15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyvern]

For story purposes, why can't he have all abilities? It seems so arbitrary that an engineer precludes being a biotic, or a soldier. Especially if you aren't going to go in-depth about all of Shepard's abilities, it wouldn't come across as overpowered. My shepard for example is a biotic who's able to use all weaponry, with the occasional tech skill. Gaming concerns shouldn't restrict excessively what you intend to write in a fiction.

[Ieldra]

It's more psychological. I've unconsciously taken Cyrus Shepard's abilities from his in-game incarnation, and I have a hard time mentally adapting him back. It's as if by having him use biotics, I'd start to write about someone else. I guess things have to settle a bit in my mind. Right now they're still dancing, not fighting.

[Nightwriter]

I need validation.

I know I shall get validation here. I seek refuge in the motherland.

I have just discovered this picture.



Now. Please tell me I am not alone in thinking the picture on the right looks totally weird.

[Melra]

Nightwriter wrote...

I need validation.

I know I shall get validation here. I seek refuge in the motherland.

I have just discovered this picture.



Now. Please tell me I am not alone in thinking the picture on the right looks totally weird.

You're not alone and I still don't understand where these thoughts are coming from. She looks female to me, but the one on the right looks weird, but still reminds me of the ''Enchantment!!'' Dwarf from DA:O. 

[Ieldra]

The right one is not Miranda.

The suggestion in these picture is based on the fact that facial contours determine if a face is recognized as a man's or a woman's. Clearly, the one who made them didn't get the intricate subtleties of the differences. He just changed the jawline, creating a face with less individuality.

Also, compare both to Yvonne Strahovski's face in the OP, and it becomes totally clear that the left one is closer to her - so much for "man". From how Miranda's face looks in certain places, it's clear that some of the subtleties of Strahovski's face were lost in the transfer, and her face doesn't translate well into a game with shadows as harsh as in ME2 in the first place, resulting in an in-game face that needs specific lighting conditions to look beautiful, but the suggestion that Miranda's face is more like a man's is complete bullsh*t.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:53 .

[Axestone]

I think, it is work of envious persons . And why "Man"?... Different people have different type of face.

In my opinion, the right photo looks a little... stupid...?

[jtav]

Re: infertility. I don't think she needed it but giving her a problem that women from all walks of life have dealt with has made people more sympathetic to her because it's easier to understand than being tortured by being brilliant and beautiful because your gifts don't belong to you. What would have been even better is a story about her past. "I was pushed to meet impossible demands" vs. "I nearly died from the surgery that turned me into a biotic. I was ten and terried. My father didn't care."

[Elyvern]

I agree with Melrache. The right one looks weird...even if I don't know how Miranda looks like, and it's got nothing with looking like a man or not. Where did you get this picture comparison from? In fact, I came on ME without watching Chuck or knowing who was in it or the hell it was. And I originally thought Miranda looked awfully like Denise Richards actually. So even during my unbiased first impression, I never did think she looked like a man.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

I need validation.

I know I shall get validation here. I seek refuge in the motherland.

I have just discovered this picture.



Now. Please tell me I am not alone in thinking the picture on the right looks totally weird.

I don't get it. What am I looking at? The one on the right has a slightly shaved down jawline, but why does it say "Man" and "Woman" over the two pictures?

[aeetos21]

Well unless people are trying to insinuate Yvonne Strahovski isn't all woman - in which case I'd ask them to check their pants - ten yes the one on the left is definitely the image BW ran with. Hell look at my avatar, pretty obvious its the jawline from the left image.

[tommyt_1994]

fongiel24 wrote...



I don't get it. What am I looking at? The one on the right has a slightly shaved down jawline, but why does it say "Man" and "Woman" over the two pictures?

Some Miri hater, I'm guessing, made that. He/She thinks that Miranda looks like a man (which is baffling) and that the picture labeled 'woman' actually looks like a woman, though I think it looks awfully creepy for whatever reason.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Judging purely from lore, biotic effects should move at lightspeed. They are also all instantaneous in ME1. That's what I use as the basis. The problem is more one of targeting: biotic powers are triggered by physical movement, and that movement can be anticipated. I was wondering if this anticipation can be used to dodge. I tend to think it can be used to dodge.

ME2 gameplay just feels wrong: not only do biotic effects move ridiculously slowly, they're also homing which makes absolutely no sense physically - once you've triggered that dark energy wave, there's no way you could influence where it's going. 

This makes sense (dodging based on the physical movement of the attacker). Even if the biotic effects move at lightspeed, they still only cover a limited area. In Revelation it's mentioned that biotic effects are visible on an attacker's body even before they use their abilities so if someone knew what to look for, they might have a chance to avoid being struck. After all, even if the biotic attack moves at lightspeed, they're still directed by an organic brain which probably doesn't make decisions at lightspeed.

[Melra]

Elyvern wrote...

