15168 réponses à ce sujet

[ElectricZ]

lawp79 wrote...
Anyway, just a quick question re the SM I would like your thoughts on. If you take the option to destroy the base
she quits Cerberus and backs Shep, however Cerberus know her sisters location and at the end of her loyalty mission on the mission overview thing it says something about securing her sister will ensure Miranda's loyalty to cerberus. Just wondered how you guys think this may play out.


Be gentle im a lurker who rarely posts

TIM doesn't seem like someone who'd take kindly to that kind of betrayal. But out-and-out revenge would be a bad move. Miranda knows a lot about Cerberus. Its legal corporate fronts, sleeper agents, political connections, and where all the bodies are buried. The only thing TIM would want to use Oriana for is to lure Miranda in the open to kill her. Threatening or blackmailing Oriana just to keep Miranda in line is mutually assured destruction, at best.

Killing Miranda also is a bad move. Aside from the fact she's pretty good at taking care of herself, Miranda happens to be tight with one Commander Shepard: reaper killer, former spectre, savior of the universe, and multi-BILLION credit investment of Cerberus. TIM's got a lot riding on Shepard for multiple reasons. Turning Shepard into an enemy by hurting or killing Miranda,  especially if she's Shep's love, would be a sure-fire way for him to have his entire organization destroyed from under him, with his head on Shepard's wall right next to the model ship collection.

But TIM's human, he's got failings, and has been pointed out sometimes he'll pick up the idiot ball and charge for the end zone... So  retaliation on his part isn't out of the question. I just hope he (and the writers) are smarter than that... It would be nice if TIM kept his affably evil status instead of turning into a more cliched moustache-twirling-tie-your-sister to-the-train-tracks bad guy.

Note that I haven't read Retribution, which apparently sends TIM off the deep end. Pity.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 07 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[ADLegend21]

RE:Location of Miranda/Shep Love scene.

I remember reading a theory that by doing it so close to the engine core, the floors have a small vibration which would possibly increase the pleasure for Miranda which is why she chose it for the scene. Alas I forgot the source and it is just a theory, but that's how I can see it working.



Oh and she states in the CIC that she cleared the engine room so I'm guessing Shep did get down to the 4th deck and said "Hey Tali" before he had sex with Miranda.

[jtav]

Yes but Tali was the only thing to clear. Considering that she always has a crush on MaleShep, it makes Miranda look thoughtless and/or cruel. Add in that people really should be there, but aren't because they've all been kidnapped and it becomes downright creepy.

[Elyvern]

Which imo makes it even worse. Every other LI could settle for a proper bed. It wasn't the quality of the sexual experience that counted, what mattered was time spent together. Ugh....that ME core reasoning makes me hate the locale even more. *facepalm*

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

I know...remember when f*cking foxnews said that there was full on alien nudity in the firt ME? Well, they got everyone's attention and everyone charged out to buy it...and only got two measly seconds of side boob. In fact, I clearly remember my neighbor going 'FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU' at it, and I was pretty sure the whole block could hear it. ME2 was less erotic, less artful, and even less erection friendly(for the boys anyways).

[jtav]

Excerpt. Constructive criticism is more than usually welcomed. This is my first time even attempting Miranda in the first person. She's surprisingly difficult to get right.

The ship had been Feron's. The Plain Dealer had been rechristened the Silver Zephyr, her registration and ID signal changed to foil any Shadow Broker agents. Liara's final gift to us. She said she hadn't needed the ship were she was going. It reminded her of Feron and the choice the Collectors had forced her to make. She'd never said as much, but I knew how to read people, even asari. Ridiculous to feel guilty over a lying, backstabbing drell who nearly got her killed more than once, but I wasn't going to turn down a fast, relatively inconspicuous vessel. Our bags had already been taken aboard. A pity about the destination.

But, perhaps, not the company. I glanced at Kaidan out of the corner of my eye. He was wearing the dark, well-tailored suit he'd been given as part of his cover as Mikael Seta, owner of a small but prosperous import-export business and fence of choice for the discerning thief who wanted to dispose of unique items. The suit clung to him like a second skin, suggesting just enough of the muscular frame beneath to make anything short of a krogan think twice about starting a fight. He hadn't with shaved in three days. Another piece of the disguise. He kept running his fingers over the beginnings of his beard, as if he couldn't quite believe it was there.

"Don't do that," I whispered. The docking bay was not especially crowded at this hour, but there was no such thing as being too cautious in undercover work. "You'll draw attention to yourself."

His lips thinned. Irritation and hint of embarrassment, but he was trying not to show either. "Sorry. Just not used to it yet. I haven't tried to grow a beard since I was fourteen."

I didn't answer right away. Kaidan made the mission more complicated. He was a mission objective, just as the Reaper tech was. He was the reason I was here instead of on Lazarus Statin. The Illusive Man believed that he would be an asset to Cerberus. I was inclined to agree. He was a decorated soldier and a highly skilled biotic. More importantly, he believed in the Reapers and knew what was at stake. He'd managed to keep his position despite those in power denying that the Reapers existed. Not the sort of man who was likely to be dominated by his emotions. His psych profile suggested he had a relatively positive view of aliens. Good. Too many people confused the advancement of humanity with rampant xenophobia. He'd be perfect for us.

If I could recruit him. Which meant I needed him to like me. I'd never been good at that. I'd never particularly wanted my subordinates to like me. Respect was adequate. I couldn't manipulate him like I had my occasional mark, not if I wanted a working relationship with him later.

You could always seduce him. He'd certainly seemed interested the first time we met. I gave him credit for at least trying not to act like a dog in heat. My looks were yet another thing my father had given me. He'd hired researchers to calculate the traits most attractive to the average heterosexual human male and given them to his daughters. He had to keep the bloodline going somehow. It had proved useful in my line of work, though not in the way you would think. I'd promised myself after I left Omega for the first time that I'd never sleep with anyone unless I wanted to. I honored my promises. Flirtation was another matter. Not that it would be much of a hardship to flirt with Kaidan. And, perhaps, there would be more later.

I quirked my lips upward slightly. "Scruffy is a good look for you."

I was rewarded with a slow, easy grin that unfurled across Kaidan's face. No, this wasn't going to be a hardship at all. "Come on."

The Zephyr was as cramped as I remembered. She smelled of metal and the various fluids necessary to keep even a small smuggling vessel operational. At least someone had managed to find room for a second chair. The cargo hold was filled with unregistered small arms and bags of red sand. Another piece of our cover and material for bribery, if it came to that. She wasn't the most comfortable ship I'd ever been on, but she would serve well enough for the ten hour trip to Omega.

Kaidan took in the scene at a glance. I watched as his gaze fell on the small box I'd half-hidden under the pilot's seat. "What's that? It can't be cargo or you would have hidden it better."

My eyebrows went up. I'd placed the box there as a small test; I wanted to see how long it would take Kaidan to notice. He had exceeded my expectations considerably. I'd planned on giving him the contents once we reached on Omega, but perhaps he deserved a reward. "Actually, it's for you." I knelt, retrieved the box, and opened it. The omni-tool inside lay inert, with only the logo of the Serrice Manufacturing Council suggesting anything out of the ordinary. Kaidan shot me a surprised look when he saw it. "The Nexus 2300. Fastest, most efficient omni-tool in existence. It won't even be available to the general public for another four months."

He took it and fitted it on to his left arm with the ease of long practice. "I, ah, guess there are advantages to your line of work."

"You have no idea." Why not give him a taste of the wonders Cerberus was producing right now? Something to blot out the memory of our bases on Binthu and Sigma-23. Something unambiguously beneficial. "Our scientists have prototyped a subdermal omni-tool implant keyed directly to an individual's nervous system. Even higher performance and less conspicuous." I fought the urge to rub my arm. The operation had hurt only slightly less than the one that given me my biotics, but it had been worth it to have an omni-tool that was undetectable to all but the most advanced scans.

He thought for a moment. "I can see why the AIA would like that. Harder for any enemy agents to remove in case you get captured. A twenty-second century skeleton key."

"That too."

I sat in the pilot's chair while Kaidan took the other one." Neither of us spoke as I performed the necessary safety checks. Kaidan seemed content to watch me, and I was grateful. Too many people I'd been forced to work with spoke for the sake of speaking instead of for an actual reason. Kaidan was full of pleasant surprises today. I can only hope they continued once we reached the Terminus Systems.

"Ready?"

"As I'll ever be."

[elmjuniper]

hey...
i was thinking at work today about something, and please don't kill me, but don't Miranda and Liara have kind of quite a few things in common? It's like Miranda is like a darker version. They both have A parent that has been of significane in their lives and not two. Both their parents have been of high status (high matriarch/rich, influential) and they both regard their parent with a sense of... wariness (did i spell that right? probably not). They both kind of have trouble with the social bits, or how they talk to others. like Liara don't really know how to communicate with Shepard in the beginning and Miranda is more like abrasive. Just a thought...

Modifié par elmjuniper, 08 janvier 2011 - 03:27 .

[Prudii Aden]

You do have a point elmjuniper, they do have similarities in that respect, however what differs is how they pursued their lives. One chose to become an archaelogist, the other a covert operative. Also, there is a fundamental personality difference - one is willing to do (almost) whatever it takes, the other takes a lot of prodding. One is rational and highly pragmatic, the other is distinctly more idealistic. That one becomes less of one and more of the other isn't really an issue - more a potential (forced) change in character.

[stucksuburbanite]

ADLegend21 wrote...

RE:Location of Miranda/Shep Love scene.
I remember reading a theory that by doing it so close to the engine core, the floors have a small vibration which would possibly increase the pleasure for Miranda which is why she chose it for the scene. Alas I forgot the source and it is just a theory, but that's how I can see it working.

Oh and she states in the CIC that she cleared the engine room so I'm guessing Shep did get down to the 4th deck and said "Hey Tali" before he had sex with Miranda.

In the scene where Mordin gives his little sex talk to Shep, Mordin mentions creative uses for the mass effect field if you are a biotic.  Maybe the choice of location wasn't so much for aesthetic purposes but rather to enhance, *ahem* Miranda's talents.

P.S. I'm new to the forum so if you're wondering "wtf who's this?", that would be why.

[thatguy212]

I always pictured that the engine room was cleared like this

Miranda: Okay Miranda you have to be subtle about this, Hey tali

Tali: what is it miranda?

Miranda: Could you please leave this room for a bit so i can have hot steamy sex with the guy you have a crush on?

*Tali runs away crying*

Miranda: wonder what she's upset about?

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...
You do have a point elmjuniper, they do have similarities in that respect, however what differs is how they pursued their lives. One chose to become an archaelogist, the other a covert operative. Also, there is a fundamental personality difference - one is willing to do (almost) whatever it takes, the other takes a lot of prodding. One is rational and highly pragmatic, the other is distinctly more idealistic. That one becomes less of one and more of the other isn't really an issue - more a potential (forced) change in character.

I think Miranda is idealistic in that she works for a goal bigger than herself. She believes in a better future for humanity as a whole. Pragmatism and idealism are not opposing traits, and neither is opposed to being rational.  The opposite of pragmatism would be to be bound by rules or codes that limit your effectiveness (is there a technical term for that?), and the opposite to idealism would be cynicism. Neither Miranda nor Liara are that. Maybe you could say that Liara is less consequentialist than Miranda, but with ME2 Liara I'm not so sure.

[Ieldra]

stucksuburbanite wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
RE:Location of Miranda/Shep Love scene.
I remember reading a theory that by doing it so close to the engine core, the floors have a small vibration which would possibly increase the pleasure for Miranda which is why she chose it for the scene. Alas I forgot the source and it is just a theory, but that's how I can see it working.

Oh and she states in the CIC that she cleared the engine room so I'm guessing Shep did get down to the 4th deck and said "Hey Tali" before he had sex with Miranda.

In the scene where Mordin gives his little sex talk to Shep, Mordin mentions creative uses for the mass effect field if you are a biotic.  Maybe the choice of location wasn't so much for aesthetic purposes but rather to enhance, *ahem* Miranda's talents.

And there are yet more hypotheses about it: (1) the engine room is the only place on the ship not bugged by Cerberus, (2) it's neutral territory for both of them.

In the end, I don't think Bioware thought about this at all when they made the scene. They simply thought it was cool. It wasn't, especially not right after the crew abduction. I wonder if the team that decided about the location knew the context of what they were doing.

[Ieldra]

@jtav:

After the first reading there is nothing that strikes me as wrong with the way you write in Miranda's voice. I'll let it settle a bit and get back to you later.

[jtav]

Thanks Ieldra.



I think ME2 Liara and Miranda are very similar. Both are ruthless in pursuit of goals that are basically good, including leaving others in certain death situations. Neither of them is a people person but have learned to deal with them in the course of their jobs. Both of them are fiercely loyal to those they care about. Liara is nicer than Miranda, but I'm starting to think my scenario of Miranda mentoring Liara is as good an explanation as any.

[stucksuburbanite]

Bioware probably didn't think about the location with the engine room, which is very disappointing. It definitely makes it somehow less meaningful in my eyes.



And I've heard the whole Cerberus bugged thing, which makes sense given TIM but definitely brings big brother to a new extreme.

[Axestone]

Time for pictures:
Sly Miri

Modifié par Axestone, 08 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[Spartas Husky]

Axestone wrote...

Time for pictures:
Sly Miri

more like a high miri rather than a "sly" miri...

[elmjuniper]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Prudii Aden wrote...
You do have a point elmjuniper, they do have similarities in that respect, however what differs is how they pursued their lives. One chose to become an archaelogist, the other a covert operative. Also, there is a fundamental personality difference - one is willing to do (almost) whatever it takes, the other takes a lot of prodding. One is rational and highly pragmatic, the other is distinctly more idealistic. That one becomes less of one and more of the other isn't really an issue - more a potential (forced) change in character.

I think Miranda is idealistic in that she works for a goal bigger than herself. She believes in a better future for humanity as a whole. Pragmatism and idealism are not opposing traits, and neither is opposed to being rational.  The opposite of pragmatism would be to be bound by rules or codes that limit your effectiveness (is there a technical term for that?), and the opposite to idealism would be cynicism. Neither Miranda nor Liara are that. Maybe you could say that Liara is less consequentialist than Miranda, but with ME2 Liara I'm not so sure.

yeah, i was thinking that. if you look at Liara in ME2,she is quite... fierce. When you meet her the first time she is quite cold towards you (besides the kiss) and dead on focused on bringin down the Shadow Broker. and Miranda, yes, she does look towards the goal (succession of the suicide mission) and heads towards it with a quite focused and cold head, but then I keep thinking she would have to not assess her emotions when looking at the big picture - saving the galaxy and humankind from the Collectors. But  I do reckon both Liara and Miranda are idealistic, Miranda just also happens to be loyal to a dodgy organisation. I don't know I just find it fascinating that Bioware made two love interests with quite a lot of things in common. 

[elmjuniper]

jtav wrote...

I think ME2 Liara and Miranda are very similar. Both are ruthless in pursuit of goals that are basically good, including leaving others in certain death situations. Neither of them is a people person but have learned to deal with them in the course of their jobs. Both of them are fiercely loyal to those they care about. Liara is nicer than Miranda, but I'm starting to think my scenario of Miranda mentoring Liara is as good an explanation as any.

That would make sense. Just read your Miranda piece up above and the only thing I could spot was that you wrote, 'statin' instead of 'station'. other than that it feels believable and as if it is indeed Miranda's pov.

[Pacifien]

In the Kaidan thread, when I brought up Miranda's biotics in comparison to Kaidan, Mr.House responded with "Miranda's biotics are the reason why she was being replaced," but didn't clarify because that was the Kaidan thread. And this is the Miranda thread, so in response to Mr.House I go...

What? What are you on about?

[Ieldra]

Pacifien wrote...
In the Kaidan thread, when I brought up Miranda's biotics in comparison to Kaidan, Mr.House responded with "Miranda's biotics are the reason why she was being replaced," but didn't clarify because that was the Kaidan thread. And this is the Miranda thread, so in response to Mr.House I go...
What? What are you on about?

There was an idea floating around that Miranda's infertility may be a side effect of her having eezo in her body, and that the infertility was the reason she was replaced. However, that can't be because the infertility didn't exist when she ran away - it's caused by progressive damage, and that can't have started all that long ago.

I can see no other reason why her biotics would make her father replace her. IMO he wanted her to be a biotic. It can be no other way, since accidental exposure was extremely unlikely.

So, no, IMO that wasn't the reason her father wanted to replace her.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 janvier 2011 - 09:49 .

[Pacifien]

I don't like the idea that her father wanted to replace her. That cheapens the reason why she ran away in the first place. If it was because her father was intent on replacing her, she was simply running for her life. I prefer to think she ran away of her own free will because she wants to create her own destiny.

[Mr.House]

Miranda's biotics are not natural, it's imposable. Oriana's age is 19, this put's Miranda at 32 to 38, this means even when she was made she did not have her boitics. This means that later in her life her father made her a biotic by force(which could explain why she dislikes him so much and other reasons like not having a proper childhood and no love from her father)



Now look at Mr.Lawson's point of view. His daughter while a strong biotic, he could have a much stronger biotic if they where made with it already, this is one possible reason he wanted to replace her. We also know Miranda is not the only daughter Mr.Lawson made, she was the only one he kept, this means that he considered them failures, what happen to them we don't know. SO he started to make Oriana, now biotics are most likely not the only reason why Mr.Lawson wanted to replace Miranda of course. There is probably a lot of reasons why, but biotics are one of the reasons.



Now of course this is my theory, As for Ieldra's question on why I consider Miranda a more harden version Kaidan, both where alive when biotics where still new and people didn't know the potential they could have. Kaidan and a bunch of biotics where treated like test rabbits on Jump Zero, and the project ended badly with Kaidan killing his instructor, however Kaidan came to terms with his life and jonied the Alliance. Miranda a however had a harder time and instead of going with the Alliance she went with Cerberus because they helped her sister and in her eyes they where the reason why Oriana was safe. Miranda then worked with Cerberus and became ruthless, while still having a soft side for her sister. This is the opposite of Kaidan. Again this is my feeling on the matter.

[Caihn]

My new wallpaper :

[jtav]

Very nice Yankee.



I've connected Miranda's infertility and her biotics, but I also changed the cause of her infertility to damage to her eggs caused by a combination of trauma and eezo because that sounded more plausibly incurable. The canon infertility is likely caused by a genetic defect. It's one of those little rules of fiction. When someone says that a condition can't definitely be put down to a certain cause, it's 99% certain that the stated cause is to blame.