15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm almost ready to strangle Miranda, or at least the version I'm writing. She's getting dangerously close to self-pity re: Liara. I wish knew how to make her lose some of that caution so I could actually progress the relationship.

At some point, the end of a dream is less painful than a continuous emotional nightmare. She should be able to convince herself of that. Another option is using an out-of-control mind-meld, but I'm sure you've thought of that. 

[jtav]

Ieldra, you do realize you're making me anxious about the next chapter living up to expectations? Especially since I'm giving Miranda and Liara a relationship upgrade so I can get on with the darn plot. And borrowing a bit from the kiss scene.



I want my pragmatic, slightly cold Miranda back. And I want her to continue having power and agency independent of Shepard.

[Prudii Aden]

Couple of things I found whilst flicking through deviant art:
First - a wallpaper, done by pineappletree.
450x348http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/277/e/7/me_wallpaper___miranda_by_pineappletree-d2zle24.jpg[/img]

Secondly, a picture of her in reasonable looking armour, by Spi-ritual-ity
450x633http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/181/0/f/Miranda_Battle__Mass_Effect_3__by_Spi_ritual_ity.jpg[/img]

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The idea terrifies me. Everybody else is worried about cameos. I'm worried that Miranda will turn into yet another Shepard satellite.

If we have an extensive sequence of meaningful interactions with Miranda, I could live with not having her on the team. The only problem I see is that not having her on the team will reduce the chance we'll get as much meaningful interaction as is necessary to develop her character arc and any relationship with her.

We have invested a lot in Miranda emotionally - which I'm sure Bioware appreciates. So I do remain somewhat optimistic, though the fear of Miranda being derailed into yet another Shepard satellite will persist until we know more. Ugh...more than a year until ME3 comes out. A hint to the size of the grudge I will hold against Bioware should Miranda get chickified.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Ieldra, you do realize you're making me anxious about the next chapter living up to expectations? Especially since I'm giving Miranda and Liara a relationship upgrade so I can get on with the darn plot. And borrowing a bit from the kiss scene.

Don't be anxious, jtav. You've never disappointed so far! I only wanted to help and hint at possibilities to make a convincing relationship upgrade. I'm sure you have your own ideas and I'm confident they'll work.

I want my pragmatic, slightly cold Miranda back. And I want her to continue having power and agency independent of Shepard.

x10000000

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

*snip*

I hear ya. However, do you not feel that the possibility exists that Miranda's perception of the galaxy, and it's inhabitants may alter to a certain extent, whilst still maintaining the character traits that we know and love? Whilst she does indeed advise Shepard to destroy the base, and expresses reservations about TIM's plans for it's technology, is it not possible that this could be a viable development of her character that coincides with the preservation of her pragmatism, and certain degree of ruthlessness?

Whilst a certain amount of "softening up" may occur in some areas of her character, it does not have to be extensive enough to completely negate the elements that her character has been built on.

It's certainly possible. The problem is twofold: one is that she does recommend destroying the base in the first place, which I think is already OOC but maybe it could be written as meaningful character development. I wouldn't like it, but I'm open to it in principle. *How* she recommends that, however, that's plainly unacceptable. That's not Miranda, that's someone who's completely lost her ability to think straight, and that in the most important decision in the game. BTW, Paragon Shepard isn't better. "This is an abomination" - yeah, as if that were ever of any moral or strategic significance. I don't know what's gotten into the writers at the end of the suicide mission. It's as if they've all gotten mad and completely forgot they're writing in an SF universe, not a fantasy universe. .

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Your image was skewed. I've removed the size tags. Much better this way.I love it, btw....

BTW: I wonder if there is a wallpaper-sized version. I'd love that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Elyvern]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

*snip*

I hear ya. However, do you not feel that the possibility exists that Miranda's perception of the galaxy, and it's inhabitants may alter to a certain extent, whilst still maintaining the character traits that we know and love? Whilst she does indeed advise Shepard to destroy the base, and expresses reservations about TIM's plans for it's technology, is it not possible that this could be a viable development of her character that coincides with the preservation of her pragmatism, and certain degree of ruthlessness?