I agree with Melrache. The right one looks weird...even if I don't know how Miranda looks like, and it's got nothing with looking like a man or not. Where did you get this picture comparison from? In fact, I came on ME without watching Chuck or knowing who was in it or the hell it was. And I originally thought Miranda looked awfully like Denise Richards actually. So even during my unbiased first impression, I never did think she looked like a man.

I didn't know who she really was either, when I started playing, nor did I know that the character had her face made via scanning someone's face. Liked it anyway no matter what, but still the thing I liked right from the start was the voice.

Anyway, I've heard these ''MJ'' ''Male looking'' comments few times before and I still don't know what kind of pills people have been taking to come to such conclusions. 

[Ieldra]

Picture time - because that thing up there needs a counter.

Old, but still one of my favorites:


I have a special regard for this one, because it's a cut from my first Miranda shot, from my very first ME2 game, nine months ago, on Minuteman Station:


And biotic Miranda - almost iconic with the Cerberus logo in the background:


@fongiel:
Thanks for the comment, and about the info from Revelation. That was useful. Now I'm more free in my staging of a fight between Miranda and Shepard.

@Melrache:
I guess you're speaking of "hate pills". No idea about the ingredients, though

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Ieldra]

Since apparently no one reads the OP and even fewer people follow the link to the FAQ, I'm re-posting our "Why do we like Miranda" list here, just in case anyone who doesn't know it is lurking somewhere.

Why do you like Miranda?
There are many different reasons why people like Miranda. Here are some of them. Note that the reasons for liking her as a character may differ from those for being attracted to her for a romance. I've tried to put the list in a descending order of importance, but there is some disagreement about the order, except for (1), which seems to be universal consensus among her fans.
(1) She’s an independently powerful and competent woman who can deal with her problems – professional or emotional – on her own (note: that doesn’t mean she doesn’t appreciate help). She’s the only female LI character who plays in the same league as Shepard. That makes her a perfect companion for him.
(2) She’s morally ambiguous. Black and white types tend to be predictable – and thus, often less interesting than those with grey morality. Her mental flexibility also means that she adapts better to situations where conventional morality just doesn't apply.
(3) She’s emotionally detached... - enough to be fascinating and refreshing, but not so much as to be unlikeable. All too often women in fiction are represented as more or less defined by their emotions. Miranda breaks that pattern. She can be professional; she can be coldly detached or coolly unmovable. She can also be emotional, but she’s not restricted to that.
(4) ...but does warm up to those she respects and trusts. Trust and (professional) respect are interwoven in her relationship to you. Once you've gained them, she becomes more open with you, and you know that's something special.
(5) She’s a “spy with superpowers”. This combination of power and mystery is irresistible to many of her fans.
(6) She's a woman, not a girl. Her grown-up and balanced personality attracts many fans.
(7) She's unapologetically sexual - and not presented as a sl*t because of it (forget the ass shots and pay attention to her behavior if you don't believe it). That's refreshing because more conventional stories like to paint a woman who enjoys sex - to say nothing of sex in engine rooms - in a more negative light. 
(8) She's human. For those who find interspecies romance unconvincing, that’s an important aspect if you want to romance her.
(9) She’s engineered to be perfect. That makes her special in a way you cannot acquire by learning or character development. While for some, that’s a point of attraction in itself, if you’re a transhumanist you might also be thrilled by the fact that she might be – dare I say it – the genetic destiny of humanity (This entry assumes her infertility is reversible).
(10) She’s beautiful. This point is not as minor as people might want to make themselves believe. It’s not a necessary condition for liking her, but Miranda would be a different character if she were ugly. If you think she's not beautiful, look at these screenshots: pic1 ** pic2 ** pic3

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

jtav wrote...

Re: infertility. I don't think she needed it but giving her a problem that women from all walks of life have dealt with has made people more sympathetic to her because it's easier to understand than being tortured by being brilliant and beautiful because your gifts don't belong to you. What would have been even better is a story about her past. "I was pushed to meet impossible demands" vs. "I nearly died from the surgery that turned me into a biotic. I was ten and terried. My father didn't care."

Could one interchange the former dialouge for the latter? (Switch "Impossible demands" with "Ten and terrified biotic surgery.") Would that still envoke that empathy one would get from hearing her story? Would it affect her story if one of the lines, like above, was changed?  

Would you feel that your subsitute, Jtav, would work better?
 
On a Miranda related side note: I'm trying to get Miranda's character down for my fanfic, so I'm basically studying the heck out of her: skills, traits, her biotics, attitude, speech patterns, the whole shebang.

 Since Miranda's proficent enough with an omni-tool in game to overload sheilds, would she be able to hack mechs as well? Before we knew about the squadmates abilities, I'd always assumed she'd be a full-blown Sentinel, complete with tech-armor.
 
I'm curious to know your assesment of Miranda's abilities based on gameplay vs story elements. In cutscenes, we see her freely use her biotics, in her fight against Jack and for tossing Cpt. Enyala with a Throw.  

[jtav]

I mean instead of her being vague, one concrete example of what her father did would be more effective at generating sympathy and the infertility would be superfluous.



She looks really good in the second screenshot.



