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[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
@LesEnfantsTerribles:
I meant romantic not in the sense of having to do with love, but of having an emotional attitude to aspects of the world, like in romanticism. For instance, where would her sense of what is beautiful be most likely to evoke strong emotions in her?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Miranda not express admiration for the salarian STG, and how Mordin was able to utilise his considerable intellect whilst a member of the organisation? Considering this, I believe that Miranda may possess an idealised view of how one is able to exert influence upon the galaxy via a group that allows it's members to use their greatest abilities for the benefit of others, and perhaps simultaneously improving on their weaknesses.

This may also tie-in to her genetic tailoring - she feels compelled to utilise the abilities that have been granted to her, and that to waste them may be irresponsible.

That's quite correct I think. I always thought she feels an obligation to use her gifts for the benefit of humanity (if not necessarily human individuals), though I never thought to extend it like you did and put it into the context of romanticism. It does sound very plausible.

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

tommyt_1994 wrote...
I hope he gets his as* beat and dropped by both of them.

This. Both Liara and Miranda need to put him in his place, dump him, and then hook up together.

You might be interested in jtav's fanfic Persistence of Memory, if you don't already know it. Featuring Miranda/Liara, and hits Miranda's character perfectly.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 novembre 2010 - 04:44 .

[t3HPrO]

And when Miranda and Liara hook up together, they send him holos of all their sexytimes. Serves that two-timing bas**rd right.

[jtav]

That would never happen, though it would amuse me. I'd settle for them both dumping him. I could get shipping mileage out if that for weeks. I'm kind of surprised and pleased about how much people like Persistence. Next chapter will be delayed because I have a deadline, but I'll try to get that story done quickly before Ieldra kills me.

[t3HPrO]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I'd be keen to avoid any kind of "catfight" over Shepard though, especially from characters such as Liara and Miranda. Not only is it horribly sexist and only functions to stroke fragile egos, but it also undermines and demeans the characters that are fighting. Especially when said characters are Liara and Miranda, whom have proven themselves to be wise and mature.

I hope that Miranda's presentation during the inevitable romance confrontations in ME3 is true to her character, and that she is treated with respect. If an amused Shepard looks on as two women are fighting, I will eat my hat.

A catfight looks inevitable, unfortunately. If a catfight happens and Shepard just sits in a corner and smirks, I will be laughing before I take an MP7 and shoot him/her in the head for being a douche.

[ADLegend21]

IMO all relationship arguements should be designed so that if you don't have enough paragon, renegade, then the two LI's start fighting, and then you have the various charm and intimidate. (I'd also like that old threesome suggestion option from the ME1 romance confrontations, even if it is a joke and gets shot down by the LI's) Even thogh Miranda is one of the most intelligent women in mass effect, she'd have a more emotional reaction to a love confrontation, to me at least. something along the lines of:

"I brought Shepard back while you jsut snivled like a child I brought [insert gender pronoun] back from the dead, and you pushed [insert gender pronoun] away for workign with cerberus but now that that's over you come crawling back, well I was always by Shepard's side so you don't even deserve to be with Shepard."

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I'd be keen to avoid any kind of "catfight" over Shepard though, especially from characters such as Liara and Miranda. Not only is it horribly sexist and only functions to stroke fragile egos, but it also undermines and demeans the characters that are fighting. Especially when said characters are Liara and Miranda, whom have proven themselves to be wise and mature.

I hope that Miranda's presentation during the inevitable romance confrontations in ME3 is true to her character, and that she is treated with respect. If an amused Shepard looks on as two women are fighting, I will eat my hat.

What can I say....romance confrontations are not unavoidable. Just replay your Shepards through ME1 (shouldn't take longer than 20 hours on Casual even if you do everything) and make sure you're romancing no one (alive).

I won't let Miranda's character (or anyone's) be derailed by Bioware's "There must a romance conflict" approach. I'd rather kill off my only Shepard with two LIs which I keep just for the chance that it's done well. 

[Elyvern]

I'm actually tempted to do a romance between Ashley and Miranda just to see how their conflict will play out in ME3. Fire and ice and all that. There's so much to milk in terms of drama there. I also wonder if I choose not to resolve the conflict between Liara and Miranda in LotSB, will it crop up again in ME3?

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
I'm actually tempted to do a romance between Ashley and Miranda just to see how their conflict will play out in ME3. Fire and ice and all that. There's so much to milk in terms of drama there. I also wonder if I choose not to resolve the conflict between Liara and Miranda in LotSB, will it crop up again in ME3?