Whilst a certain amount of "softening up" may occur in some areas of her character, it does not have to be extensive enough to completely negate the elements that her character has been built on.

I...damn, this is hard...I have actually explored that possibility in my fic Degrees of Inheritance in which Miranda's personality, her perception of the universe and aliens visibly changes because of her experiences during the Reaper war. I'm actually penning the 2nd chapter now while posting on this thread, and the more I write, the more I fear doing the exact same thing to her that I'm afraid Bioware would do in ME3. It would be heartbreaking because I intend my fic as a sort of safe harbour partially and a test of how I could begin to be reconciled to her inevitable change in personality in ME3. Fortunately, I have Ieldra as my beta-reader who constantly reminds me if I veer off unintentionally.

As for your second question, we could even begin to seperate the softening of her personality due to interactions with Shepard from her support of destroying the base. Being able to open up emotionally in a relationship and becoming generally more friendly and affable while maintaing her pragmatic streak and a control of her emotions that would prevent her from sacrificing a key strategic resource aren't mutually exclusive. If the various aspects of her character manage to achieve a balance of sort in that way, I have absolutely no problems here.

However, the problem with the CB decision is two-fold. One being while we see her warming up as a person, we get absolutely no hints at all as to her eroding sense of loyalty to TIM or Cerberus. They are seperate things, and the lack of evidence to justify her betrayal is just so glaring that her resignation can be seen as nothing but out of the blue. The other problem is her saying "it feels like a betrayal" absolutely precludes the possibility that she destroys the base out of a sense of pragmatism. It's the exact opposite. A truly pragmatic person would recognise and lament the needless and cruel loss of lives (you can equate that to her increased empathy) but would still in the overall scheme of things realise the base represents something too important to let emotions and lament cloud its usefulness against the Reapers.

Modifié par Elyvern, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:08 .

[jtav]

That was in response to your post to BosomBuddies. I'm not used to the praise I've been getting. I'm a slow typist.



What I want is for Miranda to continue to be the sort of person who reminds counsels you not to save the crew if it would harm the overall mission. I want her to continue being able to save herself and doing what she has to to remove threats. I don't want her ending to be a white picket fence and baking cookies.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
That was in response to your post to BosomBuddies. I'm not used to the praise I've been getting. I'm a slow typist.

I did mean it. But I think no one here *expects* perfection in fanfic, so don't worry.

@Elyvern:
I promise to pay special attention to that problem <eg>

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, you do realize you're making me anxious about the next chapter living up to expectations? Especially since I'm giving Miranda and Liara a relationship upgrade so I can get on with the darn plot. And borrowing a bit from the kiss scene.

I want my pragmatic, slightly cold Miranda back. And I want her to continue having power and agency independent of Shepard.

You probably write the most canonically-accurate Miranda pre-ME2 that I've ever seen. I love her streak of ruthlessness and utmost pragmatism, and I think it's something I can't achieve in my writing. So I really don't see a problem of your Miranda exhibiting too much self-pity.

Modifié par Elyvern, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[BossumBuddy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BossumBuddy wrote...
jtav, you sound like you are writing a wonderful fanfic, I would love to be able to read it. I have just recently finished my ME2 playthrough, and I was fascinated by Miranda's character, it seems you could really peal away a few layers from her and fine a real person.

Look into the OP. jtav's fanfic "Persistence of Memory" is linked there. I think it's safe to say that she's one of the few who can write Miranda perfectly.

Thanks leldra, I am on it, I can't wait to read it.

[jlb524]

My worry is that they will do whatever the heck they want with these female characters to make them more palatable to who they perceive as the audience for them (young dudes).



They may think it's a brilliant idea to slowly soften Miranda up to make her more popular as a character and LI (and more folks will like her and praise BW for making 'great' characters, etc.). I'm not sure if they write with the audience in mind, or if they just write what they would think is 'interesting'. I hope it's more of the latter and not the former.



I don't even want to think about my fears on what they could do with Liara's character.

[jtav]

I worry about it too. The worst part is that there are people who really do want that softer Miranda. And where does that leave me? Will I have to find a new favorite character?

