15168 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

Ryzaki wrote...

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]



That doesn't look so bad with a custom Shepard but still.

I actually steadfastly refuse to choose the "Love?" option on that.  The middle option...I don't remember the dialogue but it was much better and the rape face was gone.

[Ryzaki]

JeanLuc761 wrote...
I actually steadfastly refuse to choose the "Love?" option on that.  The middle option...I don't remember the dialogue but it was much better and the rape face was gone.

I have to admit that expression looks terrible with default Shepard. 

"I have candy get in the van" indeed.

Though I like the renegade teasing option.

[jtav]

The best line there is the one that breaks the romance. In my head, they decide to wait until after the SM and either go crazy then or decide to go ahead once the crew has been kidnapped because they realize there won't be a tomorrow.

[Ieldra]

@Ryzaki:

No, not everything needs to be explained, but Shepard's standard modus operandi makes him appear stupid. He's a military commander, he would be aware of the fact that his is an enemy HQ that might contain useful information. It might still be better to destroy it, but only after due consideration. His complete disregard for that dimension is inexcusable, and I doubt Miranda would be impressed by his stance.

About telling TIM to shut up, yes, I also like that line. But it doesn't fit most of my Shepards. Just as most of my Shepard won't be rude to the Council in ME1, they won't be rude to TIM in ME2, regardless of their differences.

We are agreed about the locker scene in ME1. That added so much to the romances. I with we could have something like the conversation with Liara with Miranda, admitted to her we're frustrated about things and giving her the opportunity to give some support. Though with Miranda, it probably would have been practical advice rather than emotional support.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 janvier 2011 - 07:47 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The best line there is the one that breaks the romance. In my head, they decide to wait until after the SM and either go crazy then or decide to go ahead once the crew has been kidnapped because they realize there won't be a tomorrow.

Yes, that's my favorite mental rewrite as well.

[Winterfly]

With Miranda its the other way around it seems. You give her the emotional support.

[Ieldra]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
That doesn't look so bad with a custom Shepard but still.

I actually steadfastly refuse to choose the "Love?" option on that.  The middle option...I don't remember the dialogue but it was much better and the rape face was gone.

"It doesn't matter. What matters is how we feel."

Too cheesy for me. *shudder* Right of a cheap romance novel. *shudder* It has the advantage that the rape face is gone, but I still can't use it most of the time.

[Ieldra]

Winterfly wrote...
With Miranda its the other way around it seems. You give her the emotional support.

You do that for all of them. My complaint is not that you do it - after all, romance should have that - but about the fact that it's so one-sided. Shepard never shows vulnerability, he's always in complete control of the situation. That unbalances the relationship. Not only Miranda's but all of them.

[JeanLuc761]

Ieldra2 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
That doesn't look so bad with a custom Shepard but still.

I actually steadfastly refuse to choose the "Love?" option on that.  The middle option...I don't remember the dialogue but it was much better and the rape face was gone.

"It doesn't matter. What matters is how we feel."

Too cheesy for me. *shudder* Right of a cheap romance novel. *shudder* It has the advantage that the rape face is gone, but I still can't use it most of the time.

I prefer "cheap romance novel" over "I have candy..."

But that's just me

[Winterfly]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...
With Miranda its the other way around it seems. You give her the emotional support.

You do that for all of them. My complaint is not that you do it - after all, romance should have that - but about the fact that it's so one-sided. Shepard never shows vulnerability, he's always in complete control of the situation. That unbalances the relationship. Not only Miranda's but all of them.

True indeed, his a shovel face in ME2 which is sad. He did or she did feel all "whats the point in this now!" in ME1! I dont remember who dropped by to talk with me in that sceenery on my first char but it was not romantic Cause he had no LI but it did give Shepard a more humane touch! 

[Ieldra]

JeanLuc, you do have a point. Fortunately it's not so bad with custom Shepards.

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Ryzaki:

No, not everything needs to be explained, but Shepard's standard modus operandi makes him appear stupid. He's a military commander, he would be aware of the fact that his is an enemy HQ that might contain useful information. It might still be better to destroy it, but only after due consideration. His complete disregard for that dimension is inexcusable, and I doubt Miranda would be impressed by his stance.