I have one such game - with Ashley LI in ME1 and Miranda in ME2. If they'll handle it well, I'll be glad to have it, but if not, I'll have to replay that Shepard from Virmire in ME1 all the way through ME2. That would be painful, given that's the one where I made all the Paragon decisions I don't believe in.

Here's one of my old Miranda screenshots again. I like its mood:

[jtav]

I have one conflict playthrough. Kaidan and Thane. Not a choice I'm looking forward to making.



I'm almost ready to strangle Miranda, or at least the version I'm writing. She's getting dangerously close to self-pity re: Liara. I wish knew how to make her lose some of that caution so I could actually progress the relationship.

[BossumBuddy]

jtav, you sound like you are writing a wonderful fanfic, I would love to be able to read it. I have just recently finished my ME2 playthrough, and I was fascinated by Miranda's character, it seems you could really peal away a few layers from her and fine a real person.

[BossumBuddy]

I think you have a very good point LesEnfants, they never can keep a woman in a strong role, the fear she comes across to ****y, I hope they don't soften her up in Me3, that would be a shame.

[jtav]

The idea terrifies me. Everybody else is worried about cameos. I'm worried that Miranda will turn into yet another Shepard satellite.

[Prudii Aden]

I really hope that she doesn't get Chickified. If that happens, Her being a little bit more emotionally open? That could work, however she's a rational woman whose head normally overrules her heart. If that goes, then it's not the Miranda we know and love.

[Elyvern]

I think I can safely say that's the biggest fear most of us on this thread has.

[BossumBuddy]

Yes, we had similar fears when they started messing around with Liara's character, although we will always love her, they removed some qualities that made her so endearing.

[BossumBuddy]

^This....perhaps you should do all the writing, I would definitely buy that game!

[Elyvern]

The reason why it's a legitimate concern for us is (again) the issue of her betrayal of Cerberus at the collector base if you destroy it. I'm sure you've been following up on the discussion of that on the Miranda forum in the CDG forums, Les. All the way through ME2, there's already a marked softening of her character, most prominently if you go through her LM and encourage her to speak with her sister. IF you romance her, the change becomes more drastic as Kasumi and Liara will comment on how she's so different. Her (personally to me) OOC moment if you destroy the collector base is literally the cliffhanger for her character progression. It's the last moment in ME2 where we actually interact with her character (I discount all the squadmate responses post-CB because it's so OOC that everyone applauds destroying the base and disapproves keeping it).

And it really leaves a big question as to how much credence does Bioware give to the line where she says "using anything from this base feels like a betrayal" and then does a 180 and quit the organisation she has such close ties to. The foundation for further character development in ME3 must neccessarily either hinge on that, or retcon that.

If it hinges on that, then it's literally a big jump ahead along the chickification scale, and you can't soften up her character much more before she'll lose her pragmatic streak and end up getting paragonise/emotionalise to the extent that she becomes a totally different character. If her starting personality in ME3 retcons her emotionally-charged response in the CB, there is more room for error and more room for developing and maturing her character. The whole change process can be paced out longer, although choosing where to stop would also be neccessary in preventing her from becoming chickified.

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Anyway, I'd like to ask a question that interests me to a certain extent. Are you people fearful at all regarding Miranda's possible character development, and the path that the writers will take her down in ME3? Do you worry that they will begin to write her as being emotionally dependant on Shepard, and that she will lose the independence and strong will that makes her so appealing?

Yes. Most definitely. If you look at the wishlist in the OP, it's the No. 1 wish that Miranda keeps her independence and competence, and most of her pragmatism. I actively despise the way they made her resign at the Collector Base - overemotionalized and devoid of any pragmatism - and even were keeping the base not my preferred decision, I would probably make it just to lower the chance of a chickified Miranda in ME3.
 

[Ieldra]

BossumBuddy wrote...
jtav, you sound like you are writing a wonderful fanfic, I would love to be able to read it. I have just recently finished my ME2 playthrough, and I was fascinated by Miranda's character, it seems you could really peal away a few layers from her and fine a real person.

Look into the OP. jtav's fanfic "Persistence of Memory" is linked there. I think it's safe to say that she's one of the few who can write Miranda perfectly.

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
If she does usurp TIM's position as head of Cerberus, however, then I think there's little to no chance of this happening. Miranda becoming the Illusive Woman, and vowing to reform the organisation is almost my perfect end to her character arc.

:)
You're not the only one. That idea has come up here again and again, and many of us here support it. Humanity needs its STG-equivalent - pragmatic, but not as ruthless as Cerberus was. Miranda would be the perfect woman to lead it.