15168 réponses à ce sujet

[LuxDragon]

It was a bit mean, I agree.

[Xilizhra]

In any case, Miranda does have a caregivery side with Oriana; they're just separated by Miranda's duty.

[drwells123]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Xilizrha, would you please desist talking about things you have no understanding of (not just here, btw). I understand that you like the story, and that's OK, but the Miranda we see there is not the one ME2 shows us, within or without the romance. Miranda Lawson is nothing like that, she doesn't show a single facet of being a caregiver in the whole of the game, or of her backstory.

And if you're here to provoke, as I suspect, take it elsewhere.

So... someone posts a fanfiction chapter in this thread. I compliment the author without making any references to whether her story is better than anyone else's, only that I liked it. And you attack me for it?

Honestly? I'm baffled.

First, Xilizrha, thank you for the compliment, it's much appreciated as always. Likewise, thank you to everyone who posted feedback, positive or negative, as both are helpful.

My posting updates to my story in this thread is causing problems, so I'll desist in future. People know the schedule by now anyway.

I've never seen Xilizrha post anything here or elsewhere with the intent to provoke anyone. People who don't agree with my portrayal of Miranda have stated their reasons in a clear and nonprovoking manner, which I appreciate, and I can understand where they're coming from. I would only ask that everyone (1) take it in the spirit in which it's offered and (2) do the same for the opinions of others.

This is, after all, a LOVE thread

[drwells123]

jtav wrote...

That depends on the version of TIM we're dealing with. Redemption/ME2 TIM would simply withdraw his protection. Retribution TIM is petty enough to make Oriana's life a living hell. I wouldn't be surprised if we re-meet Miranda in the capacity of protecting her sister.

I really disliked the portrayal of TIM in Retribution. Petty, vindictive, cruel (and even smirkingly amused by these traits in himself), and something of a hypocrite and coward (he decides he doesn't want to die not because it isn't the best contribution he can make to his cause, but because he's simply willing to martyr other people but not himself). Personally, I just can't see it. For someone who presumably rose to his position on merit (for want of a better term) rather than open political pandering or inheritance (like your typical tyrant), and who is willing to do the awful things he does, he ought to have a consistent philosophy that underlies it all, rather than merely acting on his base urges. Like, say, Don Corleone, for want of a better model.

As DWH1982 points out, Miranda might well have a cache of dirt of Cerberus buried somewhere that will see the light of day if she doesn't check in every so often. Hell, even Martin Sheen admits he wouldn't trust TIM as far as he could throw him

[Boilrig]

For some reason I don't think TIM would take the risk, as he might end up facing Shepard, and look how the Shadow Broker turned out. Any threat towards Oriana is pointless, he will most likely pull her Cerberus protection than deal with Shepard again.

[LuxDragon]

He won't, I think. Even Retribution TIM knew he made a mistake with Grayson by making things personal.

He'll yank the Cerberus protection and just cut ties.

[TheMarshal]

drwells123 wrote...

I really disliked the portrayal of TIM in Retribution. Petty, vindictive, cruel (and even smirkingly amused by these traits in himself), and something of a hypocrite and coward (he decides he doesn't want to die not because it isn't the best contribution he can make to his cause, but because he's simply willing to martyr other people but not himself). Personally, I just can't see it. For someone who presumably rose to his position on merit (for want of a better term) rather than open political pandering or inheritance (like your typical tyrant), and who is willing to do the awful things he does, he ought to have a consistent philosophy that underlies it all, rather than merely acting on his base urges. Like, say, Don Corleone, for want of a better model.

That's disappointing to hear.  Much as I don't like TIM, I still respect his purpose.  Retribution making him out to be a vindictive, cruel, and ultimately cowardly person seems to destroy everything that made him who he was...

[Xilizhra]

Well, he's supposed to contain humanity's worst traits as well as the best. That doesn't make for a very good person, in balance.

[Ty2011]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, he's supposed to contain humanity's worst traits as well as the best. That doesn't make for a very good person, in balance.

I agree with this. I feel like TIM often does the right things but for the wrong reasons. There's something very unsetlling about that. 

[Ieldra]

Ty2011 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, he's supposed to contain humanity's worst traits as well as the best. That doesn't make for a very good person, in balance.

I agree with this. I feel like TIM often does the right things but for the wrong reasons. There's something very unsetlling about that.

Or the wrong things for the right reasons, if you consider his various research projects... I agree with his purpose of human advancement, though I'd take it in a different direction. But mis methods are unnecessarily brutal.

[Elyvern]

TheMarshal wrote...

drwells123 wrote...

I really disliked the portrayal of TIM in Retribution. Petty, vindictive, cruel (and even smirkingly amused by these traits in himself), and something of a hypocrite and coward (he decides he doesn't want to die not because it isn't the best contribution he can make to his cause, but because he's simply willing to martyr other people but not himself). Personally, I just can't see it. For someone who presumably rose to his position on merit (for want of a better term) rather than open political pandering or inheritance (like your typical tyrant), and who is willing to do the awful things he does, he ought to have a consistent philosophy that underlies it all, rather than merely acting on his base urges. Like, say, Don Corleone, for want of a better model.

That's disappointing to hear.  Much as I don't like TIM, I still respect his purpose.  Retribution making him out to be a vindictive, cruel, and ultimately cowardly person seems to destroy everything that made him who he was...

Well, to be fair, everyone in that novel is an idiot. I walked away with a strong dislike of virtually every character including Anderson, who was singularly portrayed as being so idiotic, I regretted making him a counsellor in my games. Given that the entire novel is so dismal, all I can claim is it's poor writing and erratic characterisation. Which of course doesn't give any gaurantees that they'd get TIM or Anderson or anyone else right in ME3, unfortunately.

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 mars 2011 - 07:12 .

[Ieldra]

@drwells123:
Please continue your updates. While I emphatically do not agree with your portrayal of Miranda, my reply to Xilizrha was not aimed at your story and it was not my intention to hound you out of this thread.

My post was the result of an ongoing problem I have with many of Xilizhra's posts, mostly not even in this thread. I maintain what I said to her, but it was misapplied to that particular post. I'm sorry that you got the fallout.

[drwells123]

Elyvern wrote...

Well, to be fair, everyone in that novel is an idiot. I walked away with a strong dislike of virtually every character including Anderson, who was singularly portrayed as being so idiotic, I regretted making him a counsellor in my games. Given that the entire novel is so dismal, all I can claim is it's poor writing and erratic characterisation. Which of course doesn't give any gaurantees that they'd get TIM or Anderson or anyone else right in ME3, unfortunately.

I had the impression the author was aiming (or was asked to aim) for a younger audience. In particular, he seemed worried about losing the reader if he didn't keep serving up the gunfire and explosions in rapid-fire progression. That's rather at odds with, say, the conversation with Vigil on Ilos, presumably conceived by the same author, which is at least fifteen minutes of pure exposition and yet very interesting and moving.

[drwells123]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@drwells123:
Please continue your updates. While I emphatically do not agree with your portrayal of Miranda, my reply to Xilizrha was not aimed at your story and it was not my intention to hound you out of this thread.

My post was the result of an ongoing problem I have with many of Xilizhra's posts, mostly not even in this thread. I maintain what I said to her, but it was misapplied to that particular post. I'm sorry that you got the fallout.

Thank you and no hard feelings. I'm ignorant of the history, but I sincerely hope you and Xilizrha are able to iron things out at some point. (I don't quite have Shepard's gift for conflict resolution )

[Elyvern]

I think you're being too kind. Ascension and Revelation were far better books written by the same author, with more than their fair share of explosions and twists. They didn't blatantly disregard important lynchpins like character continuity at the expense of flashbang effects. Retribution was literally several notches down in quality to the point I had to double check to see if it was the same author.

[Jebel Krong]

Elyvern wrote...

I think you're being too kind. Ascension and Revelation were far better books written by the same author, with more than their fair share of explosions and twists. They didn't blatantly disregard important lynchpins like character continuity at the expense of flashbang effects. Retribution was literally several notches down in quality to the point I had to double check to see if it was the same author.

i think you're being too kind about the first 2 books - all 3 have been awful: filled with annoying, idiotic, trite and cliche characters who you just want to punch for being so stubborn/blind most of the time.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

I think you're being too kind. Ascension and Revelation were far better books written by the same author, with more than their fair share of explosions and twists. They didn't blatantly disregard important lynchpins like character continuity at the expense of flashbang effects. Retribution was literally several notches down in quality to the point I had to double check to see if it was the same author.

i think you're being too kind about the first 2 books - all 3 have been awful: filled with annoying, idiotic, trite and cliche characters who you just want to punch for being so stubborn/blind most of the time.

100% agreement. I've read them mostly because of the additional background information, as stories they could have been OK if not for the absolutely dreadful characterizations.

"You are in a Cliché Storm. Do not worry. The pain will soon pass." (tvtropes.org).

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

I think you're being too kind. Ascension and Revelation were far better books written by the same author, with more than their fair share of explosions and twists. They didn't blatantly disregard important lynchpins like character continuity at the expense of flashbang effects. Retribution was literally several notches down in quality to the point I had to double check to see if it was the same author.

i think you're being too kind about the first 2 books - all 3 have been awful: filled with annoying, idiotic, trite and cliche characters who you just want to punch for being so stubborn/blind most of the time.

100% agreement. I've read them mostly because of the additional background information, as stories they could have been OK if not for the absolutely dreadful characterizations.

"You are in a Cliché Storm. Do not worry. The pain will soon pass." (tvtropes.org).

Let me clarify that I don't expect game/movie novel tie-ins to be on the same standard as original novels. And not a single tie-in novel has proven my opinion wrong all these years. Ascension/Revelation were decent as tie-in novels, Retribution was dismal even in that respect. Strictly speaking, the first two would be considered mediocre novels on their own, but for Retribution, I'd say it doesn't even deserved to be published.

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 mars 2011 - 03:22 .

[Ieldra]

Quite so. I've never read a good game/movie tie-in novel, apart from one or two SW novels written by already well-known authors.

I guess we can count ourselves fortunate that Miranda doesn't feature in any of the books. I cringe when imagining what Karpyshyn would've done to her.

[drwells123]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Quite so. I've never read a good game/movie tie-in novel, apart from one or two SW novels written by already well-known authors.

Zahn and Brian Daley?

Someone needs to get Zahn to work on some ME novels. Definitely his kind of universe.

Modifié par drwells123, 11 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[Jebel Krong]

yeah tomothy zahn's original thrawn trilogy was well-done, but star wars isn't exactly proper science-fiction - not that that particularly matters for the sake of quality.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Jebel Krong]

obviously an alt and therefore, not in-continuity, but an interesting experiment:

cr: blackstrogg

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 mars 2011 - 11:45 .

[SgtPotato]

Jebel Krong wrote...

obviously an alt and therefore, not in-continuity, but an interesting experiment:

cr: blackstrogg

"Where's Sarah Connor?"

[Ieldra]

(Udina voice): This is an outrage!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Prudii Aden]

(Turian councillor) An alternate Miranda? We have dismissed that claim.:innocent: