15168 réponses à ce sujet

[mathieu_p85]

aeetos21 wrote...

Well most important things first.

Welcome to the club Mathieu! We're always happy to have another fan.

I like your description of her professionalism versus her passion but I'm thinking the same professionalism, pragmatism, and maybe a little less independence where Shepard is concerned. Let me clarify that before everybody picks up a torch! I'm saying she opens herself more to Shepard and shows a bit mroe vulnerability than what we had in ME2 - but only in private settings, the one on one moments. Anytime else and she's the same tough and capable woman we all know and love.

She had a great deal of passion in ME2, but depending on your views of Cerberus it may not be the sort you are hoping for. To borrow Jack's expression whether you like it or not Miranda is/was the "Cerberus Cheerleader" in ME2 and had more passion for Cerberus than anybody. In fact whenever I talked to her about Cerberus I kept feeling like I was talking to some sort of HR Recruitment Officer versus something more along the lines of a liason. But that was when I was asking her things about Cerberus. BW is very compartamental about some of their characters and Miranda is perhaps one of the most. She's very organized and doesn't let personal issues spill over to her duties, something I would like to see a little bit less of in ME3.

If I were to do an analogy Jack was very much the opposite of Miranda in that practically everything that was personal spilled over into her duties on Shepard's team. On the other hand like Miranda there were very few moments in ME2 were she truly allowed herself to be vulnerable, making them all that more important.

And just to continue the whole human LI for the male Shep we then have Ashley who unlike Jack and Miranda is a LOT less scarred emotionally given her loving family. Her passion is much more obvious and I feel aimed in the right direction, or at least in the direction Shepard's was aimed in.

Anyway, more one on one moments to show some more passion and vulnerability in ME3. I guess that's what all that nonsense above says.

Thank you for the welcome.

Passion perhaps doesn't really describe what I meant, couldn't really think of the right words to say what I wanted to. What I liked about Miranda was how during those one-on-one conversations she would open up, indeed show some vulnerability. Like you say it contrasts really well with how she behaves otherwise, which gives those one-on-one talks that extra something. As long as that contrast remains in ME3 then that's fine by me, as for whether or not she shows some more vulnerability, I think I'd be ok with that so long as it's during those talks. As for her passion towards Cerberus it doesn't really bother me that much.

[TomY90]

themark443 wrote...

I'm not surprised that they delayed it. The original 'end of 2011' date was just to boost pre-order sales.

I think it was more because EA game them that deadline but later a combination of bioware and EA marketing department said otherwise.

for one in the same period EA games will be having Battlefield coming out which (I hate to say this) will out sell mass effect 3 simply because of having more mass market appeal due to being attractive to (Call of Duty Fans)

it does not make sense to reduce the effectiveness of both products in one season when mass effect 2 can get it high sales no problem in any period like ME2 and DA2 found.

and its actually cheaper to split there big games release dates on a marketing point of view because of not having to pay a huge amount for two games in christmas period (which is usually more expensive to advertise in christmas) so its logical to have one in christmas and one afterwards when its cheaper to do so..

and they know that ME fans are loyal so no matter when it comes out people will buy it whereas battlefield fans and fans of that kind of game not so much

[Sigyn2011]

And typically speaking, quarter four profits will shoot through the roof due to holiday sales. Depending upon how BW's fiscal year goes, January might even be part of Q4. Though if I were head of a company making video games, I'd end my fourth quarter just at the end of November after the so-called US 'black Friday'. Then I'd begin it in December to make some strong sales.

[Ieldra]

mathieu_p85 wrote...
Passion perhaps doesn't really describe what I meant, couldn't really think of the right words to say what I wanted to. What I liked about Miranda was how during those one-on-one conversations she would open up, indeed show some vulnerability. Like you say it contrasts really well with how she behaves otherwise, which gives those one-on-one talks that extra something. As long as that contrast remains in ME3 then that's fine by me, as for whether or not she shows some more vulnerability, I think I'd be ok with that so long as it's during those talks. As for her passion towards Cerberus it doesn't really bother me that much.

