15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

enayasoul wrote...
So Miranda would probably over look Shepard "dumb ass" moments. 

She'd have to be very forgiving to do that. Shepard has a few of those.

[jtav]

I could use a cheery screenshot. God, I hate being pessimistic.

[Ieldra]

A cheery screenshot. Hmm...how about this one:



Expressing the hope that we all have reason to smile come ME3!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2010 - 09:28 .

[jtav]

I love that scene. *feels better*

[enayasoul]

I like this one too.

Modifié par enayasoul, 25 novembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Pwnisher]

I like all of those pics.

[Ieldra]

Much of the Miranda discussion has moved to the better-structured CDG forum. From here on, I'll occasionally repost some topics debated there here in case anyone is interested.

This topic has come up before, but hasn't actually gotten a lot of attention. The question is, what exactly does Miranda's father want, what purpose lies behind the "dynasty". Elyvern has summarized the known facts:

This is one of the foggiest things about Miranda's past, and I keep thinking if we are given more information as to what was meant exactly, it could probably shed more light into her childhood and the possibly horrific experiences she underwent.

What we have so far:

1. She was the first child that her father kept. The fate of the earlier chidlren or how many there were is unknown.

2. She was forced to meet impossible demands (studies? possible in other areas as well?) and wasn't allowed the chance to socialise with her peers

3. Oriana was grown when she was a teenager. This assumes that she was prepared to be replaced, possibly going the fate of the previous children before her. Or that she's version 1.0, and Oriana is version 1.1.

4. We don't get anything definitive but judging from Miranda and Oriana, past discards are likely female.

5. She eventually found something unbearable (or it could be just all the mounting stress) that caused her to become involved in a firefight and run away before she was likely a legal adult and saddled with a baby (Oriana). It was never specified what that incident was except that her predecessors were done away with could be a possible reason.

6. Her father was as she describes, egomaniacal, which suggests he was doing this primarily for his personal benefit. Also, it seemed he didn't see his daughters in a parental light but more like assets. All qualified information, of course, because the person who tells us this is Miranda, who also coined the term "dynasty".

7. She didn't have a mother for a genetic template. Most of her genetic material was derived from her father's who then possibly had his X chromosome converted to Y for the purpose of creating a viable zygote.

Given all this information, what kind of scenarios would fit all the above?

Addendum 1: her infertility seem to suggest along with many things that it could be genetic damage in origins. The possibility that her father could've engineered that in her as a birth control mechanism, isn't likely, as prior to the problem, she was perfectly fertile. However, the likelihood of it being a fallout because of possible experiments on her cannot be discounted.

Addendum 2: If the timelines are to be taken at face-value, it's likely that Miranda isn't a accidental biotic. Which means that she was intentionally engineered a biotic as a child. Assuming that would require surgery or invasive procedures to grow eezo nodules in her nervous system, this could be one of the trauma she'd have undergone as a child.

There are several possible scenarios that come into my mind, but I won't pre-empt others's speculation. What do you think is the purpose behind that "dynasty"? Only this in advance: a genetically distinct "genetic aristocracy" is almost impossible to contain - the traits will make it into the general human population eventually. So either there must be a mechanism to avoid that - or that's not the goal. If not, what could it be?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:20 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Much of the Miranda discussion has moved to the better-structured CDG forum. From here on, I'll occasionally repost some topics debated there here in case anyone is interested.

This topic has come up before, but hasn't actually gotten a lot of attention. The question is, what exactly does Miranda's father want, what purpose lies behind the "dynasty". Elyvern has summarized the known facts:

This is one of the foggiest things about Miranda's past, and I keep thinking if we are given more information as to what was meant exactly, it could probably shed more light into her childhood and the possibly horrific experiences she underwent.

What we have so far:

1. She was the first child that her father kept. The fate of the earlier chidlren or how many there were is unknown.

2. She was forced to meet impossible demands (studies? possible in other areas as well?) and wasn't allowed the chance to socialise with her peers

3. Oriana was grown when she was a teenager. This assumes that she was prepared to be replaced, possibly going the fate of the previous children before her. Or that she's version 1.0, and Oriana is version 1.1.

4. We don't get anything definitive but judging from Miranda and Oriana, past discards are likely female.

5. She eventually found something unbearable (or it could be just all the mounting stress) that caused her to become involved in a firefight and run away before she was likely a legal adult and saddled with a baby (Oriana). It was never specified what that incident was except that her predecessors were done away with could be a possible reason.

