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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#9776
Ieldra

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That sounds about right, COAW.

But I have to mention the possibility that she just won't care much. We have no way to know how she'd react, because we don't know if she's ever thought about having children. I can easily imagine a reaction like "I never wanted children anyway." She'd still feel it as a kind of insult given her otherwise perfect health, but it might not be a big issue.

There's also this: she is very competent in biology and she's been the head of Project Lazarus. It would immediately occur to her that she - or Cerberus - has the technology to reverse her condition and that doctor's recommendation is based on insufficient knowledge. Another reason why this might not be such a big issue. If you want to make the problem serious, it has to be something other than a "benign neoplasm".

In the end, it depends. If you write her reaction, enyasoul, whatever it is, make sure it fits with her generally reserved personality, and you'll be fine. Everything else depends on how serious you want this to be - in a medical sense, and for her personally.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 décembre 2010 - 08:08 .


#9777
Ieldra

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This is a crosspost from the Character Discussion Group forum about the topic

"What had Miranda's father planned with and for her? What's the meaning of the "dynasty"?

I summarized the three scenarios we have so far together with a few relevant questions, for those who are interested and don't already know:

We have basically three scenarios:

(1) The Ideal Daughter:
Miranda's father wanted to create an ideal child to inherit his business, nothing more. The "dynasty" is just a figure of speech, as in the everyday usage where the families controlling business empires are sometimes called that (at least in my country, that is). He wanted to make sure his heir is capable and willing to do what's excpected of her. The main problem with this is the biotics: biotics can be useful for many things, but a corporate executive wouldn't profit much from them. jtav, since you favor this scenario, how would you explain this?
The question "why has he gone after Oriana instead of making new daughters" remains open to speculation. It could be as easy as the wish to retain secrecy or to be obsessive about never letting anything go that belongs to him.

(2) The Genetic Destiny:
Miranda's father wanted to create natural human biotics and leave the traits that make this possible as his legacy on the human genome. That's Elyvern's scenario. The first problem with this was that Miranda couldn't have been intended as the first natural biotic, because biotics weren't known when she was born. That has been circumvented by hypothesizing that Miranda and Oriana are intended to be the mothers of the first natural biotics. That would mean, in turn, that their genome had to be modified retroactively to the same specifications as a natural biotic's, including their ova. It would also include an engineered craving for food containing eezo both for Miranda and Oriana while pregnant as well as for the children while they grow, in order to build up the nodules required for biotic abilities.
The question "why has he gone after Oriana instead of making new daughters" remains open to speculation. In addition to the possibilities above, there is a possible contamination of the human gene pool by imperfect "specimens" to consider.

(3) The Master Race:
Miranda's father wanted to create a new human subspecies, distinguished by enhanced abilities and biotics. The term "dynasty" would indicate that the improved humans were intended to be influential or even rule. In this case, there must be mechanism to keep the species separate. The new humans would not be able to have children with normal humans, only with each other, but they would still be attracted to normal humans, for a significant number of generations at least. So they would be able to pass as normal humans to a certain degree, interact with humans normally etc.. They would need to eat eezo-rich food when growing up, that's the single obvious difference. In addition, a sustainable population would need to be created from scratch, with improved genomes that could be as few as, say, a hundred individuals. Genetic diversity would be lost, but that's nothing that couldn't be dealt with by genetic engineering after a few generations. The answer to the question: "Why didn't he clone additional daughters" could be "he did, but every individual counts." in addition to the possibilities already mentioned. On the outside, this scenario would look identical to Elyvern's for a few generations, until it became apparent to everyone that the new subspecies can't mate with normal humans.

Which of these scenarios is the most likely one depends on several factors:

(a) How serious are we intended to take the term "dynasty"? Scenario 1 fits most closely but seems a bit small. It's also (IMO) the least interesting scenario from an Sci-Fi viewpoint. Scenario 3 fits figuratively and scenario 2 not at all.

(B) How sane and educated is Miranda's father? He controls a business empire, so I feel justified in saying that he is not psychotic and relatively educated. I cannot imagine he would go for something like scenario 3 without being aware of the most basic problem of how to keep the genetic traits exclusive. Scenario 2 fits if you discount the "dynasty", and if you see him as relatively sane and beneficial except on a personal level. In scenario 1, I'd ask "What's the point of it"? If anything, it seems not ambitious enough for a man like him.

