15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

I do not think that Miranda will switch her loyalties and become an antagonist. Here's why:

(1) If you destroy the base, Miranda cuts her ties with Cerberus. That appears rather final. She has now allied herself with Shepard and against TIM, and any going-back will appear implausible.
(2) If you keep the base, Miranda will stay with Cerberus - but so will Shepard. Shepard and Cerberus will still be aligned to a compatible purpose. When TIM starts going after Shepard in ME3, there is no reason for Miranda to follow. Her character development may not have changed her allegiance, but she's not as blind any more.

Note that this doesn't consider a possible romance. It it appeared important to her to go against Shepard, then Miranda would be inclined to overrule any emotional attachment, though it would still have weight in her decision.

No, the only way how Miranda could be a (temporary) antagonist is if she's being blackmailed. Likely with Oriana. And then, of course, she hasn't really switched loyalties. Perhaps there exists some unfortunate combination of decisions that makes her really switch loyalties, but I don't think we have to worry about that overmuch here. If such a combination exists, it is unlikely that Miranda fans have it in their games.

As for how things will go for Miranda and Shepard, I put my hopes in Liara's statement in LotSB: "What are you fighting for. The future of humanity, as evidenced by the perfect Ms. Lawson?" I am indeed, among other things. And I finally believe we'll get there. Will there be enough interaction with Miranda? Well.....no, because such a thing as "enough interaction with Miranda" doesn't exist. I am convinced, however, that it will moderately satisfying at least.

@Jebel Krong:
I have yet to see those pictures of the Cerberus Commandos. Are they online anywhere?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 avril 2011 - 10:37 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Note that this doesn't consider a possible romance. It it appeared important to her to go against Shepard, then Miranda would be inclined to overrule any emotional attachment, though it would still have weight in her decision.

Allow me to disagree with you there. I think that, despite whatever lies or rumours TIM migth spread to turn Cerberus against a Shepard who gave them the base and how plausible they may appear to be, Miranda would not go against Shepard just like that, mostly because of what happened with Niket. Remember when she says: "Why didn't you call me, Niket? We've been through a lot, you could have at least let me explain."
So, unless his response is truly something ghastly, I think Miranda would have faith in Shepard (more so if romanced) and either abandon Cerberus or stark working for him as an inside agent.

edit: Thank you, Arijharn.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[Arijharn]

MisterJB, you might want to actually remove those pictures for the time being since you can get in quite a bit of trouble for putting them up.

[Jebel Krong]

or the scans are now at my blog, Ieldra (warning spoilers for anyone).

i don't think miranda will be an antagonist, i just think she would make a good one. even non-loyal she would have cut-and-run from cerberus after the suicide mission.

[wright1978]

I agree the only way i see Miranda going back to Cerberus is if TIM holds her sister in some manner. Though i think as soon as she quit Cerberus she would have moved to protect her from being used as blackmail fodder. Having her in my party for the majority of the game will make me happy. Temp member/NPC and i'll be very annoyed.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Note that this doesn't consider a possible romance. It it appeared important to her to go against Shepard, then Miranda would be inclined to overrule any emotional attachment, though it would still have weight in her decision.

Allow me to disagree with you there. I think that, despite whatever lies or rumours TIM migth spread to turn Cerberus against a Shepard who gave them the base and how plausible they may appear to be, Miranda would not go against Shepard just like that, mostly because of what happened with Niket. Remember when she says: "Why didn't you call me, Niket? We've been through a lot, you could have at least let me explain."
So, unless his response is truly something ghastly, I think Miranda would have faith in Shepard (more so if romanced) and either abandon Cerberus or stark working for him as an inside agent.

I agree to some extent. Loyalty and trust are important for Miranda, so she definitely wouldn't betray Shepard lightly. But she's also a professional operative who knows that emotions might get in the way of strategic thinking. I agree the reason would have to be a big one. 

Anyway, I don't think we'll such a scenario. The blackmail scenario would be interesting though.

@JK:
Thanks.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 avril 2011 - 12:17 .

[jtav]

I agree that the villain scenario is unlikely. I just said I would really like it. I "enjoy" that emotional knife in the gut. And she would make a really good villain. More realistically, I'm hoping she returns in her capacity as the leader of Lazarus. Because right now Shepard's death and resurrection is a bit of a waste. I'm hoping those implants did something to him that will affect the plot, and Miranda may be instrumental in figuring that out.

[Ieldra]

You are incomprehensible, jtav. I definitely wouldn't enjoy that from my favorite character.