I would like to see her strength emphasized, not her vulnerability. Not that I'm totally against it, but it should really be limited to one-on-one conversations in the romance, and even there I'd like her to show confidence instead of vulnerability as a rule - or rather, she should learn the confidence in emotional things she hasn't known so far as far as that's possible in so short a time. To say it bluntly: I don't want Miranda to *need* Shepard, I want her to *want* him (see my old text in the OP for their love being not about need). While that can be as passionate as it comes, I also do not want a Miranda who can't help herself in the romance - I really hate that in romance stories - I want her to let herself fall into it consciously.
And of course her passion should not spill over to her duties as a rule. I very much appreciate Mirandas professionalism and would hate to see that compartmentalization broken.

Anyway, I'd rather focus on what part of story we'll be dealing with. I can imagine, for instance, that her genetic engineering will come up again as a topic connected to one of ME3's subplots.

Just read that ME3 is delayed btw. While that's admittedly a little disappointing, in the end I don't mind. Let's hope they'll use that time to create more content - more Miranda content among other things - and that ME3 will be the most epic game ever!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 mai 2011 - 09:12 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I am going to be a complete ass and leave this here:



Source and artist.

And I do really like Miranda. I think I drag her around as much as Garrus.

[SgtPotato]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I am going to be a complete ass and leave this here:



Source and artist.

And I do really like Miranda. I think I drag her around as much as Garrus.

I... don't know what to say...

Modifié par SgtPotato, 05 mai 2011 - 02:54 .

[Sigyn2011]

Ha! Knew I wasn't the only one who thought about this joke!

[Vertigo_1]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I am going to be a complete ass and leave this here:



Source and artist.

And I do really like Miranda. I think I drag her around as much as Garrus.

Say whaaat

[Ieldra]

Weeeeeellll....

Since that picture was part of a gender challenge contest, I can appreciate its artistic merit. But that doesn't change the fact it has a serious ick factor for me personally. I need an antidote...

[Jebel Krong]

actually cheez, i saw that on DA today and thought it was quite an interesting experiment. gotta say i much prefer the female version though.

[MisterJB]

Dear Lord, he looks like The Illusive Man And Dr.Chakwas illegitimate child.
And I just gave myself nigthmares for the rest of the week.
There is only one prodigal child in the Lawson family and she's a lady.

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Ieldra]

I just found this:



artist link, better known as Yannkee here on BSN. I must say that echos my feelings perfectly

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Jebel Krong]

@ ieldra, hell i'd almost let the earth burn just for the sham trial fiasco... >.<

[MisterJB]

Arijharn wrote...
I think the knowledge that it was a trap was irrelevant to the task at hand. Would it make the situation easier? Doubtful imo, Shephard and co are still going to use their due dilligence and exerise caution.

There are some factors we should take into account, for example,after getting so far without encountering resistance, someone on Shepard's team could have relaxed. If telling him wouldn't make the situation harder, why shouldn't he tell Shepard? TIM spent 4 billions credits to bring Shepard back, I think the least he sould do is trust him to know how to handle these kinds of situations.
Bottom line is, TIM treats people as expendable, puts them through unecessary risks. Warning someone that they are walking into a trap is always better than not warning them, the way I see it.
Perhaps it's simply my personal moral code that prevents me from ever giving TIM reason in this. Still, I can see what you are trying to say  

As for Miranda, I think she's ruthless enough, but she has to be certain of the goal and have no doubts. I mean, she was reckless enough to leave niket by himself because she thought he could move faster on his own, well what if happenstance occuried to which he was surrounded by Eclipse to which Miranda and Shephard could not render assistance? 

Actually, Miranda used herself and Shepard as bait to divert attention away from Kinet. Then he turned out to be an untrustworthy, backstabing piece of... sorry, I really hate that guy.
 

