15168 réponses à ce sujet

[LuxDragon]

@Ieldra2:



Lawson is probably only a surname she plucked out of the air. Why should it matter whether it changes or not, even for a relationship? I honestly don't think she'll care.

[Ieldra]

It's the symbolism of the thing. Drawn out of thin air or not doesn't make a difference. I also think she wouldn't care about this idea of "sanctioned relationships", she'll only care about the opinion of those she cares about.

[jtav]

Just to be contrary, I could see her taking the name if she was dissatisfied with the rootless aspect of her existence and her surname was a symbol of that. If Lawson was her real name, she'd jump at the excuse. I think it far more likely she wouldn't marry, except to save on paperwork.

[LuxDragon]

I doubt Lawson is her real surname since she's so secretive about her father. Changing names would be one of the first things to do when running away and joining a secret organization. I was barely sure Miranda was her real name until what's-his-face called her Miri.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

If Shepard is a spacer, then it's most plausible that getting daddy Shep and Hannah Shep's approval is very important for both Shepard and Miri. It is for Katie and Miranda. As well as Russell and Miranda.

[Elyvern]

I'll play a contrarian along with jtav, but my point would be more along the line of it's likely she wouldn't care either way-- the same way Lawson is likely not her real name, she isn't going to put much symbolism in something as superficial as a surname. Granted, I see her as getting married to make legalities over certain things less ambiguous primarily, and then maybe the personal reason would come in after that. Likewise if she chooses to take on her spouse's name, it would be a personal gesture that doesn't involve her relinquishing any kind of control over her autonomy. It would be because she wants to remember something by or something along those lines.

[LuxDragon]

Autonomy is no problem, I'm sure. You don't enter a relationship with a woman like Miranda and not know that she could shoot a mech's head at 100 yards or crush it with her biotics.

[drwells123]

jtav wrote...

I didn't say she was her mother. I said the dynamoc reminded me more stromgly of parent/child than siblings.

Miranda certainly sounds like it in their chat conversation. Could be why Oriana calls her "Randa" rather than sarcastically saying "Yes, Mother", so as not to confuse the issue.

I can see the converation taking place between an older and younger sister, but don't those often mirror the parental relationship anyway? (Once they get past the adolescent stage of purely hating one another, that is.)

Interesting that some see the idea of Miranda being Oriana's mother as squicky. I don't see any squick unless they were to have a romantic relationship.

[jtav]

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

[drwells123]

jtav wrote...

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

That would fit right in with her father's narcissism as well.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

jtav wrote...

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

Could explain why he created Miranda with such a hot body, whereas Oriana doesn't have it.

[jtav]

Combine her blatant sexualization that doesn't fit the character and the discomfort she feels over her looks (she mentions them as something her father gave her--i.e. not really her) with the contempt and clinical manner in which she treats her iPartners prospects, you could make a case for sexual abuse if you wanted. Her sexuality doesn't come off as something she revels in in healthy way but something she uses as a weapon because it's expected. Most of the time, I can put it off to one side, but some days I think Miranda is irreparably scarred.

Again, it's not canon. Just that you can go that route without contradicting canon and the disparate parts of her character make me uneasy when I try to reconcile them. Most days I don't try.

Modifié par jtav, 18 février 2011 - 03:03 .

[LuxDragon]

I think you're reading way too much into it jtav. Far more than most.

[drwells123]

jtav wrote...

Combine her blatant sexualization and the discomfort she feels over her looks (she mentions them as something her father gave her--i.e. not really her) with the contempt and clinical manner in which she treats her iPartners prospects, you could make a case for sexual abuse if you wanted. Her sexuality doesn't come off as something she revels in in healthy way but something she uses as a weapon because it's expected. Most of the time, I can put it off to one side, but some days I think Miranda is irreparably scarred.

Although her first iPartner prospect sounds like a chump, and the next two should be sent back to grade school. The last one sounds a lot like her - i.e. no nonsense, right to the point.

But yes, even if nothing squicky went on, I can just imagine her father's "bird and the bees" talk. "Okay, Miranda. By now you've no doubt noticed that boys are very easily manipulated..."

[themark443]

Well after a few weeks of debating with myself, I finally started to put my fic up. It'll eventually turn into an OC/Miranda pairing (still have a long way to go for that). Right now I'm just starting from the first game and working my way towards ME2 (still have a ton of editing to do in that).

It's called Mass Effect: Friend of a Hero if anyone's interested.

[MACharlie1]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

jtav wrote...

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

Could explain why he created Miranda with such a hot body, whereas Oriana doesn't have it.

I always assumed Oriana didn't have such a hot body because she wasn't in an extremely tight jump suit and she wasn't engaging in the same excercise, diet, etc. that Miranda was engaging in to keep up with her style as a Cerberus operative. Remember that Miranda was probably pushed to have this fantastic athletic porn stars body through her childhood and into her teens. Genes in this instance don't really mean anything unless one is taking advantage of them. 

[jtav]

drwells123 wrote...

Although her first iPartner prospect sounds like a chump, and the next two should be sent back to grade school. The last one sounds a lot like her - i.e. no nonsense, right to the point.

But yes, even if nothing squicky went on, I can just imagine her father's "bird and the bees" talk. "Okay, Miranda. By now you've no doubt noticed that boys are very easily manipulated..."

Yeah, you don't really need to go to Chinatown terriotory. There's just something a bit "off about Miranda's attitude toward sex when I try to make sense of all the canon info. I don't have the ability to discount things as parody like Ieldra does. Most of the time I can sort of ignore it, but my conception of Miranda is usually that of a woman who embodies the Broken Ace trope--brilliant, self-loathing and tragic--to a greater or lesser degree. The sex angle only enters the picture rareky, so take my speculation in that arena with a grain of salt.

