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[Jebel Krong]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Slightly less serious question fellow Miranda fans - is it a bad thing that when doing Miranda's loyalty mission and playing a class with sniper rifles, I always use them on Enyala, just to make sure she goes down hard?

nothing like ventilating her (or anyone else's) head into a red mist 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm having a lot of fun creating a Shepard for something I'm working on now. As long as I think of him as "Gavin" (uncool name is deliberate) and not as "Shepard" I relate to him more. I'm giving him a fondness for classical music and, more controversially, I also made him a practicing Catholic, though not a very good one. He talks to himself a lot and has a really dry wit. He despises Miranda for being Cerberus, but he's also smart enough to listen to her when she's right and not spite her. He finds her physically attractive, but reasons that there are lots of attractive women in the galaxy, so there's no reason for him to think with the wrong head and throw her against the nearest bulkhead or anything. He's a thirty-year-old man and is very much in control of himself. I despise "Slap, slap kiss" plots. She won't become something more than an attractive symbol of the devil's bargain he made until Grunt's loyalty mission. After that, he realizes that he owes her for saving him at personal cost to herself. She stops being Operative Lawson and starts being Miranda to him..

That sounds interesting. I like this Shepard. He fits Miranda. Well, apart from the Catholicism but nothing's perfect I guess.

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

I've been working on an outline for a possible fanfic starring my own Shep and it turns out that when all is said and done Shepard is 32 when he was killed and technically 34 by the end of ME2 (if you count his years on the operating table). Miranda is 38 and I like to think that with Shepard's upgrades he'll probably live about as long as her. Hell you can technically have Shep take part in all three psychological profile missions: Elysium, Akuze, and then Torfan respectfully in that order.

I did this with my canon Shep that I used for my fics. He has both the War Hero and Ruthless backgrounds, becoming the Alliance's greatest hero after Elysium, then its worst war criminal after Torfan. As you say, there's nothing about the three backgrounds that would make them mutually exclusive, since chronologically the defining events can follow one after another.

interesting because i always considered the 'war hero' as more of a renegade leaning background anyway - given ashley's grandfather was in the same situation (though the turians were undoubtedly better at it), and he had to surrender, i don't think you could defeat an orbital attack by pirates without getting a lot of (probably innocent) people killed, at best. it's not really fleshed out enough to be sure, but collateral damage is likely in any situation like that.

[Prudii Aden]

Generally, I'm pragmatic when fighting - certainly when fighting collector drones, scions and Harbinger (the Widow is wonderful for this for head shots), but I've found I really despise Enyala, so seeing her in the sniper scope jerking from bullet impact is oddly satisfying.



Never had a problem with the middle shutter on Garrus' recruitment mission. It's the one on the right that's the pain! Then again, I always do the middle one first. Never really used that tactic against krogan - always engaged them at range and kept them there!

[Jebel Krong]

you have to do the middle first, then either left or right, but the right (being open and more enemies already in place) is much harder anyway. it wouldn't be so difficult but for limited ammo *again* stupid system hobbling your class and the irony that your initial combat range is actually perfect for sniping, for once (but you have to move in to trigger more enemies and close the shutter).

oh and:



cr: haveatthee

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 novembre 2010 - 10:42 .

[jtav]

Touche, Ieldra. Religion isn't a big part of this story. It just helps me get into his head a bit, and it might be cut from the final draft. He's not that much like the in-game Shep. Probably for the best considering my distaste for canon Shepard and the romance. I wouldn't even call this a romance, more the beginnings of a relationship that might become a romance.



And I still have the third chapter of Persistence to finish. And Atonement, if I can ever figure out how to handle LotSB.

[Elyvern]

aeetos21 wrote...
I've been working on an outline for a possible fanfic starring my own Shep and it turns out that when all is said and done Shepard is 32 when he was killed and technically 34 by the end of ME2 (if you count his years on the operating table). Miranda is 38 and I like to think that with Shepard's upgrades he'll probably live about as long as her. Hell you can technically have Shep take part in all three psychological profile missions: Elysium, Akuze, and then Torfan respectfully in that order.

Interesting that you say that. I've always imagine my canon Shepard story to be like the archetypal Dylan Thomas kind of hero, raging against the dying of the light against where death has no dominion kind of thing. He's a tool of war who finds it hard to learn or know anything better. And when peace finally comes around, he has no idea what the hell to do. After killing the reapers, he'd have perform his swan song at the young age of 30+. He's put himself effectively out of the job that way. He can retire, and no one would be able to fault him for that, but he knows Miranda will move on without him, since she's far more flexible and capable of doing alot more things. But whatever he does, he'll eventually go out in a blaze instead of choosing to going silently into the night, and leave her to pick up the pieces.

And speaking of fics, chapter 1 of mine is done at 13k words, except I've never had an account on FF.net and will need to wait 2 days to post it. Meh. I guess I'll keep working on chapter 2.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern, I haven't actually read anything by Dylan Thomas, but I always had the impression archetypal hero figures aren't exactly what his work is about. What do you refer to here?

