15168 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

t3HPrO wrote...

Miranda probably has the ability to decouple emotions from her competence, so quit worrying about the chickification. Case in point: my former boss. She was a total b*tch at work, but when I ran into her a few months later at a mall with her family and she's all sugar spice and everything nice. So relax, don't give yourselves panic attacks worrying about it.

All that means is that your boss isn't a two-dimensional caricature with only one set of emotions. People act differently depending on the situation you encounter them in - this is natural. At work some people are assh*les because their livelihood is on the line. When you encounter them outside of work, they're not going to act like an assh*le to you in public because social norms and conventions dictate that that's not how you treat aquaintences. In both cases, your boss' attitude towards you may not be representative of who she is at all.

Miranda's baseline is cool, rational, and somewhat emotionally detached. She may thaw a little, but that baseline shouldn't change just because she's now in a dedicated longterm relationship.

Modifié par fongiel24, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[jtav]

I certainly want the operative back alongside the LI. I want her to keep fighting the good fight and I want her to keep being a rather clear-eyed pragmatist who tells you running off to rescue the crew when not prepared is a bad idea. I don't want her to transform into a starry-eyed idealist and I don't want her to stop caring about the greater good and become nothing more than the LI. who wants marriage and kids. Marriage and kids are good things, but I want them to exist alongside her work, not replace it.



I continue to be surprised the prospect of a no-strings affair didn't come up. We know she has them, and I'd be willing to wager a chunk of players really do just want her in bed. My Renegade's like that. I'm hoping he pays for it.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I continue to be surprised the prospect of a no-strings affair didn't come up. We know she has them, and I'd be willing to wager a chunk of players really do just want her in bed. My Renegade's like that. I'm hoping he pays for it.

Really? While my Shepards are usually interested in more than just that, I don't think there's anything wrong with a no-strings affair. The only problem is the "no promises" scene - you can't interpret that as part of a no-strings affair.

BTW, has anyone here broken up/delayed the romance in the "no promises" scene? What does she say? It seems I am unable to do that.

Edit:
Has anyone got a link to a video with what she says when you side with Jack in the conflict? I don't want to play that, not even as a test.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 novembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[jtav]

I should mention he's reconciled with Liara--without breaking it off with Miranda. It's entirely possible to play him as just manipulating her. The delayed romance dialogue is quite romantic. I wish it had led to her changing her mind before the relay.

Shepard lowers his head and shifts around.

Shepard: This isn't the time to be getting involved, is it?

Miranda lifts her head to look at Shepard.

Miranda: No. I don't think it is.

Miranda stands up moves closer to Shepard.

Shepard: Maybe someday, after we save the galaxy?

Miranda and Shepard lightly grip each other's hands. Miranda smiles...

Miranda: Let's see how it goes. Until then... friends?

[Elyvern]

Hell, has anyone ever chose the "no" option at the elevator scene? I could never bring myself to do it, but I'm interested in what happens if someone does that.

I'm writing chapter 2 of my fic now in a post-omega-4 relay flashback where Miranda gets cold feet and tries to chalk the engine room scene down to spur-of-the-moment in the face of impending death. And to make it worse, my Shep has decided to betray TIM after being tasked to give Cerberus the base. and must now try to untangle her objective loyalty to him without bringing emotional involvement into the mix. Headache...

[jtav]

It's all in gutty's dialogue tree. Never turned her down there. If I'm going to, I do it ASAP.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
I'm writing chapter 2 of my fic now in a post-omega-4 relay flashback where Miranda gets cold feet and tries to chalk the engine room scene down to spur-of-the-moment in the face of impending death. And to make it worse, my Shep has decided to betray TIM after being tasked to give Cerberus the base. and must now try to untangle her objective loyalty to him without bringing emotional involvement into the mix. Headache...

One does hope you don't forget your original plot over all that....

BTW; I thought your chapter 1 implies that Shepard kept the base? I'm confused about what you mean by "being tasked to"...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 novembre 2010 - 07:04 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
I'm writing chapter 2 of my fic now in a post-omega-4 relay flashback where Miranda gets cold feet and tries to chalk the engine room scene down to spur-of-the-moment in the face of impending death. And to make it worse, my Shep has decided to betray TIM after being tasked to give Cerberus the base. and must now try to untangle her objective loyalty to him without bringing emotional involvement into the mix. Headache...

One does hope you don't forget your original plot over all that....

BTW; I thought your chapter 1 implies that Shepard kept the base? I'm confused about what you mean by "being tasked to"...

