15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Thanks, JK.

Changed the OP. Set mehdic's fantastic Miranda fan art as the new thread title picture. Also, the old embedding method for videos doesn't appear to work anymore, *and* youtube has apparently removed the service of creating embedding code for you. So how can I do this now? I'd like Yannkees video to remain embedded in the OP.

there should still be an "embed" function in the "share links" or directly under the videos. i don't know about the forum software but the new coding they use should work (iframe), otherwise the code should start with < object > tags to work.

edit: ok so neither works - must be the forum software blocking it for bandwidth reasons, i expect.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 avril 2011 - 01:34 .

[Ieldra]

I think HTML code embedded in posts is no longer interpreted but treated as text. Perhaps there is a BBcode equivalent. If anyone finds out, please tell

So, sorry people, no more embedded videos in the OP for now.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2011 - 01:43 .

[Jebel Krong]

cr: StevenSanchez

[Ieldra]

ProffesionallNoob wrote...
Miri fans, i have a question: in the beginning of the game, when you first met Miranda, what inspired you to go and talk to her, and realise that she is an interesting character?

In my case, the answer is somewhat embarrasing: Since i am a guy, when i first saw her, i thought she was really beautiful (okay, actually i thought she was hot) and that inspired me to go and talk to her. I talked to her ALOT, and figured she is a very interesting character.

To echo jtav in this:
She intrigued me from the first moment as well. And then when she rebuffed my attempts to get personal (if course I couldn't resist trying that option, bad roleplaying as it was). I never got that "ice queen" vibe others complained about. She was professional and a little aloof......but that's what made her fascinating.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2011 - 01:50 .

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

@ProffessionallNoob
Welcome to the ever growing family of Mirimaniacs honey!

I was drawn to Miranda because she's HOT, and the fact that she shot the obvious traitor in the face without batting an eyelid had me at "You go girl!" Her ****yness on Minuteman brought out the b*tch in me, and I SO desperately wanted a 'catfight' option. Sadly, there wasn't one.

But I kept chatting to her, and was duly rewarded with the beautiful Miranda Lawson we all know and love so much. I don't see what's the fuss with the 'loss of ruthlessness'. It's probably still there, it's just that there aren't any opportunities to see that after shooting Wilson in the face. Miranda will still kill if need be, don't worry. She's a badass woman, which is another reason why I love her.

[jtav]

I'm currently playing a game where I'm planning to kill her (insurance against a worst case scenario). Which got me thinking: what kind of consequences would you "like" to see for her death?

[Prudii Aden]

How to embed videos using BB Code. If we're talking Yankee's videos it'd be something like this (hopefully):
wyUxqYElZe4

Edit: Or at least, that's the code, according to the BB Code website!

Modifié par Prudii Aden, 19 avril 2011 - 04:05 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm currently playing a game where I'm planning to kill her (insurance against a worst case scenario). Which got me thinking: what kind of consequences would you "like" to see for her death?

Easy. After having taken down TIM you won't have the chance to have anyone take over because there is no one left who knows the contacts. You'll be forced to dismantle the organization completely. Thus you won't get their resources and knowledge for the fight against the Reapers. Possibly you'll lose any knowledge they might have gained from the Collector base should you have saved it. All this will also make any human supremacy ending, should there be one and should you desire one, harder to achieve.

Not that this will ever happen in my games.....unless Bioware gets *really* out of line with her

Of course this scenario will fall to pieces should we not need to take down TIM for whichever mysterious reason.

@Prudii Aden:
Doesn't work. Apparently the BSN implementation of BBCode doesn't interpret the [youtube] tag. It just appears as text in the post.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2011 - 04:36 .

[Vertigo_1]

Video Embedding was disabled a while ago according to Jeff Roussell.

"This means no more embedding videos."

Sorry

Modifié par g54, 19 avril 2011 - 04:38 .

[jtav]

Thanks for not killing me Ieldra. I've been turned into a gibbering, paranoid wreck. I'm still hoping Lazarus is relevant somehow, and she and TIM are the last people alive intimately familiar with it.

Modifié par jtav, 19 avril 2011 - 06:19 .

