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[philiposophy]

Elyvern wrote...

philiposophy wrote...

Wrapped up my latest playthrough today (well the Suicide Mission anyway). Was fortunate enough to get the fantastic balance of Shepard pulling up Miranda on the platforms, and then Miranda pulling Shepard onto the Normandy. Awesome.

The squadmate whose icon is at the right will always be the one Shepard rescues from falling. Pacifien's tests have also shown that if you take Miranda with you to the final boss and she survives, she will always be the one to pull you up. There's a priority list, and she's right at the top. The same squadmate at the right will always be the one to hand Shep the charges to blow up the base, and Miranda will always be the one to activate the omni-tool when you talk to TIM at the CB. I always make sure that all happens so she basically does everything in the whole final fight to the extent sometimes I forget who I bring along as the second squadmate.  

Can you determine which squadmate is on the right? Like, when you select your squaddies at the start of the platforms sequence?

[Elyvern]

Reloading changes their positions. So just reload till whoever you want is on the right. But it also means if you die, they may get swapped around again.

[philiposophy]

Elyvern wrote...

Reloading changes their positions. So just reload till whoever you want is on the right. But it also means if you die, they may get swapped around again.

Lucky for me then that I *did* reload once. My Cain shot missed the Terminator (somehow, I swear I hit it dead centre), so I reloaded the autosave. Otherwise it would have been Thane getting saved instead. He's great, but Miranda is better cinematically.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Modifié par philiposophy, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:37 .

[hooahguy]

More pictures!



I think Miri looks really sexy in this one:





Overall gorgeous in this one:





Miri's softer side:





This one is just funny- beauty and the beast (Grunt):

[Elyvern]

philiposophy wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

Reloading changes their positions. So just reload till whoever you want is on the right. But it also means if you die, they may get swapped around again.

Lucky for me then that I *did* reload once. My Cain shot missed the Terminator (somehow, I swear I hit it dead centre), so I reloaded the autosave. Otherwise it would have been Thane getting saved instead. He's great, but Miranda is better cinematically.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

No probs.
http://social.biowar...33016/6#3018104

Pacifien's post is great for all sorts of cinematic permutations. I've always wanted to try leaving just one person to hold the line. Apparently, a loyal Miranda can do it all by herself. (HtL score: 2.0) Rawr! But I'm not sure if it's possible to kill off so many of the squad to achieve that scenario. It would definitely be a scream to watch though!

Modifié par Elyvern, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:00 .

[philiposophy]

Thanks for the link. I'm interested in seeing Miranda's status report line now. Unfortunately I can't force myself to kill off squadmates even if it's FOR SCIENCE, so there's no way I'll be able to see it.

Does anyone know what she says or have a video of it/screenshot?

[fongiel24]

I'm about 85% sure (completely arbitrary number that was higher than 75% but less than 100%) that selecting Miranda first on the character selection screen will get her put into the slot on the right.

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm about 85% sure (completely arbitrary number that was higher than 75% but less than 100%) that selecting Miranda first on the character selection screen will get her put into the slot on the right.

Yes, I'd forgot about that too. And I can't be 100% sure, but I always tend to choose Miranda last but she seems to appear on the right as a result. 

@philiposophy: sorry, couldn't find anything on youtube. I'm not surprised though. For her to give the status report, she'll need to be the only person holding the line, which means a bloodbath run. That takes a lot of planning.

Modifié par Elyvern, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:31 .

[Arijharn]

Actually, the whole idea that people like blondes will eventually be bred out of humanity due to interbreeding between different cultures is complete and utter bs... I'm kinda surprised that Drew just copied that trope verbatim... unless of course it was deliberate :S

[fongiel24]

Elyvern wrote..

Yes, I'd forgot about that too. And I can't be 100% sure, but I always tend to choose Miranda last but she seems to appear on the right as a result. 

@philiposophy: sorry, couldn't find anything on youtube. I'm not surprised though. For her to give the status report, she'll need to be the only person holding the line, which means a bloodbath run. That takes a lot of planning.