6. Her father was as she describes, egomaniacal, which suggests he was doing this primarily for his personal benefit. Also, it seemed he didn't see his daughters in a parental light but more like assets. All qualified information, of course, because the person who tells us this is Miranda, who also coined the term "dynasty".

7. She didn't have a mother for a genetic template. Most of her genetic material was derived from her father's who then possibly had his X chromosome converted to Y for the purpose of creating a viable zygote.

Given all this information, what kind of scenarios would fit all the above?

Addendum 1: her infertility seem to suggest along with many things that it could be genetic damage in origins. The possibility that her father could've engineered that in her as a birth control mechanism, isn't likely, as prior to the problem, she was perfectly fertile. However, the likelihood of it being a fallout because of possible experiments on her cannot be discounted.

Addendum 2: If the timelines are to be taken at face-value, it's likely that Miranda isn't a accidental biotic. Which means that she was intentionally engineered a biotic as a child. Assuming that would require surgery or invasive procedures to grow eezo nodules in her nervous system, this could be one of the trauma she'd have undergone as a child.

There are several possible scenarios that come into my mind, but I won't pre-empt others's speculation. What do you think is the purpose behind that "dynasty"? Only this in advance: a genetically distinct "genetic aristocracy" is almost impossible to contain - the traits will make it into the general human population eventually. So either there must be a mechanism to avoid that - or that's not the goal. If not, what could it be?

There is no much point in trying to deduce Daddy's motives. Because all that information comes from Miranda. It's clear she hates her father, and this may skew her presention of facts to Shepard. But there is a hard fact that Miranda, despite all her intelligence and other undeniable outstanding qualities is a poor judge of people's characters and motives. Proof: Nikket mainly, but also TIM.

There is another fact: Daddy was interested in bringing back Oriana, (despite the fact that he could clone a dozen new "dynasties" over the "more than a decade" he spent on seaching for Oriana), but apparently not in killing or somehow punishing Miranda.

Ceterum censeo, Miranda is not 35.

[Xilizhra]

Gah. Your assessment, Zulu, is making me wish more that it was possible to replace Miranda with Enyala in some assumption that she was wrong about her father... sometimes I miss the lack of explored nuance in this game (mostly with Morinth).

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...
me wish more that it was possible to replace Miranda with Enyala.

Why I am not surprized.

[Ieldra]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
There is no much point in trying to deduce Daddy's motives. Because all that information comes from Miranda. It's clear she hates her father, and this may skew her presention of facts to Shepard. But there is a hard fact that Miranda, despite all her intelligence and other undeniable outstanding qualities is a poor judge of people's characters and motives. Proof: Nikket mainly, but also TIM.

As I've said before, she's a good judge of character in a professional capacity - otherwise she couldn't have maintained that galaxy-wide network of contacts. As soon her emotions become involved, that changes drastically - she's not so good where her family and her personal loyalties are touched. How far off (or not?) her assessment of TIM is remains to be seen.

As for deducing fer father's motives, while of course we can't do that with certainty, we can make plausible speculations. For instance, it is very plausible that he wanted more than just genetically improved daughters. We can try to trace outlines by tracking what is and is not possible or likely to achieve with genetic engineering. We have the term "dynasty", which is significant. There aren't that many scenarios that fit the pattern, unless his plans are outside our imagination - which I doubt.

There is another fact: Daddy was interested in bringing back Oriana, (despite the fact that he could clone a dozen new "dynasties" over the "more than a decade" he spent on seaching for Oriana), but apparently not in killing or somehow punishing Miranda.

Miranda is protected by Cerberus much more directly than Oriana. There is also the possibility that Miranda fits into his plans whether he has direct control over her or not. Or that he doesn't care anymore because he knows she can't have children naturally - though why he would care about that remains a mystery, given that he's got the technology to make offspring regardless.

Ceterum censeo, Miranda is not 35.

LOL. I wish they cleared that up canonically somewhere, including how Miranda got her biotics, so that this phantom can be laid to rest. I don't think I need to repeat all the arguments...

[Xilizhra]

Yes, surely the fact that I'm not terribly fond of an evil vengeance-obsessed mercenary implies that I think that all humans suck.

[Ieldra]

I'm looking for interesting scenarios to cure or circumvent Miranda's infertility in a fanfic. Any ideas?