Because it would be frowned upon by the religious authorities? Morals and ethics I think are primarily based off these principles (Thou Shalt not steal, Thou shalt not kill, Thou Shalt not Covet Thy Neighbour's Wife etc). Lengthening one's lifespan is pretty safe, but resurrecting someone from the dead is probably going to make the naysayers cry that we're supplanting god etc, etc. You know, alarmist stuff

Well, if in the year 2183 humanity's progress is still being halted by religious beliefs, I say that Cerberus has more immediate concerns than any threat coming from beyond the Charon Relay.

a small town is offered up as bait.
I think if anything it's the best solution that could have occured, simply because everything was ordered as much as possible to beat the bear. I doubt you could just strand the VS and Shephard on some miscellaneous planet with no one else but themselves and still get the Collector's to show up.

Ok, sorry for insisting on this, but I don't think you are understanding what I'm trying to say. Let's go step by step.

1-Shepard is ressurected by the goddess Miranda and is sent out to gather a team to defeat the Collectors.
2-The Illusive Man spreads rumours that Shepard is alive, working for Cerberus and that Horizon migth be the next colony to get hit.
3-The Alliance, believing that Cerberus is behind the missing colonists, sends the Virmire Survivor to Horizon, just like TIM had predicted.

Now, at this point, TIM was convinced that Horizon would be attacked by the Collectors due to the presence of the Virmire Survivor and there are many things that could have been done to actually set up a real trap and minimize the loss of human lifes. Waning Shepard, for example. That way, he would already be on Horizon or at least in the same system when the Collectors arrived. Granted, it may have taken a few days before they showed up but still...

I mean, what kind of trap was this? TIM actually tought that Shepard could land on the oposite side of the colony, cut a path through the Collectors, board their ship and destroy it? With only six people backing him up?
This is why I don't think Horizon was ever a trap. Horizon served only to test the theory that the Collectors were personally interested in Shepard and therefore, working with the Reapers.
Shepard's only purpose in Horizon was as damage control.

That's true, but we also have documented evidence that the staff was keeping something from Illusive Man, and more to the point that the Illusive Man knew that they were, and asked for 'operational logs. Again'

Of course, I never denied that the Cerberus Cell in Pragia was hiding something from TIM, maybe the torture, maybe not,.
Does that means he knew and approved of stealing babies from their parents? If so, would Miranda have approved his judgement?
I don't think so, and that's really my main point. No matter how much Miranda rationalized that Teltin was rogue, it had to have raised some doubts in her mind regarding Cerberus and TIM.

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 mai 2011 - 11:29 .

[Sigyn2011]

I'd have to concur. Horizon was NOT a trap, TIM was just testing the waters. His risks were highly objectionable, but since Shepard is a soldier and not a strategist first, that's how it all played out. Did I like it? No! I also enjoyed taking Miranda with me on the Pragia mission; the only person's reactions that were almost as good to the facility's crazy experiments is Samara.

[naledgeborn]

Horizon was bs. Putting Ashley/Kaidan on the spot and sacrificing 200,000 colonists just prove a "theory" is not a calculated risk. He allowed it to happen and then only sent Shepard in after the Collectors started harvesting. Telling Shepard about it before hand would've saved those people.

Edit: The people I like taking on Jack's LM are Miranda, Jacob, and Mordin. Mordin gets pissed.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 05 mai 2011 - 12:26 .

[Jebel Krong]

naledgeborn wrote...

Horizon was bs. Putting Ashley/Kaidan on the spot and sacrificing 200,000 colonists just prove a "theory" is not a calculated risk. He allowed it to happen and then only sent Shepard in after the Collectors started harvesting. Telling Shepard about it before hand would've saved those people.

Edit: The people I like taking on Jack's LM are Miranda, Jacob, and Mordin. Mordin gets pissed.

TIM didn't put ash/kaiden on the spot - the alliance did - they were counter-playing each other.