I don't picture Miranda as that much of a reader, but I don't see her completely eschewing leisure reading, so I wonder what she'd read. After LotSB, I can almost see her reading genre romance and refusing to admit it to anyone.



I find myself annoyed by the first part of her dossier more and more, particularly the juxtaposition of canceling the scientific journal with the subscription to a fashion magazine and the self-help books. As if all she really wants are relationships and clothes. There's nothing wrong with her wanting these things, but I dislike the juxtaposition.

[Skyline_Stanza]

jtav wrote...

I mean instead of her being vague, one concrete example of what her father did would be more effective at generating sympathy and the infertility would be superfluous.

She looks really good in the second screenshot.

Ah, now I see. That does make a lot more sense. I always thought that Miranda's biotic abilities were given to her through genetic manipulation in the womb/at birth, but I could see where having a surgery at age ten would garner sympathy. Very astute of you, Jtav.

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:39 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I mean instead of her being vague, one concrete example of what her father did would be more effective at generating sympathy and the infertility would be superfluous.

I very much agree with this.

I don't picture Miranda as that much of a reader, but I don't see her completely eschewing leisure reading, so I wonder what she'd read. After LotSB, I can almost see her reading genre romance and refusing to admit it to anyone.

Uh...I very much doubt how women are usually painted in these stories would appeal to her at all.

I find myself annoyed by the first part of her dossier more and more, particularly the juxtaposition of canceling the scientific journal with the subscription to a fashion magazine and the self-help books. As if all she really wants are relationships and clothes. There's nothing wrong with her wanting these things, but I dislike the juxtaposition.

I dislike that as well, but I consider it of the humorous part and don't take it seriously. Just a hint symbolizing that she may not spend *all* of her time on professional pursuits any more.

[Ieldra]

Skyline_Stanza wrote...

jtav wrote...

I mean instead of her being vague, one concrete example of what her father did would be more effective at generating sympathy and the infertility would be superfluous.

She looks really good in the second screenshot.

Ah, now I see. That does make a lot more sense. I always thought that Miranda's biotic abilities were given to her through genetic manipulation in the womb/at birth, but I could see where having a surgery at age ten would garner sympathy. Very astute of you, Jtav.

Does *anyone* read the Miranda Lawson FAQ?

MIranda getting biotic abilities through genetic manipulation has a problem: the first eezo exposure of human fetuses was in 2151, an its effects - creating biotic abilities - weren't discovered until 2157. Miranda was born in 2150. You'd have to assume several entries in the timeline are very wrong. We've debated that and concluded that using a surgical procedure adapted from the krogan (which is mentioned in the Codex) is more plausible.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:46 .

[jtav]

Just a thought Ieldra, since the dossier also seems to be giving her more feminine hobbies. And the portrayal of women is much better than it was in the 70s/80s. Certain very successful authors write heroines with more in common with Miranda than Tali, though you still have the more traditional types too.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MIranda getting biotic abilities through genetic manipulation has a problem: the first eezo exposure of human fetuses was in 2151, an its effects - creating biotic abilities - weren't discovered until 2157. Miranda was born in 2150. You'd have to assume several entries in the timeline are very wrong. We've debated that and concluded that using a surgical procedure adapted from the krogan (which is mentioned in the Codex) is more plausible.

I didn't realise that it was adapted from the krogans. Are there any evidence that other races have attempted such surgery? Or does it have a high mortality rate and would only be successful on Krogans because they have high regenerative powers? If that's the case, the situation of a young Miranda undergoing the surgery to graft eezo nodules into her nervous system would be extremely dangerous and tramautic, more so because the only reason she survived such an experience was because she was genetically engineered to heal fast.

Played right, that would work to garner sympathy for her better.

Modifié par Elyvern, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And the portrayal of women is much better than it was in the 70s/80s. Certain very successful authors write heroines with more in common with Miranda than Tali, though you still have the more traditional types too.

So...there are genre romances where women don't let their emotions override the last modicum of common sense? That would make them worth a look. Any recommendations?

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Or does it have a high mortality rate and would only be successful on Krogans because they have high regenerative powers? If that's the case, a young Miranda undergoing the surgery to graft eezo nodules into her nervous system would be extremely dangerous and tramautic, more so because the only reason she survived such an experience was because she was genetically engineered to heal fast.

Exactly that. The adaptation to humans may or may not be as dangerous as the one for the krogaon - after all, every species is different - but on krogans it had a high mortality rate.I don't recall the exact source, but this was mentioned somewhere in official material.

Edit:
Here is it - Codex entry "Krogan - Military": "Biotics are rare among the krogan, especially since the practice of surgically creating krogan biotics has been discontinued (due to the high mortality rate)"

Edit2:
That was actually from the wiki. The actual Codex entry is almost identical, but doesn't mention this. I'll go check it in the games, but not now...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:16 .

[jtav]

That's theory I;m working with. It has a high mortality rate among krogan. In my personal fanon/Atonement and Persistence backstory, the surgery was the moment she realized her father didn't love her and she was expendable in his pursuit of a child.