As for Shepard, I rather worry what the contact to various Reaper artifacts might have done with him. I agree, though, that the repercussions of his death and coming back to life should be explored. Incomprehensible that Bioware would waste such dramatic potential.

[jtav]

Yes, because as it stands, they could have had him simply MIA for two years. I'm hoping they wouldn't simply use it as a reset button. Hoping. So that may be another plot hook for Miranda, along with whatever reason Cerberus is hunting Shepard. I don't believe she'll be a permanent team member, but the odds are looking very good for her to have a role similar to Liara in LOTSB. If it wasn't for her possible death, I'd take peg her for core, required squad member.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You are incomprehensible, jtav. I definitely wouldn't enjoy that from my favorite character.

As for Shepard, I rather worry what the contact to various Reaper artifacts might have done with him. I agree, though, that the repercussions of his death and coming back to life should be explored. Incomprehensible that Bioware would waste such dramatic potential.

i think they'll use that to "build an immunity" or somesuch - making shepard resistant to indoctrination. it would make sense. i don't buy TIM being under indoctrination, either. (mindyou shepard hasn't exactly been exposed to many reaper artifacts - the first game was about protheans).

[Rykoth]

I think she might be a permanent squad member for one fact.

She is your XO.

That said, I have a feeling we won't get her right away.

[Vertigo_1]

Rykoth wrote...

I think she might be a permanent squad member for one fact.

She is your XO.

That said, I have a feeling we won't get her right away.

I don't know if we can use the XO thing here anymore because according to the article:

Profile: The Normandy
Second only to Commander Shepard, the Normandy is one of the most recognizable elements of the Mass Effect series.  The iconic ship is still under Shepard's control in Mass Effect 3, but it has been reclaimed by the Alliance and is in the process of being taken apart, studied and rebeuilt.

Modifié par g54, 11 avril 2011 - 03:16 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I don't believe she'll be a permanent team member, but the odds are looking very good for her to have a role similar to Liara in LOTSB. If it wasn't for her possible death, I'd take peg her for core, required squad member.

That would limit the number of old team members who can be permanent team members in ME3 to one. What I'm hoping for is this:
(1) She's permanent after an initial period of not having her,
(2) After we get her, certain parts of the story will play out a little differently compared to games where she's dead.
(3) If she's dead, her role in those missions where she would've appeared is occupied by a nondescript NPC who can't be on the team, has less dialogue and is generally less helpful.

Since it appears that the main plot has several paths to the end I can imagine that there aren't any permanent team members who remain plot-integral through the whole game. Liara may be 100% plot-integral, but I don't think she'll be permanently on the team. Unless she steps down as the SB, and I can't see her doing that.

I'm also undecided about Ashley vs. Miranda. It appears plausible that we'll get only one of them, and I wouldn't mind that except for the lost potential for drama: LIs or not, they're so different they're almost antipodes, and the clashes between them would be epic.

The minimum requirements for my personal satisfaction are this:
(1) We'll get one extended mission with her.
(2) There is enough interaction with her at various points in the story. Don't know what exactly "enough" is, though
(3) She has a satisfying off-screen story
(4) She is with me at the end.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 avril 2011 - 03:31 .

[jtav]

And remember what happened to our last XO? I think Miranda will be temporary, and be involved with either the Cerberus plot, Lazarus side effects, or both.

And, Ieldra, that would logically mean Kaidan and Miranda are mutually exclusive. No! It's possible she's a full team member. I jut have a feeling she won't be. By definition, she can't be mandatory, though she could be optional the way Garrus and Wrex were in ME1.

Modifié par jtav, 11 avril 2011 - 03:38 .

[Jebel Krong]

tbh i think the permanent squadmates (i.e. the top tier/most important) will be the LIs and Liara. then you will have mission-specific ones (Mordin, Wrex, Legion etc) for one-to-several missions, depending on the squaddie. i don't think they could really handle it another way, because garrus, kaiden, thane, ashley, tali & miranda could all be dead, with only Liara guaranteed alive (but shadowbroker and i don't know how they'll balance that all of a sudden).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
tbh i think the permanent squadmates (i.e. the top tier/most important) will be the LIs and Liara.

All LIs? That would be nine (including Liara). Too many. Or do you mean any particular Shepard's preferred LI, selected at some time between the ME1 and the ME2 LI? That would make sense from a storytelling viewpoint, but I'm not sure it can be implemented in a game. If they manage to pull that off with no-one getting out of character, it would impress me to no end.

