15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyvern]

aeetos21 wrote...

(snip)

That was the gist and some of it applies here I think. The big question (in us Mir/Shep fans) is what do you see - since we know that its likely the two won't die in battle unless we royally screwup on our playthroughs. Do you see Miranda and Shep one day settling down and starting a family? Or do you see them fighting to the end?

I did give this question some thought as it's relevant to the fic I'm writing right now.  Her own biological timeclock is vastly inflated chronologically. Setting aside the infertility issue, even at 90, she'd still be able to conceive naturally and will be in her 40s-50s physically, but Shepard will be hitting old age if he lives that long. 

I also think that Shepard's lifespan post-Lazarus is shortened because of the number of combat upgrades he'd indiscriminately applied to himself. By their nature, combat upgrades are invariably short-term augmentations at the expense of long term sustainability. Take for example performance enhancement drugs like stimulants and adrenaline boosts - they improve combat performance at the cost of acceptable risk. In the long term, these upgrades run into the danger of causing strokes, heart problems, elevated stress levels. Through the use of the Widow and Claymore shotgun, we are already given hints of the kind of excessive augmentation Shepard can implement, so god only knows how far Shepard has gone pass the threshold of acceptable risks. 

Also through the rebuilding screens, it's obvious that Shepard has a number of natural organs left--the primary one we see is the heart. Even with cybernetic upgrades, he can only push the limits as far as the organic parts of his body allows him. Sure, augmented muscles mass and bones can go longer and be pushed harder, but the heart is the organ that's going to supply them with blood to function. Without safeguards, pushing to the tried and true limits of cybernetics will cause the heart to burst one day. And those aren't just the only complications we can talk about. -- there are also things like nerve degenerative disorders, muscle atrophy syndromes.

Bioware hasn't said anything that would go to detract or support that hypothesis, it is just as valid as the other one that posits Shepard will have a longer lifespan because of Lazarus Project. In my story though, Miranda will have to accept the fact that Shepard will die far earlier than her, and she'd be moved to adhere to Shepard's biological timetable for major life decisions. It's why I see her taking extended time-off for 20-30 years to take care of personal matters as being a good possibility.

I'm also of the opinion that it's not likely Miranda would be able to find life partners easily. She has very exacting standards and deepset trust issues, and likely Shepard is the first person she could really fall in love with. Nonetheless, she's only lived a fraction of her lifespan and her subsequent personality changes and events may have her finding someone else after Shepard. Nothing can be ruled out.

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Ieldra]

It is rather interesting how the discussion always drifts off to relationships and the impact of certain facts and evebts on them. The main topic of the post triggering this latest exchange was Miranda's idealism as a motivating passion. But no, all people want to talk about are relationships.

@Elyvern:
Regarding Shepard's lifespan, I think that your scenario is plausible, but only if Shepard continues to live a lifestyle where his augmentations are required *and* he remains in some disregard of his health issues. With a less taxing lifestyle, his augmentations could be removed and any damage repaired. Replacing organs by new ones cloned from the patient's own tissue should be standard by now.

Having said that, I've always considered Miranda the more healthy template for a high-performance human. Why did they use cybernetic replacements instead of cloned parts in the Lazarus project, when their stated goal was to bring Shepard back as he had been? It makes no sense...  

BTW, the last screenshot in your post on the previous page is very beautiful.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 décembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[t3HPrO]

I suspect that when Cerberus put in all those genetic mods and cybernetics into Shep, his/her lifespan got lengthened somewhat. Maybe till he/she has the same life expectancy as Miranda, or maybe even more.



@Ieldra2



Cloning would take a bloody long time, and they didn't have time for that so they went all robo-Shep. Remember, the Collectors were already lifting colonies when the SR1 went firework display.

[t3HPrO]

Going off-topic, I picture Miranda's father as a 'Hannibal Lecter'. Highly intelligent, very refined, smooth mannered, yet completely brutal and psychotic behind closed doors. Anyone's who's watched Silence of the Lambs should know what I'm talking about. Anyone? No one? I'm only 18, yet I feel so old all of a sudden.

[t3HPrO]

Pic posting time once more.

[Ieldra]

aeetos21 wrote...
That was the gist and some of it applies here I think. The big question (in us Mir/Shep fans) is what do you see - since we know that its likely the two won't die in battle unless we royally screwup on our playthroughs. Do you see Miranda and Shep one day settling down and starting a family? Or do you see them fighting to the end?

Neither. I can see Miranda taking 20 years off for a family as Elyvern suggested - but "taking off" would not mean she doesn't work, only that she has a kind of work compatible with raising children. After that, I do not see her settling into a "settled" lifestyle, but neither will she continue the kind of extremely hazardous work she does now indefinitely. If she stays in the intelligence sector - I think she's suited for that - it will probably more in a co-ordinating, leading or administrative/analytical position. Other lines of work that would appeal to her and suits her mentality and abilities include long-range exploration or cutting edge scientific research, preferably in combination. I also have a scenario where she and Shepard and a number of like-minded individuals leave known space for an unknown destination, never to be seen again, and another scenario where Miranda and Shepard are heads of a big private investigation agency, spending their time traveling around in their HQ, a large spaceship that doubles as permanent living environment for a few dozen people, families included.

In general, I think we should be more imaginative when imagining Miranda's future lifestyle. What's the point of Sci-Fi if we don't imagine a future different from the present? Why stick to old hats if infinite possibilities present themselves to us? Or is it that human nature limits us too much, that "There are infinite possibilitilies, but not for man." (from "Neverness", by David Zindell, 1990). In that case, it's time to move the transhuman agenda represented by Miranda forward.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Pic posting time once more.

Wow.
Thank you for giving me the first erotic Miranda picture I really like.

BTW, I watched "The Silence of the Lambs when it came out in 1991 . There is something in what you say. Miranda's father would almost need elements of such a personality to be convincing. Only not quite as extreme - you can't be so extreme and still head a big corporation, you obsessions will get the better of you eventually.

As for the cloning, they had two years. Should be enough.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It is rather interesting how the discussion always drifts off to relationships and the impact of certain facts and evebts on them. The main topic of the post triggering this latest exchange was Miranda's idealism as a motivating passion. But no, all people want to talk about are relationships.

For me personally, you basically articulate my unvoiced thoughts, and in such a thorough and comprehensive manner, it doesn't leave much room for debate. I do really like Miranda's pro-active nature. She's not one to lie down and wait for things to fall into motion. Yes, she feels she can make a difference, but I believe she also harbours no illusions regarding what would be achievable and what would be ultimately pointless. For example, I think she doesn't believe that she can change the general human mindset. Her goals would always tend towards concrete achievements - mostly in the science and technological fields, and not so much political or social causes. Her cynicism on the nature of all sapien races on Omega and at the the bar at Illium is proof of that. Money and power can affect political and social decision making on a wide enough scale to direct and funnel humanity's energies, and if she were in a position to do something like that, she'd likely use money or power to effect reforms, it's unlikely she'd appreciate a democratic approach to decision making. She'd probably tear her hair out.

@Elyvern:
Regarding Shepard's lifespan, I think that your scenario is plausible, but only if Shepard continues to live a lifestyle where his augmentations are required *and* he remains in some disregard of his health issues. With a less taxing lifestyle, his augmentations could be removed and any damage repaired. Replacing organs by new ones cloned from the patient's own tissue should be standard by now.

Indeed, in my fic, Shepard remained augmented for more than a decade to the point where irreversible damage had set in. His problem is also a widespread, non-localised disorder which precludes the possibility of replacing damaged parts piecemeal.

[Elyvern]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

Neither. I can see Miranda taking 20 years off for a family as Elyvern suggested - but "taking off" would not mean she doesn't work, only that she has a kind of work compatible with raising children. After that, I do not see her settling into a "settled" lifestyle, but neither will she continue the kind of extremely hazardous work she does now indefinitely. If she stays in the intelligence sector - I think she's suited for that - it will probably more in a co-ordinating, leading or administrative/analytical position. Other lines of work that would appeal to her and suits her mentality and abilities include long-range exploration or cutting edge scientific research, preferably in combination.[/quote]

I agree with this, regardless of Shepard's lifespan. Don't forget too that once children grow up, they lead their own lives. Like the codex on humanity states: 18 is the time when humans are effectively set for the adult world. They can enter the working world or opt to specialise further in different studies. In 25-30 years, provided you don't stagger births too far apart, both of them can go back to being a couple again and doing whatever they want, while communicating with their children occasionally. A 200 year, or even a 150 year lifespan in Shepard's case, really precludes the notion of settling down permanently unless we're talking about the last few decades. [/quote]

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:13 .

[Elyvern]

Hrm....okay, doing a For Science! Suicide Mission where I end up with Miranda as the only person who can hold the biotic bubble and she says "I think it's possible. I can't protect everyone, but we may get a small team through if they stay close."

If Jacob is alive, he'd say the same line that Samara did, and Miranda will follow up with her default line.

Edit: for the alternative runthrough and the exact quote.

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

@Ieldra2

Yep, I agree with t3hpro and you. Lawson Sr. can't be that extreme for sure. I don't think the image is erotica though, cause there's more...revealing ones out there.



@Elyvern

I agree, I think Miranda would probably be in admin or something like that. But you seem to think that we're talking about making her a fulltime housewife, which would be a resounding no. Honestly...maybe she could take over her father's empire, whatever that may be. I think he's an info broker.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Hrm....okay, doing a Suicide Mission where I end up with Miranda as the only person who can hold the biotic bubble and she says "I think it's possible. I can't protect everyone, but I think we can get a small team through."

I must try that for myself. So much better than what she usually says. How did you get Samara to die so early?

[Elyvern]

@MS - no, all I did is point out considerations that may not have crossed people's minds. Granted too, after ME3, any player can imagine their Shepard/LI ride off into the sunset and that's entirely their perogative.

@Ieldra - I just don't recruit her at all.

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 décembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[hooahguy]

t3HPrO wrote...

Pic posting time once more.

That  is actually the best not ingame pic of Miri Ive seen yet.
Amazing!