A little funny anecdote regarding the topic of Miranda's creation and her infertility: When you search for "artificial gametogenesis" on Google, the first entry is the paper I linked in the Miranda Lawson FAQ, and the fourth entry the Miranda Lawson FAQ itself [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 novembre 2010 - 08:36 .

[Ieldra]

double post

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 novembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[jtav]

Can you tell me a bit more about the fic and exactly what you need?

[Elyvern]

Like jtav says, once again, more information would be helpful.

[Ieldra]

It's not the technical stuff I'm looking for, but a reasonable non-cliché plot around it that's set after ME2. I'm guessing that there will be time between the end of ME2 and the start of ME3. For one, I don't want to involve Shepard, but this is a timeline where attraction between them exists and has been acknowledged by both. Still, I want the emotional impact of that as much in the background as possible. Second, I'm looking for a good motivation for Miranda to have it removed now although she doesn't think of having children for the foreseeable future. It may be as simple as having the opportunity.

Ah, and this is the timeline of "Promethean Legacy", i.e. the same Miranda. Miranda has two, maybe three living sisters, at least one of which she doesn't know exists. Miranda has not resigned from Cerberus.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[Elyvern]

I'm thinking a reconnection with Project Lazarus may be able to provide that plot you're looking for. Granted the station itself was destroyed, but suppose there was prototypical technology that had to be invented for Shepard's ressurrection. Miranda could be called upon to advise another cell on a machine that primarily regenerates badly damaged organs, or maybe there's danger of a leak to the public about the truth behind Shepard's return and she has to do damage control. This could play either way:

1. feature a damn project for once that doesn't have morally reprehensible shades, or backfires

2. or if you like it to substantiate her growing doubts on Cerberus, you could go the usual way again.

This gives her time off the SR2 and on official business that doesn't require Shepard to tag along.

?

[Elyvern]

Or hmm....a trip back to Illium to gather some supplies and she goes back to that prenatal care clinic that gave her that blasphemous dossier and while there, she demands an explanation for the slipshod alternatives the doctor gave her (it would assuage my outrage somewhat). And then under the pretext of meeting up with contractors and suppliers, Shepard need not be at the location again. She could also perhaps contact Liara and Liara being the SB would already know that information, perhaps Liara has a lead to some new technology on her infromation network? Knowing her, she'll probably feel empathic towards Miranda's plight?



And here I thought Promethean Legacy took place primarily in the past. You mean the story takes place between the past and present?

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
And here I thought Promethean Legacy took place primarily in the past. You mean the story takes place between the past and present?

It was originally conceived to have two parts, one in the past and one after ME3. That's because MIranda coming to terms with her origins must be a part of the story, and it would be uncanonical to put that in the past. The infertility severely muddled up my plans, and I must now include something about reversing it. At the moment, I'm just mentally experimenting with inserting fragments into the timeline at different points. I'd have put it into the after-ME3 part except I'm too much influenced by "Degrees of Inheritance" at the moment to make up a scenario that feels sufficiently my own.

Apart from that, all my MIranda fanfics (will) take place in the same universe if the premises are compatible.

Thanks for your ideas, BTW. They did help triggering my imagination.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[Elyvern]

No probs. Just thought of another, don't know how you can link it to her infertilty, but she could visit Oriana again, during some brief downtime. It might make a nice link between parts that are the present and her past. The effect of seeing her sister living a normal life may prompt her to try and secure her own future somehow. You could have her go back to Earth that way, maybe Oriana went back there? And technology in the motherworld could be far more advance than what drifts out to the Terminus Systems. Just tossing out ideas when they appear.

[t3HPrO]

Time for another Miri screenshot...

[tommyt_1994]

Screenshot time. My avatar over at CDG:

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 27 novembre 2010 - 12:39 .

[Ieldra]

@t3HPrO:
Miranda really needs to exorcize her father come ME3 and come to terms with the fact she really is great for her personality and her achievements instead of only for her engineered traits (though they do help)!

@tommyt:
I like that expression. Which scene is it from?

And here a new screenshot from the opening scene. I like confidence in that posture:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 novembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[Elyvern]

I've got a new question: if her father dies, how do you think Miranda would feel? Relief? Would there be a sense of regret? Or even a tinge of kinship that may compel her to mourn for him a little despite all she thinks he has done to her?