[naledgeborn]

Jebel Krong wrote...
TIM didn't put ash/kaiden on the spot - the alliance did - they were counter-playing each other.

True.
 
Anybody can help me out with a Miranda sig. Doesn't have to be big and flashy just something to show support for ME3. I'm not that savvy when it comes to that stuff.

[MisterJB]

There are many sigs in the OP.

[naledgeborn]

MisterJB wrote...

There are many sigs in the OP.

Found the banners, Where and how to I edit my sig?

Edit: Nevermind I think I got it.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 05 mai 2011 - 02:28 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Does that means he knew and approved of stealing babies from their parents? If so, would Miranda have approved his judgement?
I don't think so, and that's really my main point. No matter how much Miranda rationalized that Teltin was rogue, it had to have raised some doubts in her mind regarding Cerberus and TIM.

No, nobody here thinks Miranda would have approved of that. As for raising doubts, maybe, but I think she was rather relieved that she could put it off as a rogue cell, and with evidence. It's certainly not enough to make her doubt Cerberus and TIM on its own.
 

[naledgeborn]

Miranda's resignation is still in character. Sudden, but it still fits nonetheless. The Collector Base just happened to be the "straw that broke the camel's back". And her doubts as subtle as they may be are there. Teltin and the Collector ship being the two solid instances where they shine through her thick skinned mentality.

[jtav]

The problem is that any hints are easily skipped. It should have been her character arc and played into her LM. Paragon!Shep should have been trying to make her doubt at every opportunity.

[jamesp81]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I apologize Ieldra, but the endgame and LOTSB make me paranoid. I need something that shows me I'm wrong. Yours and Ely's theories sound plausible. I don't want them to be trrue, but I see how they could be. And there are things about her that remind me of hated tropes. I can still see the character I like, but I also see a shadow version I despise. I'm in desperate need of a counterargument and evidence I was right the first time. Come on, talk the paranoid wreck down.

Evidence is hard to come by unless they tell us something about Miranda in ME3. But here are some counterarguments:
(1) If they listen to the fans, they won't do that to her. Even people like Yannkee want her strong and don't want her pragmatism gone, even if they want less of it than we do.
(2) I think with the LotSB comment they may have wanted to bring home to the players who romanced Miranda that she isn't the Cerberus loyalist any more - those who didn't take her to the final boss and those who kept the base would have no indication of that.
(3) To give Miranda a role where her great gifts are left unused would be a waste.
(4) The story needs a human LI who is on Shepard's level. Ashley can't be that.
(5) And lastly, it would be like giving those who were attracted to Miranda in ME2 for more than her appearance a kick in the face. Recall when I first wrote the text which became known as the "Miranda Manifesto"? *Everyone* liked it, and that was the time when there were many more fans on the character threads. That Miranda is on Shepard's level - at least as far as anyone can be - is one of her main points of attraction. I really can't imagine that they go back on that.

I do understand the paranoia. A Miranda who's lost her pragmatism, her moral ambiguity and her drive to use her gifts in the service of a cause she believes in would be a shadow of her former self. What I hope for is that her character development will focus on dealing with those elements that have held her back. Namely, her father's ghost and coming to terms with her origins. She might become a little less detached, and while I wouldnt like that, I could live with it as long as she does't get sentimental and lets that cloud her professional judgment. I think there is hope of that. As I said, I don't think they'll give us a kick in the face with Miranda's character development. Too many people were attracted to her strength and competence to make her a mere satellite now.
 

I have a suspicion.

I thnk people assume that if Miranda behaves in a 'feminine' manner she's somehow weaker.  This could not be further from the truth.  For those that romanced her, she can be in love with Shepard and still be an effective covert operative.

[Td1984]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I just found this:



artist link, better known as Yannkee here on BSN. I must say that echos my feelings perfectly

That was my sentiment exactly when I first saw it a few weeks ago. If Miranda isn't a squadmate, I'm going to ask Harby if he wants my help.