[jtav]

I've been musing on various possible ME3 decisions and it got me thinking. Miranda loves Oriana more than anything in the world, but she's also very pragmatic. How high would the stakes have to be before she'd allow Oriana to die? If, in ME3 she was put into a Virmire style situation where she had to choose between her sister and an unromanced Shepard who would she choose? What about her sister and a group of civilians?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

jtav wrote...

I've been musing on various possible ME3 decisions and it got me thinking. Miranda loves Oriana more than anything in the world, but she's also very pragmatic. How high would the stakes have to be before she'd allow Oriana to die? If, in ME3 she was put into a Virmire style situation where she had to choose between her sister and an unromanced Shepard who would she choose? What about her sister and a group of civilians?

Hmm... that is tricky, I think even unromanced if she considers Shepard to be the bloody icon and potential saviour of the Galaxy she might consider it, not so sure with regards group of civilians, the fact is a lot of people when put in that situation would want to protect their own before everyone else. Just reminded me of a few people doing that in '24' in one of the seasons (forgot which season it was).

Your point has just got me wondering though, what if Oriana was now on Earth

I mean what better place to put her than where her Father would least expect Oriana to be.

[jtav]

The thought has occurred, but it's so depressing that I shy away from it. That's the one thing that I think would break her.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Another freaky thought, her dad trying to broker some deal with the Reapers. Specially if he knows that Miranda is with the one person the Reapers have an interest in.

[aeetos21]

Earlier when I phrased it - going down fighting or settling down and living the white picket fence ****, I didn't mean they'd live like that for the rest of their lives. A good example is the spacer back story, Hannah Shepard started a family, had Shepard, and by the times he/she's 30 his mom is still in the Alliance and in command of the Kilimanjaro dreadnought of all things. I've toyed with ideas on how she and Shepard would spend their "twilight years" and the part about the augmentations giving out after a while makes sense - I could see Miranda realizing this before any symptoms showed and so taking preventive action she would "chat up" her "old man" to find out just how he managed to grow so many organs and, people. Like others have said, if they can grow a person then growing an organ from a matching blood type and genocode shouldn't be too hard at all.

THAT'D be an interesting DLC mission for any Shepard I think post-ME3. But moving on... For some people, some soldiers for example, once they live a certain lifestyle they can't really go back to normal. I'm reminded of how Jeremy Renner portrayed an EOD technician in the movie "Hurt Locker." As stressful and at times horrifying his job was he loved it and when he returned home to his wife and child - he couldn't deal with it. He needs the job.

So yeah, I can see them settling down for a bit but as for retirement... Double checking Mass Effect wikia... yeah Miranda is born in 2150 and Shepard is born in 2154. And while we're on the topic (quick tangent here) the other maleshep LIs are either about eighty years older than him (Liara) or younger: Ash (2158, 4 years younger), Jack and Tali (2161, 7 years younger), and Kelly isn't listed but she seems younger so... Alright tangent over with.

The personal time over for twenty-thirty years sounds good with an odd mission here or there, especially the giving Shepard a longer lifespan one. After that...?

Edit: That picture is crazy awesome. Hopefully though in ME3 we'll start seeing less Cerberus stencils associated with her and more... something of her own I guess.

Modifié par aeetos21, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I've been musing on various possible ME3 decisions and it got me thinking. Miranda loves Oriana more than anything in the world, but she's also very pragmatic. How high would the stakes have to be before she'd allow Oriana to die? If, in ME3 she was put into a Virmire style situation where she had to choose between her sister and an unromanced Shepard who would she choose? What about her sister and a group of civilians?

For the first, I think she'd choose Shepard, especially post ME2 when it has been proven that Shepard is likely the galaxy's best shot at defeating the Reapers. It'd probably break her heart, but I think the choice would be pretty clear cut here. The second scenario is harder to envision, but personally, I think she'd choose her sister and then never forgiving herself for making that choice. But if asked again to make the choice, she'd probably choose the same. She'd make the decision knowing full well the responsibility and the moral implications of her actions. 

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 décembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[Ieldra]

I agree with you, Elyvern, except I think she would not bear a permanent mental scar from the second one.

[jtav]

I think she'd be scarred no matter what she chose. I think Oriana's death is the one thing that could break her. My gut says she'd have an easier time sacrificing Shepard, but that may be because I still don't get why he's humanity's only hope.

[enayasoul]

this song by muse, almost always makes me think of Shepard and Miranda...   www.youtube.com/watch



I think Miranda would be heartbroken if he dies depending on how their relationship had developed and how much she had fallen in love with him.  I don't think Shepard would let her die either!

God, I would be so bummed if Shepard dies, even if he's a dork at times! 

Modifié par enayasoul, 13 décembre 2010 - 10:40 .

[hooahguy]

Maybe if Shep and Miri died together? Of course, this is the only option I would want if Shep had to die. I would rather he lived.

[Ieldra]

I would want that Miranda lives if she can. Always. With or without Shepard. This "die together" thing may be oh-so-romantic, but Miranda isn't like that. I can see them both "go out in a blaze of glory", but only if there was no other way for either of them, not as one going because the other one goes. Miranda won't do that, and neither will most of my Shepards.