[t3HPrO]

Hey guys, does this qualify as a 'rape face'? Cause it sure looks...off.

[t3HPrO]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Slightly less serious question fellow Miranda fans - is it a bad thing that when doing Miranda's loyalty mission and playing a class with sniper rifles, I always use them on Enyala, just to make sure she goes down hard?

Not really. I love playing as a Vanguard, and when I do, I smack her with a whole lotta Area Reaves and top it off with a heavy charge(I always pick Reave as the bonus power when playing as a Vanguard). Otherwise, I'll just pump her full of automatic gunfire or pop her head with one shot. Or Singularity her. It just depends on my class (note: I edited my Coalesced to have almost all classes except Infiltrator use assault rifles).

[Nightwriter]

t3HPrO wrote...

Hey guys, does this qualify as a 'rape face'? Cause it sure looks...off.

Definitely not a rape face. And if it is a rape face, it's the best rape face I've ever seen, rapists need to take a lesson from Miranda here.

Haven't seen many weird Miranda snapshots actually. Well, there's this:



Made me laugh my ass off.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern, I haven't actually read anything by Dylan Thomas, but I always had the impression archetypal hero figures aren't exactly what his work is about. What do you refer to here?

I meant archetypal in the sense of emotional expression, the feel of a defiant voice against the inevitable, a flickering firefly that burns brightly and dies a fiery death kind of mentality. My impression is being ressurrected may have granted Shepard an extension to his natural lifespan, but he consciously squandered that away by going far beyond what is reasonable in terms of combat enhancements. This is a man who tailored himself for incredible short-term performance at the expense of long-term survival. He's pushed his body beyond all limits without regards for the possibility he'd survive past the war, and he can't imagine having anything to contribute or live for after that. After all, he's even gone through death, and that no longer poses the same fear as it used to. 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Thomas either, maybe because his poems are so "catch-phras-y" and popular media and oft-quoting without thought has the tendency to cheapen the sentiments he advocate, but in this case, I feel his work does fit somehow into my idea of Shepard, and to a lesser extent, his love poetry informs my impression of the relationship between Shepard and Miranda. 

I suppose it may come across as weird to many, but when I play ME, I'm always acutely aware I am not Shepard, and when I move him around, making decisions, I'm simply that tiny voice in his head nudging him to nuanced choices and morality. The story is ultimately his, not mine. Ironic, considering this is a RPG, but here we are.

Edit: @Nightwriter: wahahaha!

Modifié par Elyvern, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[jtav]

I have that same sense of disconnect, except mine comes with a helping of dislike. He's too brash, steamrolls over everyone in his way, and gets away with more than he should. I want to lock him in a closet somewhere and let Miranda, Kaidan, Thane, or Liara be the protagonist.



Note to self: stop playing MaleShep and stop trying to write him as a central character.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I have that same sense of disconnect, except mine comes with a helping of dislike. He's too brash, steamrolls over everyone in his way, and gets away with more than he should. I want to lock him in a closet somewhere and let Miranda, Kaidan, Thane, or Liara be the protagonist.

Note to self: stop playing MaleShep and stop trying to write him as a central character.

Heh, I like that he's brash. I draw analogies between him and Miles Vorkorsigan, a man destined for a short but brilliant life, who also died and was ressurrected. Both him and Shepard are used to getting their own way, and when they bump into an invisible wall deterring them from their wishes, they look at it and wonder where it came from. Imagine that expression of annoyance and confusion that something like this would apply to them! When portrayed in a straightforward manner, such arrogance does have that tendency to grate (the way it's done in the games), but sic people like them among powerful characters that can act as foils and equals with the ability to prove them wrong, the play-off would be a treat to read/watch.

Modifié par Elyvern, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:03 .

[jtav]

I like Miles. Miles is smart. Shepard just feels like a condescending ass, especially as Meer voices him. He grates, and I don't want him anywhere near Miranda. She's better off with Thane or Liara.

[Elyvern]

Yes, as I mentioned, I have an issue with how Shepard, whom we can argue shares some characteristics with Miles, is presented in the games. Especially how with a few inanities he mutters changes people and worlds. But I blame it on the game medium. There's too much time and effort involved to write convincing interactions, and the effect is Shepard comes off as a pseudo-messiaic figure whose "aura" makes people fall at his feet. It feels utterly contrived and unconvincing.

But my point is arrogance and brashness needn't be a turn off. Miles' obnoxiousness is adorable sometimes, especially when he's pitted against people immune to his particular type of bludgeoning charm, and realise he can't ride roughshod over people against their wishes. Have you read the series up to the point where Miles found Ekaterin? She has many characteristics that Miranda shares as well. A deep sense of reserve and a core of iron in her personality that makes her stand staunch against an overwhelming personality like Miles'. That's the kind of person Shepard needs in his life; professionally, they can likely agree on most matters, but if Miranda does give way to Shepard on personal issues, it's with indulgence born out of fondness, but she'd never let go of her autonomy or her real opinions.

