15168 réponses à ce sujet

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

If anyone wants villain material, have Zaeed Massani come after Shepard and his crew after Omega 4 and after Zaeed's contract is up. Insta success. Zaeed is completely ruthless and doesn't give a sh*t about anything or anyone and doesn't have moral conscience bugging him. That's total villain material, even better than Miranda is supposed to be.

[tommyt_1994]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

If anyone wants villain material, have Zaeed Massani come after Shepard and his crew after Omega 4 and after Zaeed's contract is up. Insta success. Zaeed is completely ruthless and doesn't give a sh*t about anything or anyone and doesn't have moral conscience bugging him. That's total villain material, even better than Miranda is supposed to be.

Hmmm, I think that idea has potential. Personally, I wish an un-loyal Miranda would turn on a Shepard who tries to blow the collector base. (please do not start up that topic AGAIN, this is my feelings on Miranda's villain potential) Strahovski has proven that she can do icy very well, I'd be interested in her in a villain role. Well, not on my canon because she's my LI, but on a different Shepard, sure. There seems to be a lot of potential there.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 09 janvier 2011 - 10:06 .

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Pinkflamingo22 wrote...
hold on are people suggesting she got implanted with biotics out of utero? How could one develop biotics outside of the womb? If someone could explain this to me it would be helpful.

The Codex mentions that before the genophage, some krogan became biotics through surgery, a practice that was then discontinued because of the high attrition rate. We think that Miranda's father's scientists adapted that procedure from the krogan and used it to give Miranda her biotics. We need that explanation because Miranda can't have been a "standard" biotic who was accidentally exposed to eezo in utero because (1) she's too old, and even if her age were wrong by the one or two years required, (2) it's unlikely that her father would have let Miranda's surrogate mother out of his sight; and even had she been at the Singapore incident in spite of this, (3) her father would have discarded her since the beneficial side-effects of eezo exposure weren't known until 2156.

I suppose the difference could be just how much is different between public knowledge about Biotic advancements/discovery vs what actually happened ™. I mean, it also seems unlikely that the Systems Alliance could have been formed 'just-like-that' after the discovery of the Prothean ruins.

P.S: Hi, long time no see.

Miranda's biotics: your scenario would again require presupposing secret knowledge, with all the evidence of a conspiracy theory - none. It would require that someone on Earth knew not only about eezo, but about biotics as its side effect in advance. There is always an infinite number of scenarios fitting any set of evidence. This is too much of a stretch for my version of Occam's Razor.

As for the Systems Alliance, no, it wouldn't have been formed almost immdiately after the discovery of the ruins on Mars, but the discovery of the mass relay would have been enough reason to form a mutual defense pact against a hostile alien contact that has suddenly become so much less unlikely.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

On the contrary, the best villains are those who believe they are doing the right thing. It wouldn't take much to put Miranda into Well Intentioned Extremist territory. She works for a terrorist organization, almost put a control chip in your skull and wanted Legion (who appears sentient) to be experimented om for the greater good. Imagine having all that courage, dedication, and intelligence working against you. She will do almost anything for her cause. That can be scary. All it takes is a few slight changes. If TIM had signed off on it, she would have crossed straight into villain territory. It wasn't ethics that kept her from putting in the chip. It was lack of permission. Brr.

I definitely wouldn't put it past a pre-ME2 Miranda to fall into that territory. I was just thinking about Wilson yesterday, and wondering not so much that he may be culpable of betray to cause Miranda to gun him. But when I kept in mind that they worked together for two years, despite the fact that she may distrust him, or even dislike/hate him for personal reasons, he remains someone she worked with closely for two years on an isolated project. And yet she doesn't bat a single eyelid when she denies him a chance for an explanation and literally, yes, literally kills him in cold blood. That together with the control chip incident that happens soon after does make me think she was really out in the woods, so to say morally speaking, at the start of the game.

