15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

TBH i get the feeling that no-one will be permanent, and some may well depend on how you play - RP pro-cerberus maybe ash/kaiden/vega will leave etc. i also fully expect you to have to choose between say salarians/krogan and quarians/geth in terms of factions that will then be on your side, which would obviously alienate relevant characters.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
TBH i get the feeling that no-one will be permanent, and some may well depend on how you play - RP pro-cerberus maybe ash/kaiden/vega will leave etc. i also fully expect you to have to choose between say salarians/krogan and quarians/geth in terms of factions that will then be on your side, which would obviously alienate relevant characters.

I could live with that. As long as I have a choice of having Miranda semi-permanent, i.e. permanent after a certain point in the game, which must not be near the endgame.

I remain doubtful, though. There are several points against this hypothesis:
(1) It clashes with Bioware's stated design rule of minimizing content not seen by everyone.
(2) Assuming that Ashley and Miranda would be alternates in one team member slot, that would possibly deprive pro-Alliance Shepards of Miranda, which isn't all that plausible in games where she resigned from Cerberus. It would also possibly deprive pro-human Shepards of Ashley, which makes no sense. 
(3) It would throw great opportunities for banter away. I've been looking forward to having Miranda and Ashley on a mission squad for some time.

What I would like to see, as a compromise between a role in the plot and a permanent team member, is something like this:
There is a Cerberus mission where Miranda plays an active role. That is the first time we see her after the end of ME2, and we can, to some extent, determine where in the sequence of missions we play that mission. Once that mission is finished, Miranda will leave to organize things or doing other plot-related stuff, but join us a few missions later, possibly depending on some of our choices. After that, she remains with us until the end of the game..

Bah....all this second-guessing makes me dizzy. Why don't they just say something, damn it?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 mai 2011 - 09:30 .

[Jebel Krong]

because they like to keep everyone on their toes?

i still expect the LIs to be more-or-less on the permanent squad side of things - even if only for filling out the squad, banter, interplay, romance continuity etc and all the other things that go with that - it's a relatively easy way to add a lot of depth to the game. the possible friction between LIs in different games has got to be golden, as you said. i don't think most will appear till you leave earth, then it will probably similar to both previous games where you have a choice of who to "recruit" first - the ME1 returnees therefore get space for reintroductions whilst you obviously then pick up your LI/faves from ME2 at the first opportunity, allowing them to be reintroduced relatively quickly.

[atheelogos]

wright1978 wrote...

that we will get another Liara after LOTSB two minute cut scene.

why would they do that for the grand finale of the trilogy?

[Arijharn]

I seriously doubt that the game would have some sort of binary choice. I.e, you can have either Ashley or Miranda simply because the game can be a bit more complex than that. In fact, the whole idea is that you could have cheated on Ashley with Miranda (although... I'm not sure how exactly that was 'cheating' but anyways).

Miranda not being a squadmate though certainly isn't a 'deal breaker' for me though. In fact, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that I'm going to get ME3 anyway regardless of well anything that could happen. Short of the end of the world, that would suck.

[MisterJB]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i still expect the LIs to be more-or-less on the permanent squad side of things - even if only for filling out the squad, banter, interplay, romance continuity etc and all the other things that go with that

I really don't like the idea that LIs will automatically be permanent squadmates, especially if that means they would be more relevant to the plot had they not been romanced in ME1-2
If it comes down to that, I'll just have to choose the "Damn it, you're rigth option." and hope that the game acknowledges this and lets me start a romance with Miranda in ME3 with better dialogue than I would get had I not played ME2.

atheelogos wrote...
why would they do that for the grand finale of the trilogy?

Because they are mean, mean people.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 mai 2011 - 11:39 .

[Goat_Shepard]

Is James Vega the only new squaddie? I hope so. Based on what Casey said it seems Mordin and Thane are not permanent. Kasumi and Zaeed as well. Add Liara and Ashleykaiden and you have 12 written squaddies, 11 officially. The truthiness tells me Samara won't be permanent due to Liara returning, so IMO 10 recruitables is the magic number. Miranda will be back. For good.

[Blarty]

Not having Miranda back permanently isn't a deal breaker (from a purchase point of view) as such but it is an immersion and continuity breaker. I'm somewhat concerned over the amount of ME1 fan service (not starting a flamewar, mind) given that ME3 is supposed to start more or less straight after ME2.... what is the ME3 intro to be like? As Shepard is arrested, Mordin escaping back to STG over his guilt because of the Genophage, Thane disappearing into the background over his inscrupulous profession, Jack getting the hell away from anything resembling authority, Grunt being shot by Alliance soldiers for his willingness to defend Shepard?

Out of everyone in ME1 & 2, for me the only people that HAVE to stand by Shepard are Garrus, Grunt and Miranda. Garrus has nothing left to go back to after his revenge, and neither does Miranda after seeing the risks that TIM is willing to put both his large investment (Shepard) and one of his top Lieutenants (sp?) (Miranda) through, and her resignation from Cerberus.

Ashley more or less made her choice on Horizon... are we to believe we now have to go through yet another Ashley loyalty mission to convince her we're now back on the Alliance side of the fence?

Sorry for the rant.... but as I see it at the moment, the confirming of (mainly) ME1 characters is starting to get a tad grating now.... after all, bar the 'escape' scenarios mentioned above for the likes of Mordin and Jack etc. everyone has more or less 'pledged' themselves to Shepard's mission, as long as he hasn't done anything to wilfully annoy them, like, for instance, being n conflict with Samara's justicar code.

[elmjuniper]

Oh I see we're discussing ME3 squad members. I hope I get to keep them all, but that's just me being greedy.

[MisterJB]