15168 réponses à ce sujet

[lolwut666]

How much do you lot figure Miranda can benchpress?

[jtav]

Earth can already burn for all I care. The Alliance are the first group I'd sacrifice to beat the Reapers. I imagine this would cause friction with Miranda.

Modifié par jtav, 05 mai 2011 - 06:30 .

[wright1978]

I like the fact Miranda's vulnerability comes from the fact that she is genetically engineered to be perfect. Sort of like you can't breed out humanity. I've always felt in my playthroughs that she deals with this to a degree through her belief that Sheperd(someone she sees as her equal) sees more in her than that. Think Liara's comment is just that now because of Mirandas bond with Sheperd there's more iceberg on show above the water for Liara to base her judgements on so to speak. She's still tough and capable but her personal side is more visible because of the relationship with Shepherd. Both women at the start of ME2 seem to have emotional walls firmly up so it i consider Liara's first impressions of Miranda as being pretty much lacking any value.

Really enjoyed reading the 'Miranda Manifesto' which encapsulated a lot of what's great about Miranda too.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
No, nobody here thinks Miranda would have approved of that. As for raising doubts, maybe, but I think she was rather relieved that she could put it off as a rogue cell, and with evidence.

In the next conversation with Shepard, Miranda does not deny that Cerberus was, at least somewhat, to blame for what happened in Pragia.
After all, it was Cerberus's that brougth those children there and had Cerberus not been so careless, those kids could have been "rescued" without the need for a riot.
At least that's what I think she meant and I'm sounding like a broken record

It's certainly not enough to make her doubt Cerberus and TIM on its own.

Perhaps not, it depends on how strongly Miranda would feel against the kidnapping of babies, among other methods.

jtav wrote...

The problem is that any hints are easily skipped. It should have been her character arc and played into her LM. Paragon!Shep should have been trying to make her doubt at every opportunity.

This I agree with. I would have loved to discuss the pros and cons of both the Alliance and Cerberus with Miranda.

lolwut666 wrote...

How much do you lot figure Miranda can benchpress?

I would like to refer you to your username. lol wut?

jtav wrote...

Earth can already burn for all I care. The Alliance are the first group I'd sacrifice to beat the Reapers. I imagine this would cause friction with Miranda.

Sacrificing humanity's only defense against the aliens? Yes, I would imagine so.

[lolwut666]

@MisterJB

That was a serious question.

If she is the perfect woman, it's probably a lot. I was wondering how much it would be exactly, and how would it compare with the other crew members.

[MisterJB]

Was it confirmed that she is physically stronger than the average human? Was physical strength even included on Mr.Lawson's idea of the "perfect woman"? She does have biotics, after all.

[Ieldra]

jamesp81 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I apologize Ieldra, but the endgame and LOTSB make me paranoid. I need something that shows me I'm wrong. Yours and Ely's theories sound plausible. I don't want them to be trrue, but I see how they could be. And there are things about her that remind me of hated tropes. I can still see the character I like, but I also see a shadow version I despise. I'm in desperate need of a counterargument and evidence I was right the first time. Come on, talk the paranoid wreck down.

Evidence is hard to come by unless they tell us something about Miranda in ME3. But here are some counterarguments:
(1) If they listen to the fans, they won't do that to her. Even people like Yannkee want her strong and don't want her pragmatism gone, even if they want less of it than we do.
(2) I think with the LotSB comment they may have wanted to bring home to the players who romanced Miranda that she isn't the Cerberus loyalist any more - those who didn't take her to the final boss and those who kept the base would have no indication of that.
(3) To give Miranda a role where her great gifts are left unused would be a waste.
(4) The story needs a human LI who is on Shepard's level. Ashley can't be that.
(5) And lastly, it would be like giving those who were attracted to Miranda in ME2 for more than her appearance a kick in the face. Recall when I first wrote the text which became known as the "Miranda Manifesto"? *Everyone* liked it, and that was the time when there were many more fans on the character threads. That Miranda is on Shepard's level - at least as far as anyone can be - is one of her main points of attraction. I really can't imagine that they go back on that.