Modifié par jtav, 18 février 2011 - 03:28 .

[LuxDragon]

themark443 wrote...

Well after a few weeks of debating with myself, I finally started to put my fic up. It'll eventually turn into an OC/Miranda pairing (still have a long way to go for that). Right now I'm just starting from the first game and working my way towards ME2 (still have a ton of editing to do in that).
It's called Mass Effect: Friend of a Hero if anyone's interested.

Any links or do we search the internet for it?

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Hey boys and girls, my Miri/Tali friendship-******-Valentine's Day-******-humor fic is up! Please review!

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

As we've talked extensively over at the CDG forum, there needn't even be physical contact involved. The physical act of incest in this case with the expressive purpose of creating offspring is really an extremely clunky and unrealiable mechanism. Naturally, we cannot preclude the fact that her father may also be sick in the mind to want the physical act to take place as a form of psychological dominance and such, but that would really be going into the territory of cheap sensationalism.

The biggest taboo of incest as well is the danger of producing genetically defective offspring. Picturing the scenario of in-vitro fertilisation and a womb tank, that danger is neatly alleviated. Bottomline is given the special nature in which Miranda as well as her sisters were created, there definitely exist scenarios that may bring into question notions of traditional kinship, even if we set aside the topic of incest.  

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

jtav wrote...

What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

As we've talked extensively over at the CDG forum, there needn't even be physical contact involved. The physical act of incest in this case with the expressive purpose of creating offspring is really an extremely clunky and unrealiable mechanism. Naturally, we cannot preclude the fact that her father may also be sick in the mind to want the physical act to take place as a form of psychological dominance and such, but that would really be going into the territory of cheap sensationalism.

The biggest taboo of incest as well is the danger of producing genetically defective offspring. Picturing the scenario of in-vitro fertilisation and a womb tank, that danger is neatly alleviated. Bottomline is given the special nature in which Miranda as well as her sisters were created, there definitely exist scenarios that may bring into question notions of traditional kinship, even if we set aside the topic of incest.  

 ok i think some people have been thinking FAR too many dirty thoughts on this whole "incest" subject....

seriously though, i would posit it is far more likely that "mr megalomania" wanted a dynasty of perfected almost-clones, probably of both sexes - miranda would have been perhaps the first proper success, or almost-success.

[drwells123]

Jebel Krong wrote...

 ok i think some people have been thinking FAR too many dirty thoughts on this whole "incest" subject....

seriously though, i would posit it is far more likely that "mr megalomania" wanted a dynasty of perfected almost-clones, probably of both sexes - miranda would have been perhaps the first proper success, or almost-success.

Hm, it's certainly not a pleasant subject but I don't get the feeling anyone here is being prurient.

This brings up something I haven't thought of before, though - why did he want a daughter? Doesn't Miranda mention that all her discarded siblings were daughters also? Even after Miranda left, he still didn't give up and try a son. And misogyny seems like it'd fit in pretty well with his other traits - given the way he created Miranda, he apparently didn't find any women who were worthy to dilute his precious genes with.

Maybe BW merely wanted to add a twist to the old story of the son not wanting to follow in his megalomaniacal father's footsteps, but they could also have given Miranda a mother instead of a father (or maybe they thought they'd done that with Liara and Benezia).

Edit: BTW, I like that badspot.us rendition of Miranda in your banner

Modifié par drwells123, 18 février 2011 - 11:13 .

[themark443]

LuxDragon wrote...

themark443 wrote...

Well after a few weeks of debating with myself, I finally started to put my fic up. It'll eventually turn into an OC/Miranda pairing (still have a long way to go for that). Right now I'm just starting from the first game and working my way towards ME2 (still have a ton of editing to do in that).
It's called Mass Effect: Friend of a Hero if anyone's interested.

Any links or do we search the internet for it?

Oops sorry. Here ya go:
http://www.fanfictio...riend_of_a_Hero
Enjoy!

[Jebel Krong]

drwells123 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

 ok i think some people have been thinking FAR too many dirty thoughts on this whole "incest" subject....

seriously though, i would posit it is far more likely that "mr megalomania" wanted a dynasty of perfected almost-clones, probably of both sexes - miranda would have been perhaps the first proper success, or almost-success.

Hm, it's certainly not a pleasant subject but I don't get the feeling anyone here is being prurient.

This brings up something I haven't thought of before, though - why did he want a daughter? Doesn't Miranda mention that all her discarded siblings were daughters also? Even after Miranda left, he still didn't give up and try a son. And misogyny seems like it'd fit in pretty well with his other traits - given the way he created Miranda, he apparently didn't find any women who were worthy to dilute his precious genes with.

Maybe BW merely wanted to add a twist to the old story of the son not wanting to follow in his megalomaniacal father's footsteps, but they could also have given Miranda a mother instead of a father (or maybe they thought they'd done that with Liara and Benezia).

Edit: BTW, I like that badspot.us rendition of Miranda in your banner

it's easier to control the development of matching chromosonal pairs (XX).

edit: oh, and thanks! yeah i liked the animation-style rendition and the colouring. patryk garrett did the other half web-site here

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 18 février 2011 - 12:19 .

[GodWood]

jtav wrote...
What got me was Miranda's misty eyed look when watching Oriana followed by "She's got a family. A life. I'll just complicate that for her." I associate that with drama's about estranged parents reuniting with their children. I think I squicked people because of the implication Oriana was the product of incest. I've speculated Miranda ran away because her father intended her for an incestuous relationship, but I don't think he carried out his plans.

That is both fascinating and disturbing.
Personally, I'd support such a twist for the sake of drama and to add quite a dark new layer to the character but honestly I don't think Bioware would have the guts to take her character in that direction.
Then again, Jack is a victim of abduction, torture and gang-rape so hey, who knows.