[infidelious]

Has this been posted yet? Yvonne dressing like Miranda in the upcoming Chuck

[Elyvern]

ROFL! Nice try but I don't think that was Miranda's get-up, more like Black Widow's from Ironman 2, or your quintessential female spy get up.  

*waits to hear jtav squee*

[Caihn]

infidelious wrote...

Has this been posted yet? Yvonne dressing like Miranda in the upcoming Chuck

Yes, I've seen pictures of the shooting some weeks ago. I didn't post them here.
It should be an another kick ass Sarah Walker episode, and the fact that she's dress like Miranda will be fun.

Modifié par Yannkee, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:04 .

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
ROFL! Nice try but I don't think that was Miranda's get-up, more like Black Widow's from Ironman 2, or your quintessential female spy get up.  

*waits to hear jtav squee*

No no, jtav won't squee over Chuck.

Black Widow's get-up, btw, isn't so far removed from Miranda's loyalty outfit, as isn't this one:



Fortunately, these don't seem as far out of place in an SF setting. As long as the high heels are gone and we get a helmet added for the space missions, I could live with this 

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

OMG. Miranda-ized Sarah is SO hot. *Crazy-arse fangirl squealing*

But Miranda looks quite different from Sarah/Yvonne though...hmm...

Modifié par MsSihaKatieKrios, 09 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
As for the Systems Alliance, no, it wouldn't have been formed almost immdiately after the discovery of the ruins on Mars, but the discovery of the mass relay would have been enough reason to form a mutual defense pact against a hostile alien contact that has suddenly become so much less unlikely.

I don't have as much faith as you in international politics to believe this is so. I would think it would actually require hostile interaction with another species before something like the Systems Alliance to be formed, not beforehand.

My point being is this, if the Prothean ruins was actually discovered x years in advance to what is publicly attributable then perhaps human understanding of biotic potential/mass effect fields must also be x years in advance as well. For example; the F-22 may have been on Lockheed's drawing boards 20 years before materials/technology/manufacturing processes existed to create it. Basically, move the technology curve forward.

My 'Occam's Razor' suggests that due to these real life principals, then human technology may not necessarily match human understanding, which has traditionally been the case anyway. If entities such as Cerberus have existed for a while (i.e., not constrained with ethical principles when researching competitive edges) then mayhap Mr. X got some degree of help (and I certainly don't believe Mr. X is 'constrained' by ethical principles in any case) and he certainly has the private wealth and capital to pull that sort of stuff of.

[jtav]

Strahovski doesn't resemble Miranda that much in the promo.



Elyvern, the fact that she is pretty far out in the woods morally is what interests me. She's an idealist who's goals are good, but she's willing to do very questionable things without blinking. She's something of a jerk who is perfectly willing to let those under her die and wants to experiment on an apparently sentient robot. And yet, her vision of humanity seems to be one I can get behind. She's not a xenophobe. She doesn't take pleasure in her more questionable actions and doesn't automatically think kicking puppies is the best way to accomplish her goals.



But she still does things I'd consider immoral. She disapproves of Purgatory, not because she thinks torture is wrong, but because it's pointless. Even if she resigns, she hasn't completely thrown over her entire ethical system. If she has, she stops being the character I like.

[snfonseka]

Yannkee wrote...

infidelious wrote...

Has this been posted yet? Yvonne dressing like Miranda in the upcoming Chuck

Yes, I've seen pictures of the shooting some weeks ago. I didn't post them here.
It should be an another kick ass Sarah Walker episode, and the fact that she's dress like Miranda will be fun.

Is it just me or that black hair looks not so fitting for her?

[Elyvern]

@jtav - no, my point is your protrayal of Miranda in Persistence could actually stand to be far more ruthless than what I have read. I can get entirely behind the idea. The notion to give Wilson's working relationship more thought was something I think few people think about, but we can really extrapolate her personality to the extreme with that scenario.