I do understand the paranoia. A Miranda who's lost her pragmatism, her moral ambiguity and her drive to use her gifts in the service of a cause she believes in would be a shadow of her former self. What I hope for is that her character development will focus on dealing with those elements that have held her back. Namely, her father's ghost and coming to terms with her origins. She might become a little less detached, and while I wouldnt like that, I could live with it as long as she does't get sentimental and lets that cloud her professional judgment. I think there is hope of that. As I said, I don't think they'll give us a kick in the face with Miranda's character development. Too many people were attracted to her strength and competence to make her a mere satellite now.

I have a suspicion.

I thnk people assume that if Miranda behaves in a 'feminine' manner she's somehow weaker.  This could not be further from the truth.  For those that romanced her, she can be in love with Shepard and still be an effective covert operative.

That depends on what you mean with "feminine". If that means the stereotypical image where a woman is ruled by her emotions at every turn, then yes, that would make her weaker and prevent her from being a good covert operative, because a good operative is in control of herself as a rule. If "feminine" means that she's always the more vulnerable part in a relationship, then that may not prevent her from doing her job, but it would make her weak in the relationship which I would also hate.

So, what exactly do you mean when you say "feminine"?

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Was it confirmed that she is physically stronger than the average human? Was physical strength even included on Mr.Lawson's idea of the "perfect woman"? She does have biotics, after all.

I would think not, at least not so much. Physical strength is something not so easily enhanced without showing up very obviously as bulging muscles and so on. Miranda is surely athletic, but not more than other above-average humans and certainly not on the level of Olympic weightlifters.

Miranda's physical improvements would involve agility, coordination and fast healing. Mental improvements would include better memory, fast learning (i.e. making new synapse connections faster and retaining that ability throughout her life) and high intelligence, but that, too, cannot go very far beyond superbly gifted other humans, because there's only so much brain you can put into a good-looking human skull. I believe the most striking improvement is the absence of genetic flaws and slower decay of genetic information in subsequent generations of her cells (one of the main reasons for aging), which would give her perfect health and longevity, which in turn would improve her attractiveness drastically.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 mai 2011 - 07:23 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Was it confirmed that she is physically stronger than the average human? Was physical strength even included on Mr.Lawson's idea of the "perfect woman"? She does have biotics, after all.

I would think not, at least not so much. Physical strength is something not so easily enhanced without showing up very obviously as bulging muscles and so on. Miranda is surely athletic, but not more than other above-average humans and certainly not on the level of Olympic weightlifters.

Miranda's physical improvements would involve agility, coordination and fast healing. Mental improvements would include better memory, fast learning (i.e. making new synapse connections faster and retaining that ability throughout her life) and high intelligence, but that, too, cannot go very far beyond superbly gifted other humans, because there's only so much brain you can put into a good-looking human skull. I believe the most striking improvement is the absence of genetic flaws and slower decay of genetic information in subsequent generations of her cells (one of the main reasons for aging), which would give her perfect health and longevity, which in turn would improve her attractiveness drastically.

actually denser bones along with decent but not OTT muscle mass, perhaps trained in higher-g environments would do wonders for physical strength. i can see her (and shep) being well above physical norms.

[Ieldra]

wright1978 wrote...
I like the fact Miranda's vulnerability comes from the fact that she is genetically engineered to be perfect. Sort of like you can't breed out humanity. I've always felt in my playthroughs that she deals with this to a degree through her belief that Sheperd(someone she sees as her equal) sees more in her than that. Think Liara's comment is just that now because of Mirandas bond with Sheperd there's more iceberg on show above the water for Liara to base her judgements on so to speak. She's still tough and capable but her personal side is more visible because of the relationship with Shepherd. Both women at the start of ME2 seem to have emotional walls firmly up so it i consider Liara's first impressions of Miranda as being pretty much lacking any value.

I disagree with the notion that the absence of obvious emotions makes you appear as lacking value. I also only agree in part to the extent to which her genetic engineering determines her vulnerability. I think it is a combination of the genetic engineering and the way she was treated as a child. Also she wasn't engineered to "breed out humanity", no, she was to embody everything that's desirable in a human - health, longevity, good looking, and physically and mentally improved. And if her father hadn't treated her so badly, she would likely still ask the existential questions, but it would not affect her self-esteem so much. 

That Shepard attemps to help her in dealing with that is obvious, in both the Paragon and the Renegade romances. But how much he really affects her remains in the dark. If that's what's meant by Liara's comment, well, then I'll have no reasons for complaints.

Really enjoyed reading the 'Miranda Manifesto' which encapsulated a lot of what's great about Miranda too.