About telling TIM to shut up, yes, I also like that line. But it doesn't fit most of my Shepards. Just as most of my Shepard won't be rude to the Council in ME1, they won't be rude to TIM in ME2, regardless of their differences.

We are agreed about the locker scene in ME1. That added so much to the romances. I with we could have something like the conversation with Liara with Miranda, admitted to her we're frustrated about things and giving her the opportunity to give some support. Though with Miranda, it probably would have been practical advice rather than emotional support.

Considering she does the same thing she doesn't have a leg to stand on in that case.

Plus you do have due consideration. You're staning there and you make a decision. You don't exactly have the luxury of hours to pour over the decision.

And he should also be aware of the fact that the enemy HQ might have traps and is currently filled to the brim with things wanting to rip him into ittybitty pieces.   Like...every other enemy base has been so far.

Ah most of my Sheps would. Then again I started taking a liking to the SS background and add that to Jack and they feel TIM can go to hell.

Yes it did. One reason the Kaidan romance is my favorite is because of that scene. The ME2 having a similar scene would've been brilliant.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:10 .

[Ieldra]

And now we're at the crux again....her behavior at the Collector base. Really, every time I have to think about that I get angrier about her intelligence having dropped to that of a rock. Fortunately we can avoid that line. In fact, I think the complete writing at the final scene before fighting the Reaper shell is one gigantic ****up. I have the alternative to choose between "This is an abomniation" and "The rules go out the window". Neither says anything about the true issue at hand - the extent of the danger in giving the base to Cerberus vs. the hope for a technological break against the Reapers.



OK, enough about that, there have been wars about it and I don't want to start another one.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...
With Miranda its the other way around it seems. You give her the emotional support.

You do that for all of them. My complaint is not that you do it - after all, romance should have that - but about the fact that it's so one-sided. Shepard never shows vulnerability, he's always in complete control of the situation. That unbalances the relationship. Not only Miranda's but all of them.

Not entirely true.  There are a grand total of two situations in ME2 in which it's the NPC who offers Shep support and asks what Shep thinks honestly, not just the front s/he puts on.  Jacob's romance, and Liara in LoTSB.  Liara does it if you're in a friendship or in a romance, which I think is nice.  Jacob only does it for the romance.

But those two conversations aside, I do agree.  I much preferred Dragon Age's style of romance--it felt more like a give and take and less like the PC doing all the work.  

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And now we're at the crux again....her behavior at the Collector base. Really, every time I have to think about that I get angrier about her intelligence having dropped to that of a rock. Fortunately we can avoid that line. In fact, I think the complete writing at the final scene before fighting the Reaper shell is one gigantic ****up. I have the alternative to choose between "This is an abomniation" and "The rules go out the window". Neither says anything about the true issue at hand - the extent of the danger in giving the base to Cerberus vs. the hope for a technological break against the Reapers.

OK, enough about that, there have been wars about it and I don't want to start another one.

Yes because destroying the base means you have the intelligence of a rock.

And yeah let's not get into it. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:55 .

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And now we're at the crux again....her behavior at the Collector base. Really, every time I have to think about that I get angrier about her intelligence having dropped to that of a rock. Fortunately we can avoid that line. In fact, I think the complete writing at the final scene before fighting the Reaper shell is one gigantic ****up. I have the alternative to choose between "This is an abomniation" and "The rules go out the window". Neither says anything about the true issue at hand - the extent of the danger in giving the base to Cerberus vs. the hope for a technological break against the Reapers.

OK, enough about that, there have been wars about it and I don't want to start another one.

Yes because destroying the base means you have the intelligence of a rock.

Grrrrr. Why must people always misunderstand me? What I meant is: recommending to destroy the base for the sentimental reason she expresses means she's lost her common sense, to say nothing of her strategic reasoning. Which I don't think she would. And damn it, I'll stand by that, and I don't care if it causes another f****** flame war.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:34 .

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Grrrrr. Why must people always misunderstand me? What I meant is: recommending to destroy the base for the sentimental reason she expresses means she's lost her common sense, to say nothing of her strategic reasoning. Which I don't think she would. And damn it, I'll stand by that, and I don't care if it causes another f****** flame war.