@snfonseka - because it's a wig and therefore they can't show her hairline which makes the lack of bangs look really weird. it looks like part of her hair is plastered to her forehead. If you don't have bangs, you tend to sweep your hair backwards, expose the hairline and let it fall into place at the sides so it looks more natural, like Miranda's hair.

Modifié par Elyvern, 09 janvier 2011 - 02:59 .

[jtav]

Ely, if it's any consolation, she was going to drive someone to suicide over the course if the next two chapters. I just need a break from thinking about her lousy childhood for a while.

[Elyvern]

Whatever works for you. I'm just tired of the tendency to want to shield away from the fact that she has done distasteful things and may be compelled to do so again. I'm working on having her kill her own siblings in my story.

[jtav]

You're preaching to the choir here. I believe she has and will continue to do distasteful things. She'll almost always use the most efficient means available. What usually checks her is not ethics, but pragmatism. But if murder/torture is practical...

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
My point being is this, if the Prothean ruins was actually discovered x years in advance to what is publicly attributable then perhaps human understanding of biotic potential/mass effect fields must also be x years in advance as well. For example; the F-22 may have been on Lockheed's drawing boards 20 years before materials/technology/manufacturing processes existed to create it. Basically, move the technology curve forward.

Yes, and my point was exactly that that presupposition that the Prothean ruins were discovered years before it was publicly acknowledged means presupposing secret knowledge without any evidence, and for the that reason I must reject it on Occam's Razor. This is not contingent on the fact that human technology does not match understanding, but it would have required an active cover-up. Without any evidence *for* such a cover-up, I would not base any hypothesis on that assumption if a simpler hypothesis is available.

[aeetos21]

snfonseka wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

infidelious wrote...

Has this been posted yet? Yvonne dressing like Miranda in the upcoming Chuck

Yes, I've seen pictures of the shooting some weeks ago. I didn't post them here.
It should be an another kick ass Sarah Walker episode, and the fact that she's dress like Miranda will be fun.

Is it just me or that black hair looks not so fitting for her?

made my day :innocent:

[snfonseka]

Elyvern wrote...

@jtav - no, my point is your protrayal of Miranda in Persistence could actually stand to be far more ruthless than what I have read. I can get entirely behind the idea. The notion to give Wilson's working relationship more thought was something I think few people think about, but we can really extrapolate her personality to the extreme with that scenario.

@snfonseka - because it's a wig and therefore they can't show her hairline which makes the lack of bangs look really weird. it looks like part of her hair is plastered to her forehead. If you don't have bangs, you tend to sweep your hair backwards, expose the hairline and let it fall into place at the sides so it looks more natural, like Miranda's hair.

That's why I think it would be better if they coloured her actual hair rather than using a wig.

Modifié par snfonseka, 10 janvier 2011 - 03:51 .

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
My point being is this, if the Prothean ruins was actually discovered x years in advance to what is publicly attributable then perhaps human understanding of biotic potential/mass effect fields must also be x years in advance as well. For example; the F-22 may have been on Lockheed's drawing boards 20 years before materials/technology/manufacturing processes existed to create it. Basically, move the technology curve forward.

Yes, and my point was exactly that that presupposition that the Prothean ruins were discovered years before it was publicly acknowledged means presupposing secret knowledge without any evidence, and for the that reason I must reject it on Occam's Razor. This is not contingent on the fact that human technology does not match understanding, but it would have required an active cover-up. Without any evidence *for* such a cover-up, I would not base any hypothesis on that assumption if a simpler hypothesis is available.

The point of 'cover-ups' is that there is no evidence... that's why they're cover-ups . If you can concede the fact that the Systems Alliance and it's very formation has some degree of fishiness about it, then is it such a stretch therefore to presuppose other fishy things could happen? I don't have proof of course, more like a hunch.

I'm playing devils advocate here though honestly, I think while your scenario is more likely, I can't help but shake the feeling that there is more to human biotics than what we've been led  to believe, because to me so much about it just doesn't make sense (such as BAaT, how quick humanity came to connect element zero exposure to biotic tendencies and just how ready the Alliance was to engineer/support starship incidents)

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
My point being is this, if the Prothean ruins was actually discovered x years in advance to what is publicly attributable then perhaps human understanding of biotic potential/mass effect fields must also be x years in advance as well. For example; the F-22 may have been on Lockheed's drawing boards 20 years before materials/technology/manufacturing processes existed to create it. Basically, move the technology curve forward.

Yes, and my point was exactly that that presupposition that the Prothean ruins were discovered years before it was publicly acknowledged means presupposing secret knowledge without any evidence, and for the that reason I must reject it on Occam's Razor. This is not contingent on the fact that human technology does not match understanding, but it would have required an active cover-up. Without any evidence *for* such a cover-up, I would not base any hypothesis on that assumption if a simpler hypothesis is available.

The point of 'cover-ups' is that there is no evidence... that's why they're cover-ups . If you can concede the fact that the Systems Alliance and it's very formation has some degree of fishiness about it, then is it such a stretch therefore to presuppose other fishy things could happen? I don't have proof of course, more like a hunch.

I'm playing devils advocate here though honestly, I think while your scenario is more likely, I can't help but shake the feeling that there is more to human biotics than what we've been led  to believe, because to me so much about it just doesn't make sense (such as BAaT, how quick humanity came to connect element zero exposure to biotic tendencies and just how ready the Alliance was to engineer/support starship incidents)

The other point of cover-ups is that there usually is evidence if you look hard enough. If you look hard enough and still find nothing at all, *and* less complex scenarios explain the state of things as well, it's likely nothing more than a conspiracy theory. As in: the relatively fast formation of the Alliance is very likely the result of the ridiculously compressed timeline.

As for biotics: no, it's not at all a stretch to connect those "minor telekinetic" effects to the Singapore incident. If you have a group of similar observations you can't explain, the first thing you do is to look for something that connects them. The common element would have been almost immediately apparent. True biotics were only discovered after first contact, which suggests to me that humanity didn't learn how to amplify these telekinetic powers completely on their own.

Which means that, in the end, I don't think there is some "secret history" explaining how Miranda got her biotic powers. No knowledge of biotics earlier than mentioned in the timeline, no early secret knowledge of force-growing human children and mental imprinting technology. Her biotics are easily explained by using elements from the known history.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 janvier 2011 - 10:35 .

[Rykoth]

Well, now that I'm done with my Talimance Shepard, I'm going back and doing a different kind of Shepard. (an attempt at the pure "default" and how I interpret it.)



Probably gonna end up with Miranda come ME2 time >.>



For the Miranda fans, does an Earthborn dialogue have any nods to his history by Miranda who is supposedly earth born as well?

[Elyvern]

She has specific things to say depending on the background of your Shepard in the romance dialogue, but nothing links specifically with her own personal background.

[Ieldra]

Rykoth wrote...
Probably gonna end up with Miranda come ME2 time >.>

For the Miranda fans, does an Earthborn dialogue have any nods to his history by Miranda who is supposedly earth born as well?

There isn't any additional connection implied between them by the fact they're both earthborn, but Miranda refers to Shepard's background once in the second romance conversation, but only if you select "You sound unhappy" when it comes up. You can play through the conversation in the online dialogue tree. It's "Conversation 3".

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 janvier 2011 - 12:39 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
ROFL! Nice try but I don't think that was Miranda's get-up, more like Black Widow's from Ironman 2, or your quintessential female spy get up.  

*waits to hear jtav squee*

No no, jtav won't squee over Chuck.

Black Widow's get-up, btw, isn't so far removed from Miranda's loyalty outfit, as isn't this one:



Fortunately, these don't seem as far out of place in an SF setting. As long as the high heels are gone and we get a helmet added for the space missions, I could live with this 

Sienna Effing Miller in GIJoe! G'dam they should get her for Miranda if not Yvonne.