15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Here's something that Elyvern brought up in the CDG forum (just in case anyone reads this who's not also there). I don't recall it having been discussed here:



How you you think Miranda feels about being placed under Shepard`s authority? I think there's some resentment, and it may explain her cold behaviour at the start of the game.

[Elyvern]

That forum is beginning to become very very bad for the activity of this thread, I swear.

I feel like cutting and pasting the discussions over there in here because I feel like I'm abandoning my homebase.

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 novembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[jtav]

I'm enjoying the discussion, though you are giving me more and more reasons to really hate the romance. I can see some resentment as well, especially since canon Shepard is not particularly intelligent.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I'm enjoying the discussion, though you are giving me more and more reasons to really hate the romance. I can see some resentment as well, especially since canon Shepard is not particularly intelligent.

Oh dear....what have I done?

What are you talking about specifically?

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
That forum is beginning to become very very bad for the activity of this thread, I swear.

I feel like cutting and pasting the discussions over there in here because I feel like I'm abandoning my homebase.

Exactly. If anything comes up that hasn't been already talked to death here, I will do exactly that.

jtav, I think you need this picture:


And all this doesn't change that Miranda is the best romance option for Shepard in both ME games. We just need to invent some in-between dialogue we don't actually see to make it more plausible. Also, I do wonder if it will be still be possible to have a romance with Miranda in ME3 if you choose to delay it in the last conversation. That would be a way out of of these difficulties if it really bothers you so much. I'm not that bothered. As far as I'm concerned, the ME2 dialogues only show parts of the romance. The medium has its limits. A game is not a book, and it's unrealistic to expect a level of detail I would expect in a book. So it's up to us to imagine the rest of it so that it works. I see it as a part of roleplaying.

I might mention that in my tabletop roleplaying games, players often have the freedom to shape parts of the world that are normally the domain of the GM for the sake of a better story. I'll do likewise with ME. I want the romance to work, and if there is some difficulty, I'll find a way around it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:03 .

[DynamiteDK92]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's something that Elyvern brought up in the CDG forum (just in case anyone reads this who's not also there). I don't recall it having been discussed here:

How you you think Miranda feels about being placed under Shepard`s authority? I think there's some resentment, and it may explain her cold behaviour at the start of the game.

What - and where - is the CDG forum?

I tried googling it, and the only result that seemed even remotely related was a Counter Strike clan called "Clan of the Dead Goat"

Modifié par DynamiteDK92, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Rathias0114]

This group is still alive and kicking?



Guess the Miranda love is quite strong, eh?

[jtav]

Yes, though I appear to have stuck my foot in my mouth again.



*has a sudden urge for Miranda/Jacob fic* And that probably explains more than it should.

[Ieldra]

Rathias0114 wrote...
This group is still alive and kicking?

Guess the Miranda love is quite strong, eh?

Thanks for visiting, Rathias. Long time no see

Yes, there are still some regulars holding the line out here, tough some have emigrated to the Miranda group and others are also participating in the Character Discussion Group and its new external forum. Having all character-related discussion in one thread doesn't really work, after all. But this is is still the home base, so to speak.  

[Rathias0114]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Rathias0114 wrote...
This group is still alive and kicking?

Guess the Miranda love is quite strong, eh?

Thanks for visiting, Rathias. Long time no see

Yes, there are still some regulars holding the line out here, tough some have emigrated to the Miranda group and others are also participating in the Character Discussion Group and its new external forum. Having all character-related discussion in one thread doesn't really work, after all. But this is is still the home base, so to speak.  

Ah, good to go then. It has been quite sometime since I dropped in here - I think the last time I posted was the day or two before I left for Boot Camp. The Nacho Overlord is now a Marine - and has been very busy with training; so my absence hopefully has been explained.

[enayasoul]

DynamiteDK92 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's something that Elyvern brought up in the CDG forum (just in case anyone reads this who's not also there). I don't recall it having been discussed here:

How you you think Miranda feels about being placed under Shepard`s authority? I think there's some resentment, and it may explain her cold behaviour at the start of the game.

What - and where - is the CDG forum?

I tried googling it, and the only result that seemed even remotely related was a Counter Strike clan called "Clan of the Dead Goat"

Yeah where is this CDG forum?  Is it on the bioware network forum somewheres? Got a link?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Yes, though I appear to have stuck my foot in my mouth again.

*has a sudden urge for Miranda/Jacob fic* And that probably explains more than it should.

That would be the first of your fanfics I won't read. Sorry. But Jacob is just...too much. Everyone else you paired her with so far I can somehow envision as being worthy of her. But Jacob "The Prize" Taylor? Just for the record, I *am* looking forward to the next chapter of Persistence of Memory.