Thank you. Reading it now, I think the language could use some improvement, but the way the text flowed out of my mind when I wrote it .....well....I feel I shouldn't change it.

[jtav]

Miranda is canonically stronger than average: "My reflexes, my strength, even my looks -- they're all designed to give me an edge." How much stronger is debatable.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
That Shepard attemps to help her in dealing with that is obvious, in both the Paragon and the Renegade romances.

Really, the Renegade? Could you please elaborate? I must admit I always felt that the Renegade path contained little else of value besides "Slap Slap Kiss Kiss".

[lolwut666]

Assuming she weights around 60 kgs (120 lbs), she can probably benchpress around 100 kgs (220 lbs).

Maybe a little more, because some people can lift over twice their body weight, and she is supposed to be perfect.

[wright1978]

Didn't mean to suggest lack of obvious emotions makes anyone appear lacking value just that Liara judgement can't be taken seriously as she doesn't know Miranda as a person to begin with, just professionally. There are people with whom you only know them on a professional level which is completely different from knowing who they are as a person.

[jtav]

[

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That Shepard attemps to help her in dealing with that is obvious, in both the Paragon and the Renegade romances.

Really,
the Renegade? Could you please elaborate? I must admit I always felt
that the Renegade path contained little else of value besides "Slap Slap
Kiss Kiss".

Via distraction. She's drowning in self-pity/anguish during that conversation. He focuses her on something outside herself, refocus her train of thought. It's pretty clear she's not angry during that argument. Her tone is almost amused, not the iciness she usually has when angry.

Modifié par jtav, 05 mai 2011 - 08:02 .

[naledgeborn]

Renegade romance: Shepard is pissed off she can't see past her genetic tailoring.

[Comaatil]

http://www.fanfictio...ct_2_Dreamworld

You guys should read this, It's pretty good

[MisterJB]

It...really is not.
Grammatical mistakes, OOC characters, uninspired narrative. Are you the author?
Why is it so hard to find a fic where an Earthborn Shepard met Miranda before the Lazarus Project that is actually good?

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 mai 2011 - 08:43 .

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...
Via distraction. She's drowning in self-pity/anguish during that conversation. He focuses her on something outside herself, refocus her train of thought. It's pretty clear she's not angry during that argument. Her tone is almost amused, not the iciness she usually has when angry.

But unlike the Paragon path, the effects would be temporary, no? So, while he is certainly granting her a reprieve, Shepard is not effectively helping her deal with the issue.

[jtav]

MisterJB wrote...

It...really is not.
Grammatical mistakes, OOC characters, uninspired narrative. Are you the author?
Why is it so hard to find a fic where an Earthborn Shepard met Miranda before the Lazarus Project that is actually good?

Would you settle for colonist Shepard with Miranda tutoring him in biotics?

I don't thunk any one dialog option is gong to have a lasting impact. And getting her out of her depression is a good first step.

[xelander]

lolwut666 wrote...

Assuming she weights around 60 kgs (120 lbs), she can probably benchpress around 100 kgs (220 lbs).

Maybe a little more, because some people can lift over twice their body weight, and she is supposed to be perfect.

Benchpressing has little to do with functional strength. She probably is able to build and mainatain muscle better than most and her genetic tailoring would probably allow her to improve coordination skills much faster. If she has some time to practice, my view is that she's on par with an Olympic level gymnast, which for me means the most functional strength.

Anyway, Miri is all about efficiency, so unless the task is to benchpress a certain weight under specific rules, I don't see how that's relevant; besides we know she's not big on rules, she would think of another way

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Why is it so hard to find a fic where an Earthborn Shepard met Miranda before the Lazarus Project that is actually good?

Ah....I started one (see "Masks and Mirrors" in the OP), but it remains unfinished while I'm involved in others' stories. I hope I'll get to continuing it at some time.

[Vertigo_1]

Spoiler!!!




According to PC gamer Cerberus is after you because they are working for the Reapers "Saren 2.0"
Link to my thread about it

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 05 mai 2011 - 09:26 .

[Ieldra]

There's a disclaimer by Priestley that this is PC Gamer's take on the info given them and may not be totally correct.

[Vertigo_1]

Yeah...just once I wish these magazines (PSM3 and PC Gamer) would have concrete info
E3 it is then