15168 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMarshal]

jtav wrote...

I can't speak for PA, but for me, the squad is the merit. I'm a story and character gamer who requires her gameplay mostly to not be intrusive. The Reaper plot doesn't interest me. I'm feeling increasingly hamstrung in my ability to RP thanks to a lack of options on things I considered cornerstones of my character in ME1. The NPCs are the draw at this point.

This is me, pretty much.  I play the game for the squad and how they fit together.  The story itself is alright, but characters are what makes a game interesting.

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Arrival spoilers have drastically reduced my rage about Shepard. Drastically.

Funny - it has massively increased my own... it's ok - no LoSB though - until the "hackett" conversation at the end: *minor spoiler* since when does shep answer to anyone in the alliance? oh yes not since becoming a spectre at the beginning of ME1, let alone any subsequent choices - which don't matter because no shep can canonically re-join the alliance. They have zero authority to do diddly regardless of what they want. total BS. *end spoiler*

Other than that it was ok, if predictable, some nice environments (rain!) Although the worst was at the beginning. Just lacked the plot, writing, coherence and excitement of LoSB for me.

[Jebel Krong]

PA I can see where you are coming from, but you're judging the whole thing by one (important) component, and I do think there are some pretty unrealistic expectations on this forum, even discounting technological limitations from the mix. Surely though, ME2 proves ME3 is worth the support, at least until your scepticism is proved one way or the other.

[jtav]

JK, I think what we're saying is that that one component is the only thing that matters to some of us. Not Miranda specifically for me, or even whether the team comes back. It's the characters that matter and only the characters. If I as a player can't fall in love with at least one of my team members, then I'm not going to enjoy it. DA2 is as buggy as hell and iffy on the gameplay, but the characters make me love it more than I love ME2.

[Vertigo_1]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

Arrival spoilers have drastically reduced my rage about Shepard. Drastically.

Funny
- it has massively increased my own... it's ok - no LoSB though - until
the "hackett" conversation at the end: *minor spoiler* since when does
shep answer to anyone in the alliance? oh yes not since becoming a
spectre at the beginning of ME1, let alone any subsequent choices -
which don't matter because no shep can canonically re-join the alliance.
They have zero authority to do diddly regardless of what they want.
total BS. *end spoiler*

Other than that it was ok, if
predictable, some nice environments (rain!) Although the worst was at
the beginning. Just lacked the plot, writing, coherence and excitement
of LoSB for me.

I pretty much agree with this.  Story wasn't that great but I somewhat expected it from the lackluster promotion.  The Alliance part is I think something that will play a factor in ME3.  Especially with the end to that DLC.  Hell it may start out like what Hackett said.  Oh and the end talk reminded me of Elyvern's fan fiction!
If it means anything I thought the music was great.








Spoiler for Arrival:


Miranda is shown (with others) in a video in Arrival if you let the timer run out.

End Spoiler

Modifié par g54, 30 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

JK, I think what we're saying is that that one component is the only thing that matters to some of us. Not Miranda specifically for me, or even whether the team comes back. It's the characters that matter and only the characters. If I as a player can't fall in love with at least one of my team members, then I'm not going to enjoy it. DA2 is as buggy as hell and iffy on the gameplay, but the characters make me love it more than I love ME2.

yeah i can see that - particularly with the way ME2 was structured, however - as i previously said - they may come up with some new even-more loveable characters for ME3. if you don't give it a chance, or write-it-off now because of your own preconceived notions and demands, it'll never live up to expectations, whatever the merits. believe me it matters a lot to me if and how miranda comes back, the same with mordin, legion etc... however i'm not going to fall into the pre-ME2 trap of demanding X be in it, in a particular role, because: a. BW won't listen anyway - the game's plot/structure is done no matter what anyone wants; and b. it reduces the potential choices/directions for the closing segment of the franchise. 

[Jebel Krong]

g54 wrote...
I pretty much agree with this.  Story wasn't that great but I somewhat expected it from the lackluster promotion.  The Alliance part is I think something that will play a factor in ME3.  Especially with the end to that DLC.  Hell it may start out like what Hackett said.  Oh and the end talk reminded me of Elyvern's fan fiction!
If it means anything I thought the music was great.
Spoiler for Arrival:

Miranda is shown (with others) in a video in Arrival if you let the timer run out.

End Spoiler

although dealing with the alliance could be interesting (especially if ME3's structure is balancing rescuing earth with uniting the galaxy on a timer-type thing: leave it longer and more people will die etc.); i hate manadatory - you are forced into dealing with this only because of the writers thought it was a cool story/plot to explore - scenarios that ignore your previous game choices - if i'm a spectre (and i always am) then no-way in hell could the alliance do/say bugger all...

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Um...I haven't gotten Arrival yet, so what video are you guys talking about? And is it really a fixed choice of killing a crapload of batarians without any alternative at the end?

[Prudii Aden]

Spoiler

I'm kinda meh over Arrival. When I got to the 'big decision' there was half an hour left on the clock, at which point (even though this particular Shep is rather paragon) I went "half an hour to evacuate that many? Yeah right. Couple of days, maybe, but half an hour? No way. Joker, get me outta here!"

Modifié par Prudii Aden, 30 mars 2011 - 09:38 .

[Jebel Krong]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Um...I haven't gotten Arrival yet, so what video are you guys talking about? And is it really a fixed choice of killing a crapload of batarians without any alternative at the end?

it's not really like that, well it is, but you'll have to play it and see how that makes sense... 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 30 mars 2011 - 09:50 .

[Ieldra]

Since Elyvern has technical difficulties with posting at the moment, I'm announcing the latest update for her fanfic Degrees of Inheritance.

Don't be confused by the story suddenly featuring 13 chapters, the old chapters were broken up for easier reading.

The new chapter (several parts) starts here: Degrees of Inheritance, Chapter 4.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 mars 2011 - 04:16 .

[Gerza71]

I give this for all the Miranda supporters out there including myself.

The pic is bit big that is why I link it. 

Modifié par Gerza71, 30 mars 2011 - 09:53 .

[Kats_RK]

www.youtube.com/watch

Theres the video of The Arrival when the Timer runs out.The video makes you go 

[jtav]

Dragon Age II is taking up a lot of my energy, but it got me thinking. One of the relative strengths of DA in comparison to ME is the greater amount of resources spent on developing the companions. Miranda is probably the most developed squad member, but she's still sketchy and inconsistent. So, if the squad members magically had the resources devoted to them that the DAO party did, and you were Miranda's writer, what would you do with her?

I would do one of two things. Eliminate the worst of the fanservice. Miranda is much closer to her Lazarus Station personality for the first half of the game. She's also explicitly person in charge of putting you down if you go off the reservation. She considers Shepard rash and unpredictable, if highly skilled. She's much more upset about the prospect of having to ask for your help to rescue Oriana. Her faith in Cerberus is a much bigger part of her character. Most of her early conversations with deal with her defending them for "making tough choices that the rest of humanity is afraid to make." Throughout the game, her faith in Cerberus is steadily eroded as she sees more atrocities. You can either encourage this or not. She gradually opens up to you after the rescue of Oriana. At the CB, she is very evasive about what she thinks about the base. TIM tells her point-blank to kill you if you try to destroy the base. Whether she actually attempts to carry this out depends on loyalty.

Option two: make the fanservice part of her character. Her body is only another thing her father gave her, so she has no qualms about using it to get what she wants. That ass shot? She's trying to manipulate Shepard into doing something for her. She was created as a tool, so she may as well find purpose in it.  It's hinted that she doesn't really believe in Cerberus as much as she's grateful to have a purpose. Her character arc is about her learning to value herself for her own sake and finding a cause she does believe in. I'd probably cut the romance in this version for fear of coming off as exploitative.

Modifié par jtav, 31 mars 2011 - 12:49 .

[TheMarshal]

If I had the amount of resources devoted to character development as the DAO team and I was the head writer for Miranda, I'd step back and let jtav write her.

In all seriousness, those ideas are spot on, and I agree that trying to force a romance in ME2 with that deeper vision of the character would be difficult. Building on a relationship, hinting at something to come in the future, but not quite getting the whole thing in ME2 would probably be sufficient.

[Ieldra]

Nono, I wouldn't let jtav write her. She'd put too much self-loathing into Miranda, and she doesn't approve of Miranda's genetic engineering. I'd hire Elyvern to write her.

As for what exactly to change, I'm still thinking about that. I'd probably infuse more of the genetic engineering angle into her story. Make her accept herself and her gifts as more than her father's (or anyone's) tool as the primary step in character development rather than opening up emotionally, which would be a optional benefit restricted to those who romance her.

And I would re-write her Collector base dialogue and make it more extensive.

[jtav]

You wound me, Ieldra:P

It's still a germ of an idea at this point, but I've been toying with an idea. Miranda has the power to lean on her contacts and deflect suspicion away from Shepard much more effectively than Hackett due to her contacts and the fact that Cerberus has a lot of dirt on various officials. Shepard needs never go to trial. But she dares not actually use this leverage because there must be a scapegoat to avoid a war that would divert resources from the Reaper effort.  She has to watch as his name is dragged through the mud and he's jailed, knowing that she could stop it.

[TheMarshal]

It would be interesting to see a DAO-style "hardening" of Miranda, where through dialogue choices she either accepts that her gifts don't have to define her and that she is greater than the 'sum of her parts', or she allows herself to remain a 'tool' to be used by whoever, with implications... undefined, 'cause I can't think of any right now.

[jeweledleah]

sneaking in for a moment. sometimes, when I'm not getting enraged at the hate for my favorite characters, I remember that they are not the only characters I enjoy and draw some fan art. Miri was my latest victi...I mean subject

hope you like it


/sneaks out again

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
You wound me, Ieldra:P

I don't doubt your writing ability, jtav, but you know where we disagree and how much I prefer Elyvern's version of Miranda to your preferred versions (of course, my advance knowledge of where Elyvern's fic will go does help).

It's still a germ of an idea at this point, but I've been toying with an idea. Miranda has the power to lean on her contacts and deflect suspicion away from Shepard much more effectively than Hackett due to her contacts and the fact that Cerberus has a lot of dirt on various officials. Shepard needs never go to trial. But she dares not actually use this leverage because there must be a scapegoat to avoid a war that would divert resources from the Reaper effort.  She has to watch as his name is dragged through the mud and he's jailed, knowing that she could stop it.

I've been thinking that reasoning would be enough to make even Renegade Shepard turn himself in. Though in my version, he wouldn't plan to stay imprisoned. I do like your idea, but I don't think it's enough to carry a complete story.

[Arijharn]

Heh, I thought that I would be late to the Elyvern-party in regards to her (his? apologies -- can't remember) fanfic but it seems that I'm only a day late, judging by Ieldra's post. Anyway, I'm caught somewhere in the middle in regards to it. One; I really like it... the sheer.. well, I would say balls but maybe that isn't appropriate (har, but I still managed to sideways it in, I'm so terribly clever) to do that cliffhanger in is delicious (come on, update it with next chapter I need to find out what happens next) and utterly unexpected, but at the same time, I'm disappointed because even though Commander Shephard is Elyvern's Cmdr. Shephard, I still feel this sense of 'ownership' to the character and I don't want to see him well, suffer too badly.

I don't know how to properly elucidate my thoughts really, but I think Elyvern has a wonderful ability to write... organically (I know that doesn't really make sense). I don't necessarily agree with events as Ely has written in the past (i.e., about the CB) but I still enjoy reading it to the point I've bookmarked the page.

This potentially can be a very short Miranda/Shephard story, and I think it's kinda, refreshing in that alarmist sort of way.

[jtav]

Something that may be of interest to some of you.

Scarred

Summary: A botched surgery left Shepard's scars permanent. And the only woman who
hasn't run screaming is the one who wanted to put a control chip in his
head. Lovely. A series of short stories.

And a vignette set much farther along in the same universe. Post-Arrival, in fact. Both are a little different from my usual fare and reflect my softening toward Shepard.

[Elyvern]

Arijharn wrote...

Heh, I thought that I would be late to the Elyvern-party in regards to her (his? apologies -- can't remember) fanfic but it seems that I'm only a day late, judging by Ieldra's post. Anyway, I'm caught somewhere in the middle in regards to it. One; I really like it... the sheer.. well, I would say balls but maybe that isn't appropriate (har, but I still managed to sideways it in, I'm so terribly clever) to do that cliffhanger in is delicious (come on, update it with next chapter I need to find out what happens next) and utterly unexpected, but at the same time, I'm disappointed because even though Commander Shephard is Elyvern's Cmdr. Shephard, I still feel this sense of 'ownership' to the character and I don't want to see him well, suffer too badly.

I don't know how to properly elucidate my thoughts really, but I think Elyvern has a wonderful ability to write... organically (I know that doesn't really make sense). I don't necessarily agree with events as Ely has written in the past (i.e., about the CB) but I still enjoy reading it to the point I've bookmarked the page.

This potentially can be a very short Miranda/Shephard story, and I think it's kinda, refreshing in that alarmist sort of way.

BSN has been on the fritz for me these past few days, keeps logging me out at every page, grr.

Glad you're caught up in it, Arijharn. Although I think I've established throughout that this isn't a hugs and puppies kind of story so that cliffhanger at the end of the latest chapter shouldn't come as a surprise. That said, I dislike tragedy for the sake of tragedy. Rather, my modus operandi is to hit the lows before I hit the highs. So you can safely tuck away your anxieties. I will bring the characters back home again...eventually.  

Modifié par Elyvern, 01 avril 2011 - 02:48 .

[Timon44]

Am I the only one who thinks that Miranda's face in ME2 doesn't look very good? And I don't mean that the graphics of the game aren't good enough, but that she doesn't look very healthy (which makes no sense whatsoever with her genes).


In the trailer she looks very good:
http://fc02.devianta..._by_Bebbe88.jpg

But in the game her face just looks...weird:
http://4.bp.blogspot...iranda-01-p.jpg

Modifié par Timon44, 01 avril 2011 - 09:27 .