[Prudii Aden]

Long time no see Rathias. How's military life?

For the Yvonne fans around (I know there are some) - there's a new shoot of her here

(Psst, Rathias, any news on the next chapter of Death in Circles? )

[jtav]

I said I wanted to read it, not write it. Something doomed and dysfunctional. The 'ship hits one of my major buttons (ex-lovers who still have feelings for each other) but are personally unsuited. I've thought about doing an AU where she and either Kaidan or Shep have history because I like stories like that, but nothing's ever come of it.



Chapter three is done, actually. I'm trying to get in touch with fongiel so I can get it to him.

[snfonseka]

Elyvern wrote...

Nice excerpt, jtav. And snfonseka - that's 1 of my fav screenshots.

Yea, thats one of my favorite facial expressions of Miranda too.

[jtav]

I;m trying to create a FemShep who'd get along exceptionally well with Miranda, having the same sort of pragmatism without callousness, and trying to resist my temptation to metagame and pretend ME is a remotely realistic universe. I'm a little stuck on the Rachni Queen decision and whether to let Fist live. So, I ask you: what would Miranda do?



If I play my cards right, these two are going to be Heterosexual Life Partners. The lack of a formal friendship path grates. I don't want to romance her, but this Shepard really feels she's found a kindred spirit.

[Pwnisher]

Oh Miranda, when will you get new dialog lines?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I;m trying to create a FemShep who'd get along exceptionally well with Miranda, having the same sort of pragmatism without callousness, and trying to resist my temptation to metagame and pretend ME is a remotely realistic universe. I'm a little stuck on the Rachni Queen decision and whether to let Fist live. So, I ask you: what would Miranda do?

Fist is easy to justify either way. He's a small-time crook who's worked for Saren and the Shadow Broker, and the Citadel is probably better off without him. As a rule, she wouldn't let him live. On the other hand, you can justify letting him live so that you have someone to blackmail into doing things you want done later on. 

The Rachni queen is harder. The default pragmatic option is "kill her, just in case", but I see a possibility that Miranda would look for an excuse to let her live. From one viewpoint, she's only one individual, but her species is unique, and I don't think Miranda would be immune to the feeling that something would be irretrievably lost from the universe if she killed her. She's also not speciesist, so she'd not be particularly inclined to judge a species as a whole.
All my Shepards, even the Renegades, have always let her live, mainly for the reason that Shepard comes across as callous in the scene when she kills her. There is no sense of a regrettable necessity, no sense of being troubled by what she has to do, and I won't have my Shepards callous. It's a gamble, but even pragmatists should be allowed one occasionally.

If I play my cards right, these two are going to be Heterosexual Life Partners. The lack of a formal friendship path grates. I don't want to romance her, but this Shepard really feels she's found a kindred spirit.

I really like that. The femShep I'm playing right now might develop in the same direction (currently I'm in ME1 with her, having played all side-quests but none of the plot missions except getting Liara). And I want a friendship path in ME3!!! Hear me, Bioware? Why wouldn't someone find a kindred spirit in Miranda without being romantically interested

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 novembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[lydlyd]

Hi all! First time posting in the Miranda thread, and I hope it's ok to pose this question here.  I'm currently creating my own version of Miranda (hubby's request) so I'd like to know who should I base my Miri model: Yvonne Strahovsky herself or in-game Miranda? Although Miri's based on Yvonne you have to admit they have their differences.  I tried using Yvonne as reference (I ADORE her in Chuck), but so far even if my model looks a bit like her, she looks nothing like Miranda. :-\\  Who do you guys think I should use as reference?

Here's what I've made so far (obviously still a WIP):

[Ieldra]

Wow, lydlyd, that's so awesomely beautiful I can't express it in words! **saves this picture on the HDD very fast just in case it gets lost**

I think it's very much OK to make a model that's more based on Strahovski than on in-game Miranda, because the game doesn't show the attractiveness Miranda is supposed to have very convincingly. Particularly, in-game Miranda's jawline tends to be off.

I'd do it like this: start with something based on Strahovski, make it as beautiful as you can, and than try to change features a bit so that you approach in-game Miranda. At any point, if you think a change makes her less beautiful, reverse it.

Since your model is a WIP, I won't make any comments on its details yet. Only this: the end result should be noticeably paler.

And BTW, welcome in the Miranda thread. It's rare to see someone new nine months after ME2 came out.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 novembre 2010 - 11:10 .

[Elyvern]

I've been thinking about the infertility issue (again), and trying to figure it out from a perspective of a canon writer who has to work with/around it. I have this sinking feeling that it's probably material for a side DLC or even post-ME3 content (comics, etc) Many of us are naturally hoping that it would be done away by the end of ME3, before the credits roll. So I got around to trying to figure how that could be done. And I couldn't think of how it could be respectfully dealt with and solved in terms of proper weight and consequences without danger of sidetracking the storyline or trivialising it to the extent that we have to wonder "why bother introducing it at all?" Then I finally hit on an idea, which made me throw up in my mouth.

Now before I post my idea, I want to ask everyone to give this some thought and think of how it could be resolved with the proper weight it should be given, taking into considerations all the factors I mentioned above.

[Ieldra]

Urgh....I think I can see where you're going, Elyvern. Let's hope I'm wrong and your idea is better than the one that popped up in my head as I read your post.

The problem is, we don't want ME3 to turn into a soap opera dominated by everyone's personal problems. I think the Bioware writers agree in that - ME3 should be the epic conclusion of the Reaper wars, first and foremost. Add that it is really a side-issue, not even relevant for many players. It may not even be an issue for Miranda herself and quite obviously, not at all an issue that needs to be dealt with in the middle of a war. That means, extensive dialogue about this issue, in fact, anything that deals heavily with it at all, is unlikely to occur. Unless....well, that's what we're speculating about, are we not?

Which brings me to this: introducing something that would justify dealing heavily with this issue would likely be distasteful. I'll leave you to post your idea before I say anythong more.

So, in the end, I *really* wouldn't mind seeing it trivialized, as a minor part of some pre-endgame dialogue or such. It's been introduced as a bomb hidden among a bunch of trivial information anyway. Just say she was misdiagnosed or that the SB got the info about another "Miranda Lawson" and that's it. Yeah, very cheap, but preferable to all alternatives I can think of at this time. The next best solution would be to make the removal of this problem part of the epilogue. Might be acceptable if done right, but I find that "done right" hard to envision.

Edit:
Here's a solution I would like: Have after-the-end dialogues like in DAO. There, you actually *could* have some more or less extensive dialogue with your LI about personal problems and plans for the future without it seeming out of place, and what you decide there would determine the epilogue.

Edit2:
Here's a "trivializing" option I can see as funny, realistic and poking fun at the players for worrying too much: In the after-the-end dialogue, bring up the issue with Miranda. Her answer would be along the lines of:
"That doctor didn't know about Lazarus. Do you really think I could bring you back to life and not be able to have a problem like this removed?"

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 novembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[jtav]

I think what I would do is create a side mission dealing with her father, with the ending being the rediscovery of the tech that created her. She initially wants to destroy it, but you can convince her her otherwise. She takes a deep breath. "You're right. And maybe some day..."

Edit: Ieldra's second idea is pretty good. I like it.

Modifié par jtav, 15 novembre 2010 - 03:08 .

[Elyvern]

@Ieldra - I doubt my idea is remotely better than what you have in mind because as I said--I almost threw up at the idea. It would be soooooo corny and cliche. And if I see signs of it building up in the game, I'll be groaning all the way as I play ME3. But it was, I felt, the only way I can think of so far that wouldn't involve lengthy dialogue and introspection which I agree rightly, would sidetrack the story of ME3, and it wouldn't involve Miranda voluntarily thinking about it either, which would be OOC of her during a war. And corny as it is, it adds more stake to the end fight, and it's definitely not beneath Bioware to introduce something like this at all (see DAO's Dark Ritual).

Ergh, Argh, I think I would love the notion of more after-the-end dialogues as you mention, especially if the game design allows us to play DLCs addressing what happens after. That would be, as I mentioned in my first post, another reasonable way of dealing with the issue. Personally, I don't like trivialising it in terms of a misdiagnosis or just miraculously cured, the writer in me protests strongly at such an approach.

Anyone else with any other thoughts about this?

Edit: CDG forum is acting up badly for me. I'll probably hang around here mostly today.

Modifié par Elyvern, 15 novembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I think what I would do is create a side mission dealing with her father, with the ending being the rediscovery of the tech that created her. She initially wants to destroy it, but you can convince her her otherwise. She takes a deep breath. "You're right. And maybe some day..."

Edit: Ieldra's second idea is pretty good. I like it.

I'd think that an episode addressing issues with her father would be a great way to bring in the topic of her infertility, but I cannot see this in the main game of ME3, because it would detract so much from reaper storyline. And it cannot be just a mission either, I don't think anything about that aspect of her background can be solved with a shoot up and some concluding retrospection. It has to be DLC size, but then again, DLC means optional material which needs to be purchased, and I'm not sure Miranda is THAT popular a character to warrant a DLC made exclusively for her.

Keep going....need more thoughts on this...