© How advanced is reproductive medicine and biotechnology in the ME universe? I would have to say "very much so", considering that something like Miranda's and Grunt's creation is at all possible, and that the Lazarus project is at all possible. While not exactly widespread, it is plausible that artificial wombs and artificial gametogenesis do in fact exist and are known to exist, and that genetic engineering is only limited by the knowledge of how to create hypothetical traits and resources. In this scenario, only the natural biotics and the creation of a genome from scratch would be real cutting-edge research, and non-biotic human improvements only limited by law and resources. Given that Miranda's genome was created in 2150 and that biotechnology has moved forward since then, none of the scenarios are likely to be limited by technology.

(d) How feasible are these scenarios? Scenario 1 is the most feasible, but I discount it as not ambitious enough. Scenario 3 is the least feasible, I only have a preference for it because I wanted Miranda's father to have a properly sinister agenda in my fanfics. Scenario 2 is more beneficial in a general sense, and I actually like it. My problem with it that it paints Miranda's father as idealistic, something I have a little trouble to build into my mental image of him.

OK, that was it. Any questions? Suggestions?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 décembre 2010 - 04:40 .


#9778
enayasoul

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Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

enayasoul wrote...

Sorry to bring this up again but I am working on an angle in my fic with Miranda's initial reaction to the doctor's analysis... about her infertility. (I'm going with her getting checked out after the suicide mission, with her relationship with male shep progressing deeper... ) How do you think she would react? In disbelief, anger, sad, in denial? And her insecurity that if she tells him he might just bolt and leave her... I have some ideas but would like some input. :D


I think her initial reaction would be a mix of anger and stubborn denial. She would then move on to sadness, but it would be well internalized. She doesn't show her emotions easily.


Yeah, I agree.  She seems to be very cautious and hesitates a lot too.  Always needing to think about situations.

#9779
enayasoul

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Ieldra2 wrote...

That sounds about right, COAW.

But I have to mention the possibility that she just won't care much. We have no way to know how she'd react, because we don't know if she's ever thought about having children. I can easily imagine a reaction like "I never wanted children anyway." She'd still feel it as a kind of insult given her otherwise perfect health, but it might not be a big issue.

There's also this: she is very competent in biology and she's been the head of Project Lazarus. It would immediately occur to her that she - or Cerberus - has the technology to reverse her condition and that doctor's recommendation is based on insufficient knowledge. Another reason why this might not be such a big issue. If you want to make the problem serious, it has to be something other than a "benign neoplasm".

In the end, it depends. If you write her reaction, enyasoul, whatever it is, make sure it fits with her generally reserved personality, and you'll be fine. Everything else depends on how serious you want this to be - in a medical sense, and for her personally.


Yes, I think she would feel it as an insult giving that everything else about her is perfect.  Maybe listing it as another failure caused by herself?  Or she just blames it on her father.  But I have a feeling she was fertile until this all happened. 

She does come to the point that she wants to find out why it has happened to her and find a way to maybe reverse it, cure herself if it was something more serious.  An accomplishment she might want to do for herself with Mordin's help.  She doesn't seem like she do anything for herself... like the scene with Oriana.  "It's not about what I want."  

Mainly, she never thought that Shepard might have wanted kids... She could be doing it for him, and maybe after some thought for herself.  That's the way I thinking about going in the fic.  She does ask for Mordin's help but she also keeps that secret from Shepard as least for the moment.  he does find out... but I wanted to explore the implications of what she'd be feeling when she received the news.

:?

#9780
Ieldra

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Long time no screenshots....



Posted Image



More interesting stuff later.

#9781
Axestone

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Long time no screenshots...

Very long...


Posted Image



Amazing ... Add frame and can hang on the wall :D

Modifié par Axestone, 02 décembre 2010 - 06:35 .


#9782
MsSihaKatieKrios

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Long time no screenshots....

Posted Image


Nice, but looks kinda yellow-ish.

#9783
Ieldra

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It's from Aeia - the lighting is like that there. The yellowish tint gives it a nice patina IMO. Could be used as a template for an oil painting.
Unfortunately the one who makes these amazing paintings restricts himself to ME1 characters. I could try to re-touch it to resemble an oil painting, now that I think of it. Hmm...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 décembre 2010 - 09:00 .


