15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Someone wanted a screenshot with the breathing mask and the visor. I haven't made this one, but nonetheless, here is one:



This is the time to reiterate: we want helmets in space. Give them very big visors so we can see the characters' faces, but don't let them run around in a vacuum in a breathing mask.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 01:45 .

[jtav]

She looks ridiculous. I want proper helmets.



My last post got me thinking: would you have liked it if Miranda had been presented more consistently as a dangerous woman? I think I would have. Someone Shepard befriended or romanced at his/her peril, but was also the nearest s/he had to an equal. I think I would have liked that.

[Markinator_123]

I'm loving the new armor on Miranda. I don't know if it is just me but she seems to be kicking "more you know what" on my game. By the way Iedra2, when I initially left the Miranda group it wasn't because I didn't like Miranda (I rejoined because I like Miranda that much) I was trying to determine which groups I ultimately wanted to stay in. As you have noticed I have left many other groups as well. As a personal preference I don't want to be in too many groups.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
My last post got me thinking: would you have liked it if Miranda had been presented more consistently as a dangerous woman? I think I would have. Someone Shepard befriended or romanced at his/her peril, but was also the nearest s/he had to an equal. I think I would have liked that.

Yes I would. She'd have been someone you couldn't be quite sure of right up to the end, in spite of all your efforts. That would also have tied in to the femme fatale image - which the armored version does somehow convey to my complete surprise. But I guess the demographic appreciating such characters was considered too small. With the current implementation at least we have a reasonably popular LI.

@Markinator:
Yes, she definitely comes across as more dangerous in the armor. And thanks for the info. I was just curious, btw.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 02:25 .

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Oh, agreed. There's an aura of danger to her now that the catsuits failed to convey. Romance her at your peril, Shepard, but how can you resist someone who is so much your equal?

white outfit = scientist, leader.
blue/black outfit = femme fatale.
armour = common soldier.

that's an improvement?

edit: and now it's onto helmets, where you'd have to modify the character model substantially to avoid hair clipping. hello ashley-style then... 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 09 février 2011 - 02:41 .

[jtav]

It's very much an improvement. She looked cheap before, like she was only a bit of T&A to reward the male gamer. You could practically hear the developers snickering at some points. She doesn't look like a piece of arm candy anymore. She looks like a highly deadly, extremely sexy operative. Which is what she's supposed to be. I hated the oversexualization. Now I don't have to feel embarrassed for liking her.

[snfonseka]

These are from my latest playthrough....

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

It's very much an improvement. She looked cheap before, like she was only a bit of T&A to reward the male gamer. You could practically hear the developers snickering at some points. She doesn't look like a piece of arm candy anymore. She looks like a highly deadly, extremely sexy operative. Which is what she's supposed to be. I hated the oversexualization. Now I don't have to feel embarrassed for liking her.

she never looked like a 'piece of arm candy'. sure some of the camera angles were dodgy (i can immediately think of two, in particular) and over-emphasised certain fanservice elements of her design but any embarassment outside of this is a reflection on you, not the character - miranda was always portrayed, right from the start, as a complex individual and stayed that was for the duration of the game, her default outfits merely emphasised aspects of her personality/traits.

[Barhador]

Jebel Krong wrote...

white outfit = scientist, leader.
blue/black outfit = femme fatale.
armour = common soldier.

that's an improvement?

Julius Caesar also wore armour in battles. That did not make him a 'common soldier'. Miranda with armour is not = common soldier, in fact it shows 'common sense' more than anything else.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...
Oh, agreed. There's an aura of danger to her now that the catsuits failed to convey. Romance her at your peril, Shepard, but how can you resist someone who is so much your equal?

white outfit = scientist, leader.

That might have worked, if the outfit hadn't looked so cheap. It looks good on the Redemption #4 cover, but the in-game version made her look the leader of some dingy biotech den on Omega rather than the billion-credit Lazarus project. That cheap style rather than the fanservice elements also destroyed any hint of the femme fatale image that may have come across. To say nothing of the lack of protection in combat - compare Liara's outfit in LotSB, which looked as if it could provide some protection and still looked light. The overblown fanservice destroyed any change of that, too. jtav is right - you could almost hear the developers snicker, as evidenced by Enyala's comments. Your association fails. 

blue/black outfit = femme fatale.

I like the loyalty outfit. But that one, too, looks like it's painted on the skin, giving it more than a little hint of a dominatrix outfit. As for the femme fatale - imagine Miranda infiltratiing Hock's party in that outfit. No chance of that, I'm afraid, she'd need a little more elegance than that. Lack of protection in combat also applies. I'm afraid that association fails as well.

armour = common soldier.

Does her armor make her look like your typical frontline grunt? Not to me. Also - and here's the crux of the matter - your outfits must not only fit you as a character, but even more should they fit the situations you're in. I'll grant you that ME1 erred on one side of the equation with its generic armor (which I most emphatically do *not* want back), but ME2 erred on the other side in disregarding the fact that you're almost always in combat. *Anyone* in combat will profit from armor, and *anyone*, regardless of who she is, will look silly walking into a combat zone with a skintight catsuit. Miranda going into combat armored, that tells me she's a practical woman who knows how to dress for the occasion.

So my association is:
*Her white outfit: cheap fanservice with no style.
*Her loyalty outfit: less cheap fanservice with some style, but completely inadequate for combat.
*Her armor: combines the practical with the stylish. Completely Miranda.

As I said, it might all have worked well if Bioware hadn't insisted on making Miranda Ms.Fanservice in this overly blatant way. But it didn't. The white outfit didn't even convey attractiveness well, because *cheap* fanservice isn't attractive. So it's left for the armor to convey her competence and practicality along with her attractiveness.

edit: and now it's onto helmets, where you'd have to modify the character model substantially to avoid hair clipping. hello ashley-style then..

The only thing they would've had to do was to give team members a different head model for the space walks and suchlike. That couldn't have been so hard. They did it for Shepard, after all.

@Barhador:
Agreed. 100%

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[naledgeborn]

Who's hating on the Miranda Commando Armor? I like to think of it as she's spending a lot of time with my Shep and it's starting to brush off. Armor Randa + Locust is..... I can't even think of a word to describe it's awesomeness. She still rocks the black cat suit when she's in "the Loft" though.

[Caihn]

naledgeborn wrote...

Who's hating on the Miranda Commando Armor?

Me. That's why I didn't buy the DLC.
It's the first ME2 content I don't buy.

[Barhador]

Yannkee wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Who's hating on the Miranda Commando Armor?

Me. That's why I didn't buy the DLC.
It's the first ME2 content I don't buy.

I'm curious to know why you didn't buy it?

[jtav]

The white outfit belongs in a vid sold in Shin Akiba. It's classless fanservice. The black is more elegant, but still close to fetish gear. The armor manages to be both sexy and give her an air of danger. It fits her femme fatale image better than the catsuits.



I'm a bit stuck on something for an fic: how do you think Miranda would react to a "you break her heart, I break your legs" speech from a Shepard who isn't joking.

[Caihn]

Barhador wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Who's hating on the Miranda Commando Armor?

Me. That's why I didn't buy the DLC.
It's the first ME2 content I don't buy.

I'm curious to know why you didn't buy it?

Because this DLC is completely pointless for me.
Maybe I could buy it for Grunt's armor, but the visors are so ridiculous I prefered save my money.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The white outfit belongs in a vid sold in Shin Akiba. It's classless fanservice. The black is more elegant, but still close to fetish gear. The armor manages to be both sexy and give her an air of danger. It fits her femme fatale image better than the catsuits.

QFT.

I'm a bit stuck on something for an fic: how do you think Miranda would react to a "you break her heart, I break your legs" speech from a Shepard who isn't joking.

She'll tell him to mind his own business. Coldly. Perhaps with cold anger. I can see her reacting the same way as if you side with Jack. Regardless of what he refers to (and I don't know) she won't take well to intimidation attempts.

[Caihn]

Jebel Krong wrote...

white outfit = scientist, leader.
blue/black outfit = femme fatale.
armour = common soldier.

This is my opinion as well.
And this crappy visor ... 

Modifié par Yannkee, 09 février 2011 - 06:28 .

[Ryzaki]

Eh I never saw Miranda to be a femme fatale so that outfit accenting personality traits she doesn't have means nothing to me.

The white outfit looks just plain cheap to me, completely unproffesional and it something that no one that wanted to be taken seriously would wear, the black is decent but it looks like she's going out. The armor appears to be very nice, professional but classy.

Frankly I hope in ME3 we can get her in some light armor without a visior (or helmet toggle why oh why did they get rid of it? T_T )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 février 2011 - 06:30 .

[Ieldra]

naledgeborn wrote...
Who's hating on the Miranda Commando Armor? I like to think of it as she's spending a lot of time with my Shep and it's starting to brush off. Armor Randa + Locust is..... I can't even think of a word to describe it's awesomeness. She still rocks the black cat suit when she's in "the Loft" though.

I don't know the reason of the hate. I haven't read so many posts of things like  "Miranda is awesome" on BSN within a few days for all the time ME2 has been out. She's badass, she's beautiful. What's there not to like?
I do get not appreciating the visor - it should be removable - but to say things like "this armor is stupid", well, I can only say it's exaclty *not* that. I wonder why those people don't appreciate that Miranda suddenly projects 100% more power and awesomeness.

Edit:
The visor is not "crappy". It's actually very well done, in its high-tech style as well in leaving Miranda's eyes visible in bright lighting. It's only disadvantage is that it hides her eyes in a character-defining moment. That's why it should be removable.

 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 06:36 .

[jtav]

I really love the armor in the dark. Very stylish.