He kept the base, but after emerging from the O-4 relay, he decides not to give TIM the IFF transponder or the blueprints to make one. In doing so, he's forcing everyone on board the Normandy to either betray Cerberus with him or leave the ship he's taking custody of. It basically puts Miranda's loyalties on the front stage, and makes my Shepard look less retarded.

It's a big conflict moment that I'm trying to link to the main story. This scene has taken hold of me for some weird reason. I can't shake it off.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

It's all in gutty's dialogue tree. Never turned her down there. If I'm going to, I do it ASAP.

I just looked through it. It's...pleasantly pleasant. Now I'm curious, does that unflags the romance or not?

Edit: actually I just looked through all the rejection dialogue...wow, it's all so pleasant. That makes her reaction in the romance conflict scene doubly-jarring though. At first glance it seems like she can reconcile his retreat on the basis of work but not because of a third party...? And this one line by Shepard jumps out at me for some reason:

Shepard: This won't work, Miranda. We're too much alike. We need to stay professional.
Miranda: I'm sorry you feel that way. But I understand.
Miranda: It's simpler, this way, in any event. No complications. That's probably for the best.
Miranda: Thank you for coming by, Shepard. I'll talk to you later.

"We're too much alike"? That came out of the blindside...

Modifié par Elyvern, 07 novembre 2010 - 07:46 .

[tommyt_1994]

Elyvern wrote...

jtav wrote...

It's all in gutty's dialogue tree. Never turned her down there. If I'm going to, I do it ASAP.

I just looked through it. It's...pleasantly pleasant. Now I'm curious, does that unflags the romance or not?

I looked at it on the online dialog tree, it indicates that the romance is still intact, Shepard just tells her that its a bad time and they need to prepare. Much like the ME1 romances, if you turn them down at the romance scene, it's still counted as a romance in ME2.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
I'm writing chapter 2 of my fic now in a post-omega-4 relay flashback where Miranda gets cold feet and tries to chalk the engine room scene down to spur-of-the-moment in the face of impending death. And to make it worse, my Shep has decided to betray TIM after being tasked to give Cerberus the base. and must now try to untangle her objective loyalty to him without bringing emotional involvement into the mix. Headache...

One does hope you don't forget your original plot over all that....

BTW; I thought your chapter 1 implies that Shepard kept the base? I'm confused about what you mean by "being tasked to"...

He kept the base, but after emerging from the O-4 relay, he decides not to give TIM the IFF transponder or the blueprints to make one. In doing so, he's forcing everyone on board the Normandy to either betray Cerberus with him or leave the ship he's taking custody of. It basically puts Miranda's loyalties on the front stage, and makes my Shepard look less retarded.

It's a big conflict moment that I'm trying to link to the main story. This scene has taken hold of me for some weird reason. I can't shake it off.

I like this, it sounds like the smart thing to do. It's something I always wanted to be able to do, keep the base but keep it out of TIM's hands. Too bad the ME2 cutscenes make it impossible to implement that option at the start of ME3.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
"We're too much alike"? That came out of the blindside...

Er...that's retarded. How can *any* Shepard we can play in ME2 say he and Miranda are alike. I wish they were more alike, really, but...they just aren't.

[jtav]

I think it does unflag it. Liara treats you as if the romance never was. What does it say about me that my favorite bit in the entire involves turning her down?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I think it does unflag it. Liara treats you as if the romance never was. What does it say about me that my favorite bit in the entire involves turning her down?

That you don't like MShep as portrayed by ME2 being with Miranda? That's hardly news around here.

ME1 MShep is a bit less defined in personality. I preferred that. I wish ME2 hadn't gone so over-the-top with the not-so-smart but oh-so-forceful action hero template. At times it seems MShep is hardly worth her affection and respect.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[jtav]

I meant that I found the rejection dialogue that I posted upthread very romantic, and I wish that it had led to something and that it wasn't so easy to play him as not caring about her beyond as a trophy. It's not quite as bad as Jack's romance, but I still feel as if she could do much better. As you said, Shepard comes off as not too bright and condescending. She could do so much better. Even if you restrict it to human males, there's Kaidan.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ME1 MShep is a bit less defined in personality. I preferred that. I wish ME2 hadn't gone so over-the-top with the not-so-smart but oh-so-forceful action hero template. At times it seems MShep is hardly worth her affection and respect.