[Sigyn2011]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Sylvianus:
I agree with you in this: resigning from Cerberus is a big step for Miranda, and it should not have been treated by the writers as casually as it was. I also think Mac Walters - who wrote this - lacks insight into Miranda and in general, IMO they didn't really think a lot about this decision except that they wanted to make Miranda more palatable to Paragon players and that the scene had to be dramatic. "Consider this my resignation" is more dramatically satisfying than "Sorry, to go against Shepard would be suicide at this point", which would've also made her appear weak. I wouldn't have liked that. In the end, her resignation was probably the best solution out of a set of generally unsatisfying ones. At least the majority of her fans likes her resignation.

As for the CB decision, we'd have to establish what exactly is so bad about keeping it before we can say anything about Miranda's reaction. "She has limits", that's easy to say, but please, what are the horrible limits that would be exceeded by that simple act? TIM building his own Reaper makes no sense, and whatever happened there is in the past and should - for a pragmatic mind like Miranda - not have a great influence on her decision. OK......I'll stop here before I write yet another wall of text about this.

While we're at it, here's another question that has been asked about Miranda's resignation: should her resignation have depended on her loyalty? Should she, if not loyal, have tried to oppose Shepard (possibly resulting in her death at Shepard's hands) instead of resigning? Everyone else already has an opinion about this, but since you're new I'm asking again.

Hello, everyone.  Been reading this thread for a while but haven't had a chance to make discussion yet.  Most interesting topic.  Like many folks, I didn't like Miranda from the start.  But she won me over eventually--as Shepard says "it's nice to see a person under there."  My insights are as follows about Miranda's quitting Cerberus.

We don't know a lot about how close TIM and Miranda's relationship was.  I'm willing to bet that he became a pseudo-father to her, especially since she left the other one.  Secondly, if you read into TIM's profile from the dossier provided by LOTSB, you'll notice that he's quite the ladies' man.  Would NOT at all be surprised if he also made a pass at Miranda, especially when she was much younger.

ME2's plot ran a heckuva lot more quickly than ME1.  So given the timing of the scene, I think the writers did a fine job of handling it.  If you take Miranda with you in the other Collector missions, listen to the comments she makes.  She starts off rather impartial to it all but then gets more involved as time passes.  As with what usually happens in a complex relationship in life, she starts off in denial.  Then as she finds out what kind of a leader he truly is, she gets disgusted with TIM's leadership as time goes on.  His final orders were ignored because she did a 180 and saw that he would put his own ambitions above humanity's cause.  He'd use a base regardless of all the disgusting things that were done to human beings and use it against the Reapers?  It's a complete insult to what she thought he stood for.  Anyway, that's why she differed in her opinion verus a renegade choice.  And she tells Shepard (if he/she spared the CB) that it wasn't a good idea to keep it.  Clearly, her lines are drawn.

[Prudii Aden]

@Ieldra - yeah, shame it doesn't work. If it did, then we'd have Yankee's updated tribute video on this page, and the youtube tags are unlikely to work. Oh well. At least we can stick normal links in!

[aeetos21]

What drew me to her? Well since it is an RPG and since I was brought back from the dead I figured why not talk to the person who was in charge. She then told me that she wanted a control chip in my head. I then politely called her a **** and she basically shot me the finger.

Given my own social experiences that was practically love at first sight.

Modifié par aeetos21, 19 avril 2011 - 06:46 .

[Ieldra]

Sigyn2011 wrote...
If you take Miranda with you in the other Collector missions, listen to the comments she makes.  She starts off rather impartial to it all but then gets more involved as time passes.  As with what usually happens in a complex relationship in life, she starts off in denial.  Then as she finds out what kind of a leader he truly is, she gets disgusted with TIM's leadership as time goes on.

Does she? There is little, if any indication of that. She already knew he was ruthless, and never when we speak with TIM does he show us - or her - that he'll put his personal ambitions above humanity's cause. Not untl *after* the Collector base do we get a good impression of that.

His final orders were ignored because she did a 180 and saw that he would put his own ambitions above humanity's cause.

Again, keeping the Collector base cannot be said to go against humanity's cause.

He'd use a base regardless of all the disgusting things that were done to human beings and use it against the Reapers?  It's a complete insult to what she thought he stood for.  Anyway, that's why she differed in her opinion verus a renegade choice.  And she tells Shepard (if he/she spared the CB) that it wasn't a good idea to keep it.  Clearly, her lines are drawn.

