15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

well i'm assuming they won't re-set your romances for ME3, so if we do see the "coldness" it would be most likely aimed at other people in the future anyway, if we see it at all.



redundant argument is redundant.



i liked that about her character at first, and i like the changes she undergoes through the game, i just hope they don't carry it too far.

[t3HPrO]

Did anyone ever notice a disparity in Miranda's lines on LS? First, she says that 'you're the only one that matters', and then she tells you that you're 'welcome to rot with the mechs'. Eh, bioware? More writing fail?

[Elyvern]

That's easy to interpret as an attempt to push Shepard's button. She has the only shuttle out of the station, in that position, she could say anything contradictory, but Shepard would still have to follow her lead. The real writing fail in that part is saying she couldn't risk Wilson harming Shepard. There's 3 of them vs one of Wilson who is injured. They could've easily captured Wilson alive.

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

That's easy to interpret as an attempt to push Shepard's button. She has the only shuttle out of the station, in that position, she could say anything contradictory, but Shepard would still have to follow her lead. The real writing fail in that part is saying she couldn't risk Wilson harming Shepard. There's 3 of them vs one of Wilson who is injured. They could've easily captured Wilson alive.

expediency and showing shepard what she's capable of - at the time probably best way to achieve all those things (given what was to come - i.e. her becoming his subordinate and all...).

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
I found it to be excessive on Lazarus. On Minuteman, it wasn't so bad as I could chalk it up to being completely job-focused. However, there still isn't much of an excuse for treating Shep and Jacob like kids after killing Wilson(guy had it coming). Besides, with both Miri and Jacob being combat trained biotics, you would think that apprehending Wilson would be child's play...

What exactly did you find excessive? I don't have a game with that dialogue at the moment, and the online dialogue tree doesn't have the scene with Wilson. I had assumed that you objected to the Minuteman station dialogue, which I actually like.

On Lazarus station, what I didn't like was the response she gave when Shepard says "now we can't interrogate him" after she killed Wilson. "No time", really? Knock him out and that's done. She did make an impressive entrance with killing Wilson, I'd just prefer to see a more plausible reason.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 novembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Ryzaki]

Elyvern wrote...

That's easy to interpret as an attempt to push Shepard's button. She has the only shuttle out of the station, in that position, she could say anything contradictory, but Shepard would still have to follow her lead. The real writing fail in that part is saying she couldn't risk Wilson harming Shepard. There's 3 of them vs one of Wilson who is injured. They could've easily captured Wilson alive.

Except for the fact that Shep Sue depending on class is more than enough to take the two of them out.

Which is what I absolutely loathed. So my Shepard who can take out a mecha-chutlu in turian form is somehow scared of two humans? Both of whom can be part of a organization he loathes and (potentially) ruined his life? 

Edit: @warming Miranda up: Frankly I agree. But just towards a Shep who did her loyalty mission. She'd still be ice queen to everyone else.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[Nightwriter]

t3HPrO wrote...

@nightwriter
I found it to be excessive on Lazarus. On Minuteman, it wasn't so bad as I could chalk it up to being completely job-focused. However, there still isn't much of an excuse for treating Shep and Jacob like kids after killing Wilson(guy had it coming). Besides, with both Miri and Jacob being combat trained biotics, you would think that apprehending Wilson would be child's play...

What, specifically, was excessive? Her shooting Wilson? I don't think that was excessive, I think it was poorly explained.

The way she sort of talks down to Jacob or Shepard? Maybe tell me the specific lines that made you feel she was doing that. How coldly she acts toward you after you talk to TIM? I actually kind of liked that, I just would've done it a bit differently.

Also, sitting by your mom's hospital bed is so lame. And there's only ever like one recliner per hospital floor and someone else always has it. Now you have to sleep sitting up. Maybe use another chair as a foot rest. All the while hearing that beep... beep... beep... beep...

[jtav]

I think I may have stumbled on an in-game explanation for her change in personality on the SR-2. TIM says that he's made it clear to both Miranda and Jacob that you're in charge after Freedom's Progress. I got the impression that he'd given them a rather...forceful lecture to that effect. Which doesn't explain why Shep doesn't seem to notice and why he has to be so nice to her. I'm still trying to figure out how best to RP a Sole Survivor that despises her for what she represents. Suggestions?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I think I may have stumbled on an in-game explanation for her change in personality on the SR-2. TIM says that he's made it clear to both Miranda and Jacob that you're in charge after Freedom's Progress. I got the impression that he'd given them a rather...forceful lecture to that effect.

That doesn't sound so plausible if you ask me. I imagine Miranda getting a forceful lecture about this - wouldn't she be even more detached than before as a result? I know it would have that effect on me. I'd be professional, yes, but personally more approachable? Less than ever.

Which doesn't explain why Shep doesn't seem to notice and why he has to be so nice to her. I'm still trying to figure out how best to RP a Sole Survivor that despises her for what she represents. Suggestions?

Hmm...the most plausible path would be to speak as little with her as you can. But that wouldn't be interesting, and make the loyalty mission briefing even more jarring for a Sole Survivor. I guess you do want to do her LM to make Shepard see she's more than a Cerberus lapdog? Perhaps you can leave certain conversation options out in the pre-Horizon ones?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I think I may have stumbled on an in-game explanation for her change in personality on the SR-2. TIM says that he's made it clear to both Miranda and Jacob that you're in charge after Freedom's Progress. I got the impression that he'd given them a rather...forceful lecture to that effect. Which doesn't explain why Shep doesn't seem to notice and why he has to be so nice to her.

Yeah, I'm with Ieldra on this one. It would make sense if she only became more polite, but Miranda post-Minuteman actually seems... friendly. It really feels like Bioware left a bunch of Shepard/Miranda interaction on the cutting room floor and skipped ahead.

[jtav]

Actually, I'm thinking of not doing her LM. He's never going to soften towards her ever, if I have the nerve to play that. Side with Jack (LI) if I do both missions. He's not going to get that she's more than a "Cerberus b*tch" until her resignation. Again, if I can force myself to play that way.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out how best to RP a Sole Survivor that despises her for what she represents. Suggestions?

Maybe you could pretend Shepard is putting aside his feelings for the sake of the mission. Stopping the Reapers is more important to Shepard than anything, even getting vengeance or justice for his dead comrades. Since Cerberus is the only group with resources willing to help him, he really has no choice but to shake hands with the devil. Even though he despises Miranda and everything she stands for, she is his XO and he's trying to be civil so they can at least work together temporarily.

[hooahguy]

jtav wrote...

Actually, I'm thinking of not doing her LM. He's never going to soften towards her ever, if I have the nerve to play that. Side with Jack (LI) if I do both missions. He's not going to get that she's more than a "Cerberus b*tch" until her resignation. Again, if I can force myself to play that way.

But if you dont do her LM, then wont she die at the Human-Reaper? 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Actually, I'm thinking of not doing her LM. He's never going to soften towards her ever, if I have the nerve to play that. Side with Jack (LI) if I do both missions. He's not going to get that she's more than a "Cerberus b*tch" until her resignation. Again, if I can force myself to play that way.

I don't recall my last game without Miranda in the final fight, if there ever was one. Will you hear her resign even if she's not in the squad at that time? I can't imagine your Shepard would want to bring her with him.

Needless to say, it's not a game I'd even want to play. Possibly I can force myself to play a game why my Shepard stayed with Ashley, but that's about all. Of course, I'm not bugged by the occasional feeling that I should hate her, so I have no motivation to play a Shepard who does. Even my femShep Sole Survivor will know Miranda's a person they can respect at least somewhat after her LM. Male Sole Survivors drawn to her like on a rubber band, that's something to address in a fanfic some day....  

[Ryzaki]

hooahguy wrote...

jtav wrote...

Actually, I'm thinking of not doing her LM. He's never going to soften towards her ever, if I have the nerve to play that. Side with Jack (LI) if I do both missions. He's not going to get that she's more than a "Cerberus b*tch" until her resignation. Again, if I can force myself to play that way.

But if you dont do her LM, then wont she die at the Human-Reaper? 

Tis fanfiction can't s/he take liberties with that sort of thing? 

Edit: NVM apparently not a fanfic.

I guess she'd end up dead. Though it would fit the whole Shepard looking sadly at her coffin. He just started to respect her and she ups and dies.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[jtav]

hooahguy wrote...

But if you dont do her LM, then wont she die at the Human-Reaper? 

I'm thinking about killing off all Cerberus personnel in this game. Thinking, mind you. I don't know if I can actually do it. There's a certain dramatic appeal in the resignation/death juxtaposition, but I'm fond of her in a way Shepard is decidedly not.

If I haven't been hunted down with torches and pitchforks for that, I need a little help. Do you think Miranda would be the type of person to be self-conscious about scars? They would normally be concealed by her uniform (on casual inspection, they appear to be burns  on her arm and chest), but they would obviously be noticeable during sex. Her partner (Shepard) already knows how she got them and is indirectly responsible.

[enayasoul]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out how best to RP a Sole Survivor that despises her for what she represents. Suggestions?

Maybe you could pretend Shepard is putting aside his feelings for the sake of the mission. Stopping the Reapers is more important to Shepard than anything, even getting vengeance or justice for his dead comrades. Since Cerberus is the only group with resources willing to help him, he really has no choice but to shake hands with the devil. Even though he despises Miranda and everything she stands for, she is his XO and he's trying to be civil so they can at least work together temporarily.

Could lead to some heated debates between Shep and Miranda... maybe even sexual tension... and the kicker he falls for her despite his hate for her... 

Who can escape the beautiful and intelligent woman we know and love, Miranda.

Modifié par enayasoul, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Chaota Vos]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't recall my last game without Miranda in the final fight, if there ever was one. Will you hear her resign even if she's not in the squad at that time? I can't imagine your Shepard would want to bring her with him.

She only resigns if she's in the squad during the final fight.

[aeetos21]

In order to keep things kosher for the ME3 carry over I think its pretty likely that Miranda will resign from Cerberus no matter what - same with Jacob. Otherwise those two will have two radically different storylines should they carry on into ME3 compared to those who did have her resign in the end boss fight.



I respect what you're saying th3pro but I agree with the idea that that would alter her personality too much. Maybe if BW provided some more story to her character we could see further "thawing" but to soften her up too much would be completely OOC. One of the reasons I like Miranda so much is that unlike some of the other LI's I can actually see my Shepard going down fighting with her. I'm reminded of the conversation with Grunt when he and Shepard talk about how they want to go out and Shepard can say that he/she don't plan on doing this forever or something more like "Hell yeah: never gonna quit, never gonna stop, keep fighting the good fight until it kills us."



I've been working on an outline for a possible fanfic starring my own Shep and it turns out that when all is said and done Shepard is 32 when he was killed and technically 34 by the end of ME2 (if you count his years on the operating table). Miranda is 38 and I like to think that with Shepard's upgrades he'll probably live about as long as her. Hell you can technically have Shep take part in all three psychological profile missions: Elysium, Akuze, and then Torfan respectfully in that order.



Anyway off-topic tangent over with... First off the following is all speculation but I see Tali wanting to settle down on her homeworld, I can't really see her pairing up with my Shepard for a career of fighting pirates, mercs, or what have you. Garrus probably would for a femshep romance. Ashley will likely be with the Alliance and she seems more like the want to settle down and have a family of her own type. Jack... either on her own or would be a good pair for a renagon Shep. I can see Liara fighting with Shepard but only if she gets out of the information broker business and feels she could do more good fighting by his/her side. Kaidan, Jacob, and Thane I honestly don't have a clue about. I always kept Chambers at arm length so no comment there either.



But yeah, /end rant I guess.

[fongiel24]

aeetos21 wrote...

I've been working on an outline for a possible fanfic starring my own Shep and it turns out that when all is said and done Shepard is 32 when he was killed and technically 34 by the end of ME2 (if you count his years on the operating table). Miranda is 38 and I like to think that with Shepard's upgrades he'll probably live about as long as her. Hell you can technically have Shep take part in all three psychological profile missions: Elysium, Akuze, and then Torfan respectfully in that order.

I did this with my canon Shep that I used for my fics. He has both the War Hero and Ruthless backgrounds, becoming the Alliance's greatest hero after Elysium, then its worst war criminal after Torfan. As you say, there's nothing about the three backgrounds that would make them mutually exclusive, since chronologically the defining events can follow one after another.

[jtav]

I'm having a lot of fun creating a Shepard for something I'm working on now. As long as I think of him as "Gavin" (uncool name is deliberate) and not as "Shepard" I relate to him more. I'm giving him a fondness for classical music and, more controversially, I also made him a practicing Catholic, though not a very good one. He talks to himself a lot and has a really dry wit. He despises Miranda for being Cerberus, but he's also smart enough to listen to her when she's right and not spite her. He finds her physically attractive, but reasons that there are lots of attractive women in the galaxy, so there's no reason for him to think with the wrong head and throw her against the nearest bulkhead or anything. He's a thirty-year-old man and is very much in control of himself. I despise "Slap, slap kiss" plots. She won't become something more than an attractive symbol of the devil's bargain he made until Grunt's loyalty mission. After that, he realizes that he owes her for saving him at personal cost to herself. She stops being Operative Lawson and starts being Miranda to him..

Modifié par jtav, 03 novembre 2010 - 12:59 .

[aeetos21]

I like angst - real angst at least - because it adds depth and symbolizes individual strife (something to overcome in a story). Some of the most passionate relationships are the slap slap kiss. That doesn't mean they are healthy by any sort and if they become something long term then in the end they will only end up hurting the persons involved in the long run.



I like how you chose Grunt's loyalty mission as the turningpoint in Shepard's viewpoint towards Miranda. Her backstory is very similar to Grunt's and she couldn't be more right when she said: "If he'll even help. I doubt anyone has ever asked his opinion on anything." The downside though is when she recommends selling Grunt to Cerberus scientists (that pissed me off).



I'm interested to see how you'll work in the practicing Catholic bit since I too am technically of that sect but have a lot of reservations about the Roman Catholic church's interpretactions and human mandated doctrine. When you factor in the discovery on Mars and how people began abandoning older religious beliefs because other intelligent species in the galaxy conflicts with the idea that God created man in his image... the codex says a some religions tried to adjust their dogma to incorporate the new life, others crumbled and still others simply turned inward and pretended that aliens and other intelligent life simply didn't exist. I'm not saying that thousands of years of religion will vanish after a hundred years or so of advanced life in the galaxy but it definitely is something to consider. Also I can't remember if Ash's faith in God and heaven was entirely Christian based. It certainly seems like it but I don't remember if she referenced it directly.



Anyway, definitely sounds like a good read.

[Ieldra]

aeetos21 wrote...
I've been working on an outline for a possible fanfic starring my own Shep and it turns out that when all is said and done Shepard is 32 when he was killed and technically 34 by the end of ME2 (if you count his years on the operating table). Miranda is 38 and I like to think that with Shepard's upgrades he'll probably live about as long as her. Hell you can technically have Shep take part in all three psychological profile missions: Elysium, Akuze, and then Torfan respectfully in that order.

Canonically, Miranda is 35 in 2185, and Shepard is 31 if you count the two years spent "evading taxes". Source: http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Timeline. Shepard was born 2154 and Miranda 2150.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 novembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[Prudii Aden]

Slightly less serious question fellow Miranda fans - is it a bad thing that when doing Miranda's loyalty mission and playing a class with sniper rifles, I always use them on Enyala, just to make sure she goes down hard?

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...
Slightly less serious question fellow Miranda fans - is it a bad thing that when doing Miranda's loyalty mission and playing a class with sniper rifles, I always use them on Enyala, just to make sure she goes down hard?

I'm more for playing this pragmatically, as this fight is one of of more annoying in the game, almost on par with closing the middle bulkhead on Garrus' recruitment mission and the first fight on the Collector ship. As a rule, I don't use sniper rifles on enemies who don't go down from one shot.

I wish Miranda could do ingame what she does in the preceding dialogue scene. Enyala would be a prime candidate for the standard ME1 anti-krogan tactic: wait until they charge, then lift them up, so that their inertia lets them fly out into the middle of nowhere. Too bad that doesn't work in ME2 any more.