Ieldra, you really think her reaction would be so strong? He's trying to be a protective older brother figure. "You're dating a very dear friend. I'm happy for you both. But don't you dare break her heart."

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Ieldra, you really think her reaction would be so strong? He's trying to be a protective older brother figure. "You're dating a very dear friend. I'm happy for you both. But don't you dare break her heart."

I didn't know the context. Also, this new version sounds completely different from what you posted earlier. That sounded like a threat. Miranda doesn't take well to threats I think. It would depend on how it's phrased and delivered. Miranda will understand protectiveness but react coolly to counter any intimidation attempt. If there's some respect between her and Shepard, she might even be conciliating. But in general she'd rather react coolly. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 06:41 .

[Jebel Krong]

Really. Well 50 pages ago you were singing a different hymn about the outfits. The default outfits define the 'operative' part of her character almost as much as anything else through the game. The soldier suit most definitely does not. Operatives operate more covertly, soldiers overtly - which ones wear full armour again? To disagree with this is to disagree with the very nature of the character you all profess to like so much, or at the very least fundamentally misunderstand her.

& the visors are still crap.

P.s. Caesar also wore a crown of leaves, very useful in battle i'm sure.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 09 février 2011 - 06:44 .

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
Really. Well 50 pages ago you were singing a different hymn about the outfits. The default outfits define the 'operative' part of her character almost as much as anything else through the game. The soldier suit most definitely does not. Operatives operate more covertly, soldiers overtly - which ones wear full armour again? To disagree with this is to disagree with the very nature of the character you all profess to like so much, or at the very least fundamentally misunderstand her.

Quote jtav from page 421: "I don't find the white outfit sexy. It's tasteless." Doesn't sound so different from what's said on this page, eh? I might have been a little more conciliatory because we had no alternative, but you won't find anything from me saying that it fits her character.

As for "character-defining", as I *repeatedly* said, it's not only who you are that should determine what you wear, but also what you're doing at the moment. "Dressing for the occasion" is the practical thing to do. If it's raining, you take an umbrella, and if it's raining bullets, you take something that can protect you. I don't know why you associate the white outfit with her "operative" aspect, I see nothing more but fanservice here, but even were I willing to concede that point, carrying that outfit into open combat, well, that screams "stupid operative". And Miranda is not that. 

Edit:
You might have noticed that I liked Miranda's very sexy black dress in Asakawa's picture.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 07:07 .

[Jebel Krong]

The easy answer to that, ieldra, is that you would have had a very different initial impression of Miranda had she been wearing combat armour rather than the white outfit - y'know the one that reinforced the 'ice queen yet smart and sexy scientist and lead operative' impression at the start rather than 'substitute ashley grunt' the armour would have presented. yell you would very probably not liked her and then bothered exploring her other, multitudinous, facets. your loss, eh?



I expected the dullards to be distracted by bright, shiny armoured that ill-fit the character but not her fans.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
The easy answer to that, ieldra, is that you would have had a very different initial impression of Miranda had she been wearing combat armour rather than the white outfit - y'know the one that reinforced the  impression at the start rather than 'substitute ashley grunt' the armour would have presented. yell you would very probably not liked her and then bothered exploring her other, multitudinous, facets. your loss, eh?

As I said - *repeatedly* - the white outfit doesn't reinforce the "ice queen yet smart and sexy scientist and lead operative" because of its beng cheap and the overblown fanservice elements. Miranda does convey that image by her dialogue alone, neither supported nor hampered by her outfit at that point. Except for the "sexy", which wasn't much present. And as I said - again, *repeatedly* without that point being acknowledged or defeated in any way - it's the occasion that should determine what people wear as much as what they are, if not more. So Miranda was OK at that point, because while we met her already in combat, she had a civilian role there and Lazarus station was a civilian location. She's not that again for the rest of the game.
You assume that because I want her to wear armor in combat, I'd want her to wear it everywhere. Of course not. That would be stupid and Miranda is not stupid.  YET AGAIN, it's the *situation that matters. Adaptability.

I don't know if I would've liked her armor had she worn it when I encountered her first, but I got over the fanservice to see her true colors, so I have a good indication it wouldn't have been any worse to get over any other outfit-induced misrepresentation. Not that I'm saying the armor would've been that
 

I expected the dullards to be distracted by bright, shiny armoured that ill-fit the character but not her fans.

You mean, as distracted as some other people are by the fanservice into being unable to admit that her white outfit as executed in the game doesn't fit her character? That kind of distraction? Distracted by the Sexy is a trope for a reason, I've never heard of "Distracted by the Awesome".
Tell me you don't like the armor and I say YMMV. But don't tell me it's character-derailing. I concede that the white outfit *might have* reinforced Miranda's character had it been executed better and with less fanservice, and if there had been an alternative to wear in combat. But as it was, no, it didn't work.

Dressing for the occasion. Common sense.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 février 2011 - 07:54 .