Also, any single LI can be dead except Liara. So the role can be plot-integral but the character cannot.

And not to forget: What will you do with single Shepards? I have one....

Bottom line: it isn't that easy.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 avril 2011 - 03:48 .

[aeetos21]

From what I've seen so far is that BW is making a very real attempt at being able to allow for the ability to swap out past squadmates with new squadmates should a past squadmate die. I mean that's the only way they really can make it work without pissing off the ENTIRE community. Tali may be the biggest character on the popularity scale but she isn't bigger in popularity than the rest of the character's combined. Add to that the fact that the need to have her in ME3 despite the good chance she may have died in many ME2 playthroughs and the system to "hot swap" past characters with new ones becomes enormous. In fact the more I look at it and the take in the consideration of BW's statements in regards to the role of ME2 squadmates in ME3 the more convinced I become.

Which is good news!

Once they have a system like that in place its easy to not only implement it for Tali but for all potential returning squadmates. I think I'm going to spend the rest of my day really quarterbacking different ideas on how BW could implement such a system and how it would work for the benefit of each ME2 squadmate's benefit.

[Vertigo_1]

ME3 Forums comming soon!

http://social.biowar...7031497#7034659

Could this mean more info from now till then?
Maybe the launch of the ME3 site?

Looks like April is the ME3 reveal month

Modifié par g54, 11 avril 2011 - 06:57 .

[cbutz]

What would be really neat is if Bioware lets us choose some of our squad mates. For example, you have the core ones that Bioware give you and then you choose which ones of the rest will tag along with you.

[Barhador]

I'm really hoping for the return of both Ashley and Miranda. They're so different (fire and ice) so it can only be interesting to have both on the team.

[Sylvianus]

I'm really hoping for the return of both Ashley and Miranda. They're so different (fire and ice) so it can only be interesting to have both on the team.

This. I agree. Two women that I love, two strong characters, two important women in mass effect for me.
If I didn't stay loyal to Ashley, I would chose Miranda. And not for its beauty, but her personality, her contribution to enriching the series.

Whatever others say, despite all the hatred, I never get tired of it. I hope fervently that she will be recruited.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 avril 2011 - 07:23 .

[jtav]

I'm hoping for Miranda, Kaidan, and Liara on the same squad. LOTSB was a little slice of heaven.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
tbh i think the permanent squadmates (i.e. the top tier/most important) will be the LIs and Liara.

All LIs? That would be nine (including Liara). Too many. Or do you mean any particular Shepard's preferred LI, selected at some time between the ME1 and the ME2 LI? That would make sense from a storytelling viewpoint, but I'm not sure it can be implemented in a game. If they manage to pull that off with no-one getting out of character, it would impress me to no end.

Also, any single LI can be dead except Liara. So the role can be plot-integral but the character cannot.

And not to forget: What will you do with single Shepards? I have one....

Bottom line: it isn't that easy.

well they'd have to accont for all anyway, but they could do either method. nine is manageable as it doesn't look like they're adding too many more, and me2 had plenty overall.

[Jebel Krong]

aeetos21 wrote...

From what I've seen so far is that BW is making a very real attempt at being able to allow for the ability to swap out past squadmates with new squadmates should a past squadmate die. I mean that's the only way they really can make it work without pissing off the ENTIRE community. Tali may be the biggest character on the popularity scale but she isn't bigger in popularity than the rest of the character's combined. Add to that the fact that the need to have her in ME3 despite the good chance she may have died in many ME2 playthroughs and the system to "hot swap" past characters with new ones becomes enormous. In fact the more I look at it and the take in the consideration of BW's statements in regards to the role of ME2 squadmates in ME3 the more convinced I become.

Which is good news!

Once they have a system like that in place its easy to not only implement it for Tali but for all potential returning squadmates. I think I'm going to spend the rest of my day really quarterbacking different ideas on how BW could implement such a system and how it would work for the benefit of each ME2 squadmate's benefit.

yes i'm sure they have something similar in mind, btw you do know that tali is only popular amongst a certain "forum" segment of the audience? i have never seen anything to suggest the majority of the audience prefers one or another character.

[Barhador]

Sylvianus wrote...
[...] I would chose Miranda. And not for its beauty, but her personality, her contribution to enriching the series.

That goes without saying in this thread.

It's funny how people are feeling guilty or start defending themselves when romancing Miranda. It's Bioware, not you, who picked Miranda to be the fan-service object of ME2 with the camera angles etc.