15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Character development. It still exists.

[Markinator_123]

All she does is soften up a little bit. She still remains pragmatic which makes her emotional instablity at the collector base completely out of character. An individual who finds placing a control chip in another human's head acceptable(which is something that borders on the moral event horizon) should find nothing wrong with keeping enemy technology.

[jtav]

I agree with Mark here. It's a drastic change, and we're shown nothing of what leads up to it.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Markinator_123 wrote...

It's funny that Miranda finds keeping enemy technology reprehensible but is completely comfortable with putting a control chip in another human being's head (taking away another person's free will is just something that is hard to forgive!). Just wierd!

Well, when you look at it from my perspective, it'll probably make sense. Given that the people in the pods were all colonists, and the fact that Oriana wanted to work in a colony, Miranda's mind may have imagined Oriana being in one of those pods, being melted into genetic goo to make some horrible thing, and Miranda freaked out right there and then. Also, she's finally seen the Cerberus failures, and she realises that TIM was just feeding her propaganda the whole time. She also realises that TIM is going to carry on melting people in pods for the purpose of 'experimentation', and she can't have that. Not after seeing the kidnapped colonist melted away right in front of her eyes. Well, that's my view.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Constructive criticism. Is Miranda too nice here?

[...]
She's very much spot on. Her decision at the end is what makes her approach different from the usual Cerberus modus operandi. It's not as if she can't try again for the memories of the attack itself if what she'll get with the Toombs/Shepard scene is not enough.

[TheNexus]

If you've never seen this Yvonne interview...it's....







well....yeah......

[Ieldra]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

It's funny that Miranda finds keeping enemy technology reprehensible but is completely comfortable with putting a control chip in another human being's head (taking away another person's free will is just something that is hard to forgive!). Just wierd!

Well, when you look at it from my perspective, it'll probably make sense. Given that the people in the pods were all colonists, and the fact that Oriana wanted to work in a colony, Miranda's mind may have imagined Oriana being in one of those pods, being melted into genetic goo to make some horrible thing, and Miranda freaked out right there and then.

That she feels that way is no surprise. But consider this: a wrong decision here may doom the entire galaxy, and everything she loves with it. Everyone on the team knows this. That, knowing this, she would throw all her rationality, her pragmatism and her professional competence into the wind and make a recommendation on nothing but emotion is incomprehensible. I say that the realization that she might doom the galaxy should have as much impact and prevent her from acting impulsively. 

Also, she's finally seen the Cerberus failures, and she realises that TIM was just feeding her propaganda the whole time.

What has she seen that she hasn't seen before and that can be attributed to Cerberus?Teltin was disavowed as being TIM's responsibility, Overlord hasn't been visited yet (at least in most games I guess). TIM also didn't feed her propaganda, the only thing he didn't mention was how far he is willing to go for his goals.

She also realises that TIM is going to carry on melting people in pods for the purpose of 'experimentation', and she can't have that. Not after seeing the kidnapped colonist melted away right in front of her eyes. Well, that's my view.

Not even if that decision may doom the entire galaxy? "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere" - that's what she says earlier, that's an attitude that practically defines her. Then, she gives in, and it's OK because it's personal and doesn't affect the mission. This is different. I can see her react several ways - conflicted, thinking of pragmatic reasons to destroy the base, recommend keeping it in spite of her emotions, saying "We must destroy it, but make sure EDI's extracted all the data", anything like that. What I can *not* see her doing is giving no consideration at all to the strategic dimension of the decision. That makes her appear incompetent and sentimental. She isn't that. 

[Ieldra]

TheNexus wrote...
If you've never seen this Yvonne interview...it's....



well....yeah......

I can't get it. Youtube tells me it isn't available in my country. Damn copyright. Do you have any other sources? Or is it not worth watching?

[TheNexus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheNexus wrote...
If you've never seen this Yvonne interview...it's....



well....yeah......

I can't get it. Youtube tells me it isn't available in my country. Damn copyright. Do you have any other sources? Or is it not worth watching?

If you type in " Yvonne Strahovski on Attack of the Show" there's several videos of the same thing. One of them should probably work for you.

It's just a very awkward interview to the point of being silly and ridiculous.