What does common sense have to do with destroying/saving the collector base? I could just as easily destroy it using common sense.

The same for strategic reasoning.

Granted you're welcome to think she wouldn't destroy the base. Hell I don't but suggesting that it's a purely emotional response is pure ****ing bull****.

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...
Granted you're welcome to think she wouldn't destroy the base. Hell I don't but suggesting that it's a purely emotional response is pure ****ing bull****.

This is about her line "this feels like a betrayal", not about any recommendation as such. That *is* a purely emotional response, and since we don't get any other from her this is what I must assume is her reason to support destroying the base, which she apparently does from the comments we get from her afterwards.

Actually, I don't even know what she says afterwards when you destroy the base. What is it?

I do think she wouldn't destroy the base, but of course you're free to think otherwise, and the game unfortunately supports you more than me in this. What I feel she wouldn't do very strongly is recommending to destroy the base for the sole reason that "this feels like a betrayal".

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:47 .

[JeanLuc761]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Actually, I don't even know what she says afterwards when you destroy the base. What is it?

"We had to do it Shepard, destroying the base was the right decision.  The Illusive Man might not agree...but we had no choice."

All told, I'm not a big fan of the railroading Bioware did by having all the squadmates congratulate Shepard on destroying the base.

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This is about her line "this feels like a betrayal", not about any recommendation as such. That *is* a purely emotional response, and since we don't get any other from her this is what I must assume is her reason to support destroying the base, which she apparently does from the comments we get from her afterwards.

Actually, I don't even know what she says afterwards when you destroy the base. What is it?

Yes because everyone knows we all give our exact reasoning for doing something when we say something.

I believe she says something about it having to be destroyed and express relief that you destroyed it. Something to the effect of what you did was better. I need to reload and see what exactly but it was along those veins.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:46 .

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...
Yes because everyone knows we all give our exact reasoning for doing something when we say something.

Not all do so, no. But an experienced operative who has probably seen things almost as bad should be able to. Hell, even Shepard should. Instead we get "this is an abomination". Bah.

I would like someone to give me a better reason to destroy the base. Shepard. Miranda. Anyone. For then I could get Miranda to resign without feeling like a moron. But the game doesn't let me. While personally I don't agree, I can roleplay a Shepard who is persuaded by good reasons. But I won't play one who's persuaded by bad ones.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:53 .

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Yes because everyone knows we all give our exact reasoning for doing something when we say something.

Not all do so, no. But an experienced operative who has probably seen things almost as bad should be able to. Hell, even Shepard should. Instead we get "this is an abomination". Bah.

I would like someone to give me a better reason to destroy the base. Shepard. Miranda. Anyone. For then I could get Miranda to resign without feeling like a moron. But the game doesn't let me.

Really? Miranda's seen people turn into a giant abomination? Seen people she's worked with every day nearly (or get turned into) grey paste to create that thing?

Everyone has a breaking point. That just happened to be hers.

And your Shep surely can think for him/her self. That's what mine does. He/she never needed to be persuaded to destroy the base.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:54 .

[jtav]

I have this mental image of a wounded Miranda telling Shepard to destroy the base because she now sees TIM for the power-hungry monster he is and that giving the base to him will only cause more atrocities like Teltin. And she won't let that happen on her watch.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I have this mental image of a wounded Miranda telling Shepard to destroy the base because she now sees TIM for the power-hungry monster he is and that giving the base to him will only cause more atrocities like Teltin. And she won't let that happen on her watch.

And what about the effect on the Reaper war? You know, this ties in to that crazy image people have of Cerberus being more "evil" than the Reapers.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:59 .

[Ryzaki]

Ironically I think the Reapers are less evil than Cerberus. The reapers at least have the excuse of being machines for lacking empathy. They don't know fear, anger, despair. Cerberus operatives on the other hand should understand this. Cerberus are supposed to be humane and for humanity yet they allow **** like Akuze and Teltin to happen. They claim to want the advancement of humans but for the most part their victims are those they claim to want to advance.

Evil isn't doing horrible things. Its doing those things while knowing full well the consequences of what you're doing but not caring about the harm it does to others as long as you end up ahead.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:04 .