[jlb524]

I guess it depends on the extend that the writers listen to fans on the forums. This thread has a group of people who basically agree that Miranda's character shouldn't be overhauled so she can be a more 'perfect' girlfriend to Shepard. However, I'm sure the internets are full of people who do wish this.



I actually couldn't blame you for finding a new favorite character if they do this, as she wouldn't be the same character you knew and loved. She looks the same and sounds the same as Miranda, but that's where the similarities end. I'd feel the same if they have Liara becoming twisted and corrupted by power in ME3 and Shepard must swoop in and save her from herself. Ick.

[Elyvern]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Do you think there's a possibility that this may not have been implemented due to design limitations? Not every player would have used Miranda during every mission, and this may have resulted in them missing out on this character development. Instead of devising a way to incorporate this convincingly, they completely removed it and had Miranda resign without expressing any prior reservations about Cerberus and TIM.

It's quite frustrating, actually.

Yeah, there is every reason to see it as design limitations. But it's come to the point where I am wondering if my romancing her as maleshep has any culpability towards softening her character to the point of unacceptability. If this is the case, I would even forego romancing her to prevent such character assassination from taking place. I was discussing with Collider about Miranda's romance on the CDG forum, and how Bioware could have introduced a deeper emotional connection between her and Shepard. I felt one possible option would be to have Shepard confide in her during their romance dialogue over his unease about TIM's motivations and have him talk about the pressure he undergoes being torn between the council and working for Cerberus.

Her counselling Shepard would not just taking advantage of her position as XO (something that's introduced and then woefully neglected in terms of characterisation)would go further towards levelling their relationship because she is actually able to help Shepard by easing a load off his mind, and in the same time, she would be able to hint at her reservations with TIM and Cerberus. That way, at least any maleshep who romances her, and arguably has the biggest influence on her character change would have to go through that mandatory scenario and as a result find it easier to accept her resignation at the end of the CB mission. But it still wouldn't mitigate my outrage at her saying the betrayal line unfortunately.

[Prudii Aden]

I think you're looking for this link then Ieldra...

[Elyvern]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That would be excellent, and would intertwine certain aspects of her character and it's development together, some of which are woefully neglected as you said. I'd love it if a more platonic variation were available to FemSheps too, as that's an aspect of her development that I would love to experience for myself. It would also function to augment Miranda's friendship path which, despite the fact that it is the most extensive of all the female ME2 LIs, is still lacking to a certain degree.

Very much so. I haven't actually completed a femshep playthrough (every maleshep I have romances her because it gives me the deepest access to Miranda's character and I can't do that on femshep), but I've seen the scene before the O-4 relay where Miranda says it was a pleasure to serve under Shepard and I was extremely touched by the wholehearted way she salutes Shepard. I kept thinking, wow, how far she's come since the beginning of the game. I intend to begin a new femshep game from ME1 who romances Liara and ends up being comrades-in-arms and close confidant with Miranda in ME2. But you're absolutely right, Bioware could really take a branch from DAO and give us more friendship options with people we don't choose to romance or are of the opposite gender. It really doesn't need to be a case of if you can't get that character into bed, they have nothing left to say to you.

Modifié par Elyvern, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:28 .

[jtav]

Agreed. I've been very vocal in my preference for FemShep and dislike of the romance, but Miranda is still the highlight of my game.

[jlb524]

I hope there are no new romances and as most of the existing ones are on good terms now (minus Ash and Kaidan but hopefully they will get DLC soon) I hope they can take the time to develop friendship paths for ME3 to develop the LI characters even further outside the realm of romance (of course, they should also keep developing the romance too).



I know this won't happen, but I can wish. My fear is that Miranda (and other LIs) will be similar to how Garrus was in ME2. If romanced, you get a decent amount of convos. If not romanced, you get one convo, plus the one pertaining to the LM and then it's 'calibrations time'. They may not bother developing the LI characters much outside of romance, and that's quite disappointing.

[jtav]

It is. Especially since I like unromanced Miranda better. All my favorite moments are friendship moments. But they probably will go that route.