#9784
MsSihaKatieKrios

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I'm currently doing that fic I've always wanted to do. It's going to be told from Miranda's POV in the first person, and my Michael Patrick Shepard is going to be a lot like Patrick Jane from the Mentalist, who can see through even Jack and Miranda's emotional walls, but he also has a few scars from his past (he's a hybrid sole-survivor and war hero Spacer and Infiltrator, but he also has biotic abilities, so expect some friction when Miranda and him talk about Cerberus. OMG I'm so nervous...wish me luck!

#9785
t3HPrO

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@MsSihaKatieKrios

Good luck! And really, there's no need to be nervous. Once you start writing, you'll be unable to stop. My own fic was intended as a kinkmeme oneshot, but look at it now.

#9786
Ieldra

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Here's another question we're currently debating elsewhere:



Who wrote Miranda? Has anyone got information about that?

#9787
Johnny Chaos

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Just started ME2



I want some of dat ass

#9788
Ieldra

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I hope you'll come to appreciate Miranda for more than her ass eventually, Johnny Chaos.

#9789
Johnny Chaos

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Ieldra2 wrote...

I hope you'll come to appreciate Miranda for more than her ass eventually, Johnny Chaos.


she got some big boobs too....................... just kidding

I like her she tries to be perfect and Shepard talks to her about noone is perfect. (I was a douche to her at Cerberus facility)  They both have alot in common.

#9790
Jebel Krong

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Posted Image



cr: freakshow6



i'm still lurking but the same recycled discussions on the forum are boring me now, sadly.

#9791
t3HPrO

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Yeah it's the same here Jeb. There's only so many times you can recycle the same old topics...

#9792
Jebel Krong

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frankly i'm surprised they haven't even teased something - anything - just to get people talking about something fresh and keep the game in people's minds (and xboxes). i guess they're counting on the spike trailer/whatever it turns out to be to do that.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:18 .


#9793
snfonseka

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Am I recycling this image..... again?:huh:  I can't remember.....
Posted Image

#9794
snfonseka

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Another image because I really like her facial expression in this image! :D

Posted Image

#9795
Ieldra

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Lovely pictures, people. And a truly great find, Jebel Krong.

Here's a wish I posted on another forum regarding Miranda's infertility and how to deal with it: Leave it out of the main game, but make an after-the-end dialogue similar to those we get in DAO: a short talk where you can mention it, and get a number of options that basically define how things stand.

For instance:
Option 1: I never wanted children anyway, and I can't see you as a mother.
Option 2: You brought me back from the dead. Curing you shouldn't be a big problem now that we've got the time.
Option 3: We'll have to live with it - but humanity owes you for that sacrifice, and I won't let them forget it.

That way, you could essentially write your own epilogue. Everyone would be happy!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 décembre 2010 - 06:07 .


#9796
jtav

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That would make me very happy indeed, Ieldra.

#9797
Elyvern

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The only gripe I have with this is then you have to romance her to cure her infertility. But I guess we can't have the best of both worlds. :(

#9798
enayasoul

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Lovely pictures, people. And a truly great find, Jebel Krong.

Here's a wish I posted on another forum regarding Miranda's infertility and how to deal with it: Leave it out of the main game, but make an after-the-end dialogue similar to those we get in DAO: a short talk where you can mention it, and get a number of options that basically define how things stand.

For instance:
Option 1: I never wanted children anyway, and I can't see you as a mother.
Option 2: You brought me back from the dead. Curing you shouldn't be a big problem now that we've got the time.
Option 3: We'll have to live with it - but humanity owes you for that sacrifice, and I won't let them forget it.

That way, you could essentially write your own epilogue. Everyone would be happy!


I'm not all that fond of after-the-end dialogue options.   It good to know where they are going but I'd rather it be discussed in the main game and dealt with on-going through the game.  Making it, difficult choices about it... I still want her in the game...

But that's just my personal opinion.  I think it should be a condition if you romanced her. Unless Miranda felt comfotable talking about it with someone else or dealing with it by herself if she wasn't romance.

I don't know. :(

I do like option 2 but I would hope she took care of it long before the end. :mellow:

#9799
Ieldra

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The problem, enyasoul, is that this is a very minor matter for everyone except Shepards romancing Miranda. Other characters don't even have something similar, since Miranda was singled out to have a personally important problem added by LotSB ***suppressing a rant with all my willpower***. I don't trust Bioware's willingness to accomodate different outcomes in this unless the resources they'd have to spend were almost negligible - and the best chance for that is an after-the-end dialogue.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 décembre 2010 - 10:47 .


#9800
Strikor2115

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Heres a piece I just finished, I went with a new style on this one,



Posted Image