[Prudii Aden]

Oh yeah - I remember that - the guy was ridiculously creepy.

[Xilizhra]

Not even if that decision may doom the entire galaxy? "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere" - that's what she says earlier, that's an attitude that practically defines her. Then, she gives in, and it's OK because it's personal and doesn't affect the mission. This is different. I can see her react several ways - conflicted, thinking of pragmatic reasons to destroy the base, recommend keeping it in spite of her emotions, saying "We must destroy it, but make sure EDI's extracted all the data", anything like that. What I can *not* see her doing is giving no consideration at all to the strategic dimension of the decision. That makes her appear incompetent and sentimental. She isn't that.

You know, people don't always act in the same way regardless of situation. It's totally fine for you to think that Miranda made a bad decision here, but I don't think it's fair for her to say it's completely out of character. She herself says that she makes mistakes, and she also refuses to believe that Niket turned against her until it was almost too late; she has a blind spot, I think, to anything related to her family or reminding her of them.

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not even if that decision may doom the entire galaxy? "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere" - that's what she says earlier, that's an attitude that practically defines her. Then, she gives in, and it's OK because it's personal and doesn't affect the mission. This is different. I can see her react several ways - conflicted, thinking of pragmatic reasons to destroy the base, recommend keeping it in spite of her emotions, saying "We must destroy it, but make sure EDI's extracted all the data", anything like that. What I can *not* see her doing is giving no consideration at all to the strategic dimension of the decision. That makes her appear incompetent and sentimental. She isn't that.

You know, people don't always act in the same way regardless of situation. It's totally fine for you to think that Miranda made a bad decision here, but I don't think it's fair for her to say it's completely out of character. She herself says that she makes mistakes, and she also refuses to believe that Niket turned against her until it was almost too late; she has a blind spot, I think, to anything related to her family or reminding her of them.

The question is: do I really want to believe she acts in an incompetent and sentimental way at the biggest decision in her career, where a mistake could doom the galaxy? *Can* I really believe that she'd be unable to override her emotions at this point, when I believe that anyone competent enough to arrive at this point in such a mission, and really facing such a decision, would stand back for a moment and consider the strategic implications? No, it's too mind-numbingly stupid to believe. And even worse, it feeds the stereotype of women acting emotionally where they really shouldn't - I think someone among the writers didn't think about what kind of woman Miranda is and just chose a stereotypical line for her. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...
Oh yeah - I remember that - the guy was ridiculously creepy.

That interview? Better forgotten, I say.

[enayasoul]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

It's funny that Miranda finds keeping enemy technology reprehensible but is completely comfortable with putting a control chip in another human being's head (taking away another person's free will is just something that is hard to forgive!). Just wierd!

Well, when you look at it from my perspective, it'll probably make sense. Given that the people in the pods were all colonists, and the fact that Oriana wanted to work in a colony, Miranda's mind may have imagined Oriana being in one of those pods, being melted into genetic goo to make some horrible thing, and Miranda freaked out right there and then. Also, she's finally seen the Cerberus failures, and she realises that TIM was just feeding her propaganda the whole time. She also realises that TIM is going to carry on melting people in pods for the purpose of 'experimentation', and she can't have that. Not after seeing the kidnapped colonist melted away right in front of her eyes. Well, that's my view.

I'd have to agree with this.

We can't all be clear-headed all the time. pragmatic all the time. Even our emotions get the better of us when it becomes personal or close to our hearts. I can see Miranda freaking out.  Just look at her emotions when she says, "I don't know what this is... is it stress or blowing off steam." etc.

Even I, think the blinds have been lifted from her eyes about Cerberus.  Just my opinion, we all have our own ideas of why she did it. 

TIM Is going to do whatever it takes, he does not care one **** about anyone but himself  "saving humanity" as he puts it.

I am a bit supporter of blowing up the base and telling TIM to kiss my ass.

[Ieldra]

Phew, that other thread about Miranda actually turned into an interesting discussion. But I'm spending too much time posting, so here's just a screenshot.



@enyasoul:
I guess we have to agree to disagree here. Sure we can't be pragmatic all the time, but if we're professionals, we should be when it counts. Everything else is better discussed on the Collector Base decision thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[Caihn]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Oh yeah - I remember that - the guy was ridiculously creepy.

They made a more interesting interview after this ridiculous show. Yvonne talks about her voice acting, and about Miranda.
Here :

[Elyvern]

Thanks for the vid link, Yannkee. I can't view the earlier one posted either. Not available in my country. Nightwriter once said there was a talkshow where they played the sex scene out, and basically Strahovski never knew of its existence, so her entire expression was like "WTF!?" Does anyone have a link to that?

[Caihn]

Here : http://yvonnestrahov...f-the-show-g4tv

But Yvonne didn't discover the scene. This stupid guy only wants Yvonne to be uncomfortable about it.
He just deserves a punch in his face for his behavior during the whole interview.
Yvonne is great during the show, but I think she expected a "professional" interview, and not a talk with a moron.

[Caihn]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

 Given that the people in the pods were all colonists, and the fact that Oriana wanted to work in a colony, Miranda's mind may have imagined Oriana being in one of those pods, being melted into genetic goo to make some horrible thing, and Miranda freaked out right there and then. Also, she's finally seen the Cerberus failures, and she realises that TIM was just feeding her propaganda the whole time. She also realises that TIM is going to carry on melting people in pods for the purpose of 'experimentation', and she can't have that. Not after seeing the kidnapped colonist melted away right in front of her eyes. Well, that's my view.

That's also mine.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Here : http://yvonnestrahov...f-the-show-g4tv

But Yvonne didn't discover the scene. This stupid guy only wants Yvonne to be uncomfortable about it.
He just deserves a punch in his face for his behavior during the whole interview.
Yvonne is great during the show, but I think she expected a "professional" interview, and not a talk with a moron.

Yannkee, it's nice to see we can still agree about something. That guy is so horribly immature and moronic that you can only admire Yvonne's patience. An Al-Jhilani-style knockdown would have been appropriate.

As for your previous post: Maybe Miranda freaked out. Maybe that's understandable. Maybe it's excusable. But acting on it without further reflection is mindnumbingly stupid nonetheless.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2010 - 08:31 .

[Elyvern]

I agree. That was quite, quite creepy the way he came on to her. Kudos for her aplomb there.

[enayasoul]

Yannkee wrote...

Here : http://yvonnestrahov...f-the-show-g4tv

But Yvonne didn't discover the scene. This stupid guy only wants Yvonne to be uncomfortable about it.
He just deserves a punch in his face for his behavior during the whole interview.
Yvonne is great during the show, but I think she expected a "professional" interview, and not a talk with a moron.

wow! thanks for the link! I never saw this. and i watched another link where she talks about her boyfriend being absent minded.
www.youtube.com/watch

So Miranda would probably over look Shepard "dumb ass" moments. 

Modifié par enayasoul, 25 novembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Xilizhra]

As for your previous post: Maybe Miranda freaked out. Maybe that's understandable. Maybe it's excusable. But acting on it without further reflection is mindnumbingly stupid nonetheless.

Miranda never acted at all; all she did was speak one thought that came into her mind. The base was Shepard's decision, and Shepard was the one who took action.

[enayasoul]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for your previous post: Maybe Miranda freaked out. Maybe that's understandable. Maybe it's excusable. But acting on it without further reflection is mindnumbingly stupid nonetheless.

Miranda never acted at all; all she did was speak one thought that came into her mind. The base was Shepard's decision, and Shepard was the one who took action.

And maybe she trusted Shepard in that decision.  One thing that comes to mind while I was writing my fic.  I don't think Shepard ever let Miranda down?  He was always there... helping the crew, making sure they all survive.  

She had to at least know that he was intelligent to know what he was doing. He was the leader.  (I guess depending on how you played the game.  None of my crew members died, did all their loyalty missions.)

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for your previous post: Maybe Miranda freaked out. Maybe that's understandable. Maybe it's excusable. But acting on it without further reflection is mindnumbingly stupid nonetheless.

Miranda never acted at all; all she did was speak one thought that came into her mind. The base was Shepard's decision, and Shepard was the one who took action.

The speech was her action. I meant "to act on that feeling without further reflection".