This actually bothers me immensely. It's why I'm taking so much pains to re-write and retcon Shepard's decisions in my fic. I'm writing him as arrogant, but definitely not a fool. He has the tendency is make assumptions about people but ironically, it's a mark of leadership in that he has fall back on those assumptions to be able to make decisive choices on the spot. They don't always work out, but when they do, those moments shine. And when he oversteps his boundaries, Miranda is there to rein him back, rap him on the knuckles and remind him of his place. Of all the people in his life, she's the one who sees the most clearest the man that he is, without all the glitter of fame or awe that accompanies his status.

[jtav]

To my mind, if I have to rework Shepard's character to a significant degree to create something I enjoy, that I'm better off just using another character that's closer to what I want. For a long time, my Shepard had more in common with Kaidan than the end-game personality. I might as well just skip all that and write her with Kaidan. Or I can write her with Thane and give her someone who can keep up with her intellectually and force her fears of being abandoned into sharper focus.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
To my mind, if I have to rework Shepard's character to a significant degree to create something I enjoy, that I'm better off just using another character that's closer to what I want. For a long time, my Shepard had more in common with Kaidan than the end-game personality.

Doesn't work for me to use another character, since Shepard *is* my protagonist. I just make the effort to mentally re-work him. Works surprisingly well if you just ignore many Paragon/Renegade conversation choices and use mostly middle options unless you really need something else. Only at the Collector base and in the dialogue with TIM things get out of hand.

I did think of writing a Miranda/Kaidan fic, but it's too much work to make it convincing - they're very compatible in personality, but not at all in their loyalties. I'm not interested in dealing with the differences in outlook between the Alliance and Cerberus in a fanfic.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[jtav]

We've established I'm a bit strange. Alliance versus Cerberus is something I like to see explored. And I'm much happier playing FemShep and romancing Kaidan/Thane/Liara. I don't think you'd really want to see my Shepard/Miranda attempts. I don't think I write it particularly convincingly compared to Miranda/Liara and Miranda/Thane because I really don't like how the romance is written.

[ADLegend21]

we interupt this awesome debate to bring you this random screenshot.

[enayasoul]

Elyvern wrote...

Hell, has anyone ever chose the "no" option at the elevator scene? I could never bring myself to do it, but I'm interested in what happens if someone does that.
I'm writing chapter 2 of my fic now in a post-omega-4 relay flashback where Miranda gets cold feet and tries to chalk the engine room scene down to spur-of-the-moment in the face of impending death. And to make it worse, my Shep has decided to betray TIM after being tasked to give Cerberus the base. and must now try to untangle her objective loyalty to him without bringing emotional involvement into the mix. Headache...

I couldn't bring myself to say no at the elevator scene.  But I might reload a save file on another character and check.

I did do the just be friends part. (where they hold each others hands)  I hit reload. 

I sided with Jack to see the other option and Miranda was pissed.  

[Ieldra]

enayasoul wrote...
I sided with Jack to see the other option and Miranda was pissed.  

Here's a video with all outcomes of the Miranda/Jack conflict. Phew....Now I don't have to play siding with Jack myself.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 novembre 2010 - 06:07 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

enayasoul wrote...
I sided with Jack to see the other option and Miranda was pissed.  

Here's a video with all outcomes of the Miranda/Jack conflict. Phew....Now I don't have to play siding with Jack myself.

Nice find. I must agree with one of the posters on the video. It's absolutely chilling that silence before Miranda says "Not even remotely". *shudder*

Edit: Hmm...Miranda does say the word "okay". Right, scratch that from my list of "don'ts" when writing her dialogue.

Modifié par Elyvern, 08 novembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[Collider]

My canon sides with Miranda. Because my Shepard doesn't want to enable Jack's violence.

Plus Miranda was mostly just defending herself as far as I know.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

enayasoul wrote...
I sided with Jack to see the other option and Miranda was pissed.  

Here's a video with all outcomes of the Miranda/Jack conflict. Phew....Now I don't have to play siding with Jack myself.

Nice find. I must agree with one of the posters on the video. It's absolutely chilling that silence before Miranda says "Not even remotely". *shudder*

Yes - which makes it all the more jarring how friendy she becomes when you regain her loyalty. I'd have expected a much more grudging acceptance.
I think Miranda is a woman who holds a grudge. She'll keep it sidelined for the sake of the mission, but she won't forget for a long time.

@Collider:
That's what I also think. If you side with Jack, you endorse her methods. I've used all three other options in my games, but not this one.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 novembre 2010 - 09:11 .