that's it exactly. I don't want "one right moral choice". Don't know Force Unleashed, though. How did that end?

In Forced Unleashed you either attack and defeat Emperor Palpatine, Kota prevents Starkiller from
killing Palpatine in hatred and Starkiller dies while absorbing the Emperor's renewed attack but save everyone else and then the survivors create the rebillion, or you kill Vader and all your allies die including Juno Eclipse and you become the Emperors puppet.

Edit: I'll be back in like 2 hours.

Modifié par mass_zotz, 18 juin 2010 - 03:03 .

[Ieldra]

I always knew Star Wars made no sense....

[Ieldra]

Just finished the Renegade ending of Overlord. I must say they make it easy for you to believe TIM isn't that bad. Shepard isn't callous, and if you want you can make yourself believe David will be better cared for in future. Sounds rather naive for a Renegade, though.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juin 2010 - 04:05 .