Modifié par Elyvern, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:38 .

[jtav]

*remembers A Civil Campaign quite fondly* I think you've hit on what makes me dislike Shepard. He quite frankly can run roughshod over everyone. It's annoying. Even Miranda falls at his feet in due course, though not as grossly as Tali and Jack. The character type can be done well, as it was with Miles, but I find it annoying with Shepard, and Shepard only. I've hit upon some unpleasant dialogue with Jack, and it's become the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.I'm tired of having to ignore/tweak things to have a protagonist I can stand, let alone one I could pair was my favorite character.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

*remembers A Civil Campaign quite fondly* I think you've hit on what makes me dislike Shepard. He quite frankly can run roughshod over everyone. It's annoying. Even Miranda falls at his feet in due course, though not as grossly as Tali and Jack. The character type can be done well, as it was with Miles, but I find it annoying with Shepard, and Shepard only. I've hit upon some unpleasant dialogue with Jack, and it's become the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.I'm tired of having to ignore/tweak things to have a protagonist I can stand, let alone one I could pair was my favorite character.

Indeed. It's one of the reasons why I rant so much about Miranda's sudden decision to quit Cerberus if Shepard blows up the base. Because of the lack of any kind of forewarning, her decision can easily be seen as influenced by Shepard's "leadership" and "aura". In fact, I also don't like how she can be brought around to see that her self-worth isn't contingent on her being a tool for her father and TIM at Shepard's say-so, even though I can understand the inherent good-will of such an act. It takes more than choice words alone to change deeply ingrained beliefs, and repeating those same lines in the attempt to change her mind is feels like a kind of " mental conditioning" without addressing the root cause of her issues.  

Modifié par Elyvern, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm tired of having to ignore/tweak things to have a protagonist I can stand, let alone one I could pair with my favorite character.

It's getting less annoying for me. I'm playing a Shepard whose behaviour is mostly an act. He acts the way he does because he found, to his everlasting annoyance, that it works, that people are more likely to listen to impassioned stupidity than the voice of reason. He does it because he must to succeed against the Reapers, but it makes him feel more and more disconnected from other humans. At times he's cursed his empathy and his sense of duty, which call him to protect who he does no longer respect, and he's been one step away from walking away and saying "It can all go to hell. The Reaper are right. We aren't worth saving." Miranda grounds him, reminding him, again and again, that there are people who don't prefer to live in ignorance. In some way that has nothing to do with love and everything with what Miranda is, he's saving the galaxy for her.


Sometimes he forgets to put off the act where he doesn't need it, which explains certain moments in romance conversations, and the most glaring dissonance that would keep him from respecting MIranda doesn't happen in my games - I don't destroy the base. 

This works surprisingly well for me, possibly because I can easily find that sense of dissatisfaction and the resulting dose of misanthropy in myself

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 novembre 2010 - 05:23 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

I've a question to pose to the Miranda board: If Miranda could have control over a squad like Shepard could, which members of the Normandy 2.0 squad would she take and why?

[Prudii Aden]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This works surprisingly well for me, possibly because I can easily find that sense of dissatisfaction and the resulting dose of misanthropy in myself

Thanks to my job, neither of those are a problem. It's how I'm dealing with the current playthrough, although there are the occasional moments of "You really are too stupid to live. Good bye!"

[jtav]

Sorry Ieldra. My latest game has me in a frothing rage. I'm sure I'll control myself eventually, but I think I need to stay away from Shepard/Miranda for a while and give up trying to write it. I just can't do it convincingly. I'll work on Atonement or Persistence of Memory for awhile. Anyone got a preference there?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Sorry Ieldra. My latest game has me in a frothing rage. I'm sure I'll control myself eventually, but I think I need to stay away from Shepard/Miranda for a while and give up trying to write it. I just can't do it convincingly. I'll work on Atonement or Persistence of Memory for awhile. Anyone got a preference there?

Yes. Persistence of Memory is very promising. It has themes I find fascinating apart from the relationship, which I find very easy to integrate in my vision of Miranda. I guess the plan you outlined in your post abovethread has been canceled?

BTW:
If I want to hear Shepard speaking and not cringe, I go back to ME1 and the Eden Prime debriefing. When I write him, that's the voice I try to imagine in my mind.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Ieldra]

Skyline_Stanza wrote...
I've a question to pose to the Miranda board: If Miranda could have control over a squad like Shepard could, which members of the Normandy 2.0 squad would she take and why?

It depends on the mission. Miranda is a professional and would take those who fit the mission best. So: what is the mission?

[jtav]

Yes, it's been canceled. If anyone else wants to write it feel free. I'd started it because I was stuck on a scene in Persistence, but I guess I'll try again.