This isn't always the case, but I've found that often in everywhere other than the final sequence, the first person chosen will be on the left, the second person chosen on the right.

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

Actually, the whole idea that people like blondes will eventually be bred out of humanity due to interbreeding between different cultures is complete and utter bs... I'm kinda surprised that Drew just copied that trope verbatim... unless of course it was deliberate :S

I've seen that mentioned several times on these boards. Does anyone have a link to a proper study? Because offhand, it does seem to make sense, assuming there is close to 100% interbreeding rates and factoring things like current population demographics. After all, 2 billion chinese + 1.2 billion indians means more than half of the world's current population are Asians with dark eyes and hair. Rough numbers I know, because 2 billion chinese aren't all han chinese, and northern indians have eurasian characteristics. Let's say we off set their numbers with the rest of asia's population. I'd expect that asiatic blood and racial features would be present in many human populations in ME.  

Modifié par Elyvern, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:24 .

[Arijharn]

 Here's a link (obviously, read to the end): BBC, another at Wikipedia, and yet another one as well. And for further clarification, here's a statement from WHO itself (World Health Organization) who (ha! pun not fully intended) was allegedly the ones who made the 'study' in the first place.

Convinced yet?

Modifié par Arijharn, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:30 .

[Elyvern]

Thanks. Although the gist of these articles seem to be about exposing the fact that no proper scientific studies has been conducted. If interracial breeding is as prevalent as ME makes it out to be, it does seem that blonde hair and blue eyes will indeed become a rarity in the general human population.

[Arijharn]

:\\\\ Only if they aren't 'ideal' genes or they are genes that are selected against. Which is not likely at all to occur. It's like you'd have a higher statistical likelihood of getting struck by lightning 5 times, run over by a bus, get abducted by Aliens (Hanar?) and then had a visitation from the second coming of Christ while shopping for presents for your loved ones while being escorted by the ghosts of Abraham Lincoln and Mother Teresa.

Modifié par Arijharn, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:46 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'm beginning to suspect you have no idea of what being seductive really means. As a means of allure, Miranda's standard outfit and the camera angle are about the cheapest imaginable way to go about it. They push her sexual attributes into people's faces, and that's not seductive put pushy, and often crosses the line where things become repulsive instead. Indeed, I think that they don't fit her character because her backgrund indicates she would be seductive in a classy and stylish way.
I also think the camera angles are a way to make fun of the cliché by overemphasizing it - recall that scene where the "investigate" option is centered on her ass. You can't seriously believe we are supposed to take that at face value, can you? Enyala's comments are a clear indication the designers were well aware of how silly and inappropriate the outfit looks. 

Corollary: there must be an in-world purpose behind Jack going into a combat mission naked. In SPACE! Without an air supply!! Ever heard of "artistic license"? Miranda's outfit is a clear example for the Rule of Sexy. Indeed the game designers had an intent: they wanted to invest Miranda with as much visual sexiness as possible, with plausibility taking a back seat in the process. TV, movies, games, any form of visual art is full of outfits no sane person would wear in reality - and you say we should invent an in-world purpose for it? Miranda at least has the dubious distinction that a sexy outfit fits her character concept somewhat, but to seriously believe any kind of operative, even one like Miranda, would wear such things on combat missions or while strolling through Omega beggars comprehension. 

Are you blind? Tali's body is as sexy as they could make an alien look while still keeping it somewhat alien, and the mask gives her a stronger aura of mystery than Miranda ever exhibits.

I have one game where my Shepard destroyed the base, Miranda resigns from Cerberus and they are together. That's how the game ends, yes. And now? There's nothing more to be said. Anything more is speculation, and if you think your invention of a possible future is more than that then you're dogmatic. 

All in all, if I may recite Maelon: "For such a smart man, you always had trouble to accept evidence that disagreed with your preconceptions." You make Miranda fit your preconceptions of those "pervading themes" you like to quote. There is not a shred of tangible evidence for Miranda being the femme fatale she was advertised as, not for Shepard, anyway. I'll tell you what such could be: if you could romance Miranda without having her loyalty, and as a result she'd follow TIM's orders at the Collector base and prevent Shepard from destroying it, while without romancing her, Shepard wouldn't trust her enough to give her the opportunity. That would make her a femme fatale. I would have liked such a more complex scenario, I would've preferred it to what we've got, where romance and loyalty play no part in how the confrontation with TIM goes. But that's not what happens, not even remotely. Miranda is not a femme fatale for Shepard. What's in her history is another story, but that's not what we're talking about.

Well. It is clear to me that neither one of us is ever going to convince the other. And I admit my own aggression in this argument likely made it impossible for us to really host an intelligent discussion. And for that I apologize.

I can't help but feel like you keep putting words in my mouth, but when I go back and re-read portions of my argument I can see how they could have been misunderstood. That being said, let me agree with you in saying that in the vast majority of cases Miranda is not a Femme Fatale. I see how and why she isn't just as easily as I see how and why she is. My argument always centered around a very specific series of events that obviously did not apply otherwise. Outside of these events she is not a Femme Fatale. Within these events she could be but is not necessarily one.

And clearly, in either case, we have no confirmation as to what she is going to turn out to be as we only got the chance to witness the beginning of her relationship with Shepard in any sense and we'll just have to wait for the conclusion.

So, putting our argument aside, as I do feel it is only serving to create anamosity within an otherwise positive thread and I do not with to spread any additional negativity to what I alwasy have (which again, I apologize for), I do have one question.

Do you take the term Femme Fatale to be an insult? Because for me it implies a great amount of respect and admiration. Especially when it comes to Miranda.

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

:\\\\\\\\ Only if they aren't 'ideal' genes or they are genes that are selected against. Which is not likely at all to occur. It's like you'd have a higher statistical likelihood of getting struck by lightning 5 times, run over by a bus, get abducted by Aliens (Hanar?) and then had a visitation from the second coming of Christ while shopping for presents for your loved ones while being escorted by the ghosts of Abraham Lincoln and Mother Teresa.

I'm afraid all of that just went woooosh over my head, sorry.  What are you trying to say?

[Arijharn]

Elyvern wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Only if they aren't 'ideal' genes or they are genes that are selected against. Which is not likely at all to occur. It's like you'd have a higher statistical likelihood of getting struck by lightning 5 times, run over by a bus, get abducted by Aliens (Hanar?) and then had a visitation from the second coming of Christ while shopping for presents for your loved ones while being escorted by the ghosts of Abraham Lincoln and Mother Teresa.

I'm afraid all of that just went woooosh over my head, sorry.  What are you trying to say?

That it's such a minute possibility that to say that it has a real chance is rather unsupported. To be pedantic though sure it could happen, but it could happen that Sol goes supernova in our lifetimes too by some extraordinary circumstance as well. Basically what I'm saying is this; don't give it any credibility. 

[Arijharn]

Actually scratch that, I don't even think it could happen because the genetic trait would have to be marked as undesirable. If suddenly no human in the world had children by a blonde parent for an x period of time (a decade?) then maybe, but since that's quite frankly impossible, then I can't see how that statement could possibly be correct.

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Only if they aren't 'ideal' genes or they are genes that are selected against. Which is not likely at all to occur. It's like you'd have a higher statistical likelihood of getting struck by lightning 5 times, run over by a bus, get abducted by Aliens (Hanar?) and then had a visitation from the second coming of Christ while shopping for presents for your loved ones while being escorted by the ghosts of Abraham Lincoln and Mother Teresa.

I'm afraid all of that just went woooosh over my head, sorry.  What are you trying to say?

That it's such a minute possibility that to say that it has a real chance is rather unsupported. To be pedantic though sure it could happen, but it could happen that Sol goes supernova in our lifetimes too by some extraordinary circumstance as well. Basically what I'm saying is this; don't give it any credibility. 

Mmm...note I didn't say those characteristics will go extinct though, but that they'll be a rarity. It's ridiculous to think that genes, even recessive, can be simply bred out of the gene pool. Unless someone systematically goes around killing every and anyone with those genes, then maybe. But they will definitely be around, only that it'll be harder to find two parents with the right combination of recessive genes (especially since eye colour is actually determined by more than a single pair of genes) for the trait to manifest phenotypically.  

[Arijharn]

But how could you say that it would be likely that such an event would happen in in time for the ME universe? People will create children with their partners, there's nothing really to suggest that the collapsing of conventional borders (aka travel) will make people more or less likely to breed out those types of traits. It seems to me that your argument is that there'd be a very very slight eugenics program in place that makes it more likely that people will hook up with perhaps Asian's for example (because, when was the last time you saw an asian with blonde hair and blue eyes? -- naturally of course) and I can't see that would be possible to the extent of making blonde hair itself a rarity.

[Alessar]

It's also very unlikely because skin color isn't acted upon by one gene, it is polygenic. Aka you have various genes working together to give a certain skin color or a degree of skin color. It's something that isn't very easily predicted since most traits or disorders that are effected by more than one gene are hard to fully understand.

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

But how could you say that it would be likely that such an event would happen in in time for the ME universe? People will create children with their partners, there's nothing really to suggest that the collapsing of conventional borders (aka travel) will make people more or less likely to breed out those types of traits. It seems to me that your argument is that there'd be a very very slight eugenics program in place that makes it more likely that people will hook up with perhaps Asian's for example (because, when was the last time you saw an asian with blonde hair and blue eyes? -- naturally of course) and I can't see that would be possible to the extent of making blonde hair itself a rarity.

Because this is what the novels keep stating: that inter-ethnic breeding is a norm, and assuming that certain characteristics are recessive and are endemic to a minority portion of the human population, then high interracial breeding rate means those recessive traits will emerge less and less often. This is just regular extrapolation of current population demographics and breeding trends as laid out by Bioware writers. You can argue there could be a tendency for people marry others more closely tied to their ethnic groups, but the prevalence of dark hair and eyes and darker skin tones described in the novels suggest this isn't the case, and that it's more like a thorough mixing of all the Earth's populations where north european racial characteristics have melded into the majority of the human population which are predominantly asian and thus dark haired & dark eyed. Realistically speaking, how plausible this is is as you said up in the air. But in the ME universe, it seems like the writers have decreed that to be so. Without more information, we'd just have to take them at face value, and if that is the direction they are going, then yes, blonde hair and blue eyes will be a rarity.   

Modifié par Elyvern, 29 octobre 2010 - 01:38 .

[Mondo47]

It's almost become a trope of contemporary sci-fi now; this idea that not only in the future there will be robots, but everyone will have a touch of olive or cofee-colour to their skin and redheads and blondes and pure caucasians will be somehow extinct due only to our globalised culture. I've only really noticed it a lot in the past decade or so, so I have no idea if it's harking back to something mooted back in the golden age of sci-fi, or it's based on modern thoughts about genetic migration, but sometimes I'd like to go back in time, find out who's to blame, and kick 'em in the shins... damn thing gets treated like gospel now!

Modifié par Mondo47, 29 octobre 2010 - 01:46 .

[Arijharn]

I can't really dismiss the combined population totals of places such as NZ, Aus, Canada, the USA, Europe including the Scandinavian countries as being a miniscule amount. It's a viable genetic pool for example. It may not be as populous as those of asian decent, but that isn't really relevant surely, because it's still sizeable.



How can you accept this at face value, but not other aspects of the game (*cough*Miranda*cough*) ?

[Arijharn]

To expound;I have to say that I dismiss this as being an example of being poorly thought 'science' for the same reason that I dismiss the concept of Miranda's sterility as being untreatable or uncurable

Modifié par Arijharn, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:14 .