That's where I think her pragmatism comes in. What was done there is in the past, however disgusting it might have been. It doesn't matter anymore, and the Collectors are dead. Recommmending to destroy the base because of what was done there, in spite of the knowledge that can be gained there, is an act driven by sentimentality against the strategic better sense, and Miranda is anything but sentimental. I see Miranda as very similar to Mordin in outlook. I had taken it as a given that she'd take a similar stance. Anything else just doesn't fit. 

As for Cerberus, we have exactly one dialogue entry that can be interpreted as doubting Cerberus. That's when you walk through the Teltin facility. Every other line of hers depends on Shepard taking the opposite stance - for instance in the Collector ship. I don't say her resignation can't be justified, but it does come out of the blue with little indication that she'd take such a drastic step, and that she had to be put between a rock and a hard place in order to make her decision to resign.

(For the recond, I could use sentimentality just as well to argue for keeping the base: the insult would lie in NOT using it against the Reapers, for then all the deaths there would have been for nothing. If you keep it, at least something can be gained to act against those ultimately responsible. Not that I would ever put that into Miranda's mouth, it would be just as out of character as the opposite)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[aeetos21]

I love my new computer, beats the hell out of my old. Can play ME2 right now on my main monitor while I keep an eye on this one to talk with you all. So cool.

Anyway, I destroyed the base not for sentimental reasons but because I made the choice that no one was ready for that sort of technology both because of its game changing power and because of whom it was created by. I'm not with Cerberus thinking that human dominance is in the best interest for humanity, the technology from that base could've just as easily destroyed us as helped us. Which leads into the second reason, it's Reaper tech. More than once it was shown that that sort of technology has a mind of its own or was all part of the Reapers' grand plan. To me it symbolized a sort of Pandora's Box and while I can see the logic behind many other players decisions I respectfully disagree. If I knew more about the tech or could trust the people I was handing it over to then killing thousands or not I still would've used it.

Anyway, my two cents on the CB.

Miranda's transformation I think stems not so much from:

"Oh that TIM! He's so power driven and ruthless! He'd sacrifice thousands, no millions to give humanity an edge! Thank you, Shepard! You have opened my eyes! I've seen the light! Dark Star Lounge here we come - WOOOO!!!"

Instead I think it goes back to trusting the right person, which is really what ME2 was all about. The squadmates and trust. Shepard and Miranda's story whether you agreed with Cerberus or not was about her coming to shake off the emotional abuse caused by her father when he nearly brainwashed her into thinking that superior skills, ruthless but professional attitude, and all that was the reason why a person is great. When along comes Shepard, the prefab farm boy from Mindoir, kicking Reapers and taking credits and telling anyone who doesn't like what he has to say to go to hell with the end result being that he accomplishes the impossible despite being almost her polar opposite. She was/is jealous of the guy and is probably even more pissed off with herself for being jealous in the first place. The final nail in the coffin though, and what I think really shows just how far she's come as a person, is no longer seeing people as tools just to be used by others. This goes back to the whole finding meaning bit earlier and why a person is great. When she realizes that here we have this guy Shepard, out here risking his life not only for her galaxy but for her and her sister as well, by his own free will and getting the job done while on the other hand here's my boss telling me to off the guy that just saved all our asses once his services are no longer required - and the last piece finally falls into place:

He'll replace you just as easily the moment you become expendable. Maybe Miranda could've lived with that before, that their cause outweighed any cost but Shepard is different than other people she's worked with. She never had any friends or anyone else she truly respected. TIM telling her to take Shepard out, that was the moment things got real for her and that is what I think finally tore down that last piece of heartless **** armor.

[Sigyn2011]

[quote]He'd use a base regardless of all the disgusting things that were done to human beings and use it against the Reapers?  It's a complete insult to what she thought he stood for.  Anyway, that's why she differed in her opinion verus a renegade choice.  And she tells Shepard (if he/she spared the CB) that it wasn't a good idea to keep it.  Clearly, her lines are drawn.[/quote]
That's where I think her pragmatism comes in. What was done there is in the past, however disgusting it might have been. It doesn't matter anymore, and the Collectors are dead. Recommmending to destroy the base because of what was done there, in spite of the knowledge that can be gained there, is an act driven by sentimentality against the strategic better sense, and Miranda is anything but sentimental. I see Miranda as very similar to Mordin in outlook. I had taken it as a given that she'd take a similar stance. Anything else just doesn't fit. 

As for Cerberus, we have exactly one dialogue entry that can be interpreted as doubting Cerberus. That's when you walk through the Teltin facility. Every other line of hers depends on Shepard taking the opposite stance - for instance in the Collector ship. I don't say her resignation can't be justified, but it does come out of the blue with little indication that she'd take such a drastic step, and that she had to be put between a rock and a hard place in order to make her decision to resign.

(For the recond, I could use sentimentality just as well to argue for keeping the base: the insult would lie in NOT using it against the Reapers, for then all the deaths there would have been for nothing. If you keep it, at least something can be gained to act against those ultimately responsible. Not that I would ever put that into Miranda's mouth, it would be just as out of character as the opposite)[/quote]

**I think she's a little more sentimental than most people give her credit.  Especially, if she's loyal to Shepard.  In the argument she makes with Shepard or the TIM in the end, she says that she's not so sure that keeping the base is such a good idea because of what she saw.  In the derelict Reaper, there's a part of the stage after you destroy the scions and husks that are before Shepard gets his/her first glimpse of Legion--it's the final scientists' terminal.  As you look out into the space ship and see the husks, Miranda says "this is terrible" or something to that effect without Shepard having said anything.  A person who does not value human life would not say that.  I think she does value it somewhat, and of course, certainly more so now than ever.**

Modifié par Sigyn2011, 19 avril 2011 - 08:08 .

[ExtremeOne]

jtav wrote...

I'm currently playing a game where I'm planning to kill her (insurance against a worst case scenario). Which got me thinking: what kind of consequences would you "like" to see for her death?

  



I would not do that to her in 2 but if in 3 she dies The Alliance better F**king pray and who ever killed her better because My Shepard will slaughter and kill all that get in his way to finding the reason why. 

[jtav]

Miranda being killed in ME3 is the least of my worries. I'm more worried about character assassination or making her into a damsel in distress.

[Ieldra]

@Sigyn:
Certainly she values human life. I've never said she doesn't have empathy, never said she's callous. That's not what I meant with not being sentimental. Sentimentality applies emotion to inappropriate situations or topics, such as a decision that should be ruled by strategic reasoning, possibly political reasoning. "This feels terrible" is something she might feel, but it is no justification for a decision with so wide-ranging implications, and Miranda knows that well. Miranda is sometimes emotional in the game, but never sentimental - except at the Collector base if you select the lower option at the first exchange with TIM. And her success in her line of work as well as her whole character concept indicates that she's generally not prone to sentimentality. That's why I say it is out of character for her.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ieldra]

ProffesionallNoob wrote...
Off the curent topic: Do you guys (and girls, i just used guys as a general expression) think that there was something between Miranda and Jacob? And if so, why?

Of course there was something. Jacob says so, and Miranda hints at it as well after Jacob's loyalty mission. As for why - why is there ever anything between people? No idea.

[jtav]

Oh, yes. You can see it on their faces after his LM. Part of me wants them to reconcile because of that look. I even managed to put a little into my fic.

[Made Nightwing]

In my main Shep/Ash fics, Jacob always reconciles with Miri. It just seems.......right.

[aeetos21]

I'm and a big fan of my Shep romancing Miranda so yeah, hang your biased sign right here. Still the way I read the two characters is more of a result of Shepard's influence on the pair - or maybe the fact that they finally know what and where they'll have to go in order to complete their mission, or die trying. Faced with that level of mortality it kind of puts things in perspective to paraphrase Jacob. I think Miranda and Jacob may always wonder about what could have been but that ship has already sailed - or maybe not depending on what BW has in store for ME3. But besides that one moment Miranda makes no attempt to hide her (condescending?) attitude towards him. She likes the guy but she sees him as a subordinate whereas Shepard is another entity entirely and someone she can relate to on a level she couldn't possible relate to with anyone else.

But getting back on point, as much as you guys might think that moment might lead to something more I interpret it more as closing a chapter on both of their lives. Anyway, onto the first batch of loyalty missions. Think I'll do Jacob's first, lol.

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

Oh, yes. You can see it on their faces after his LM. Part of me wants them to reconcile because of that look. I even managed to put a little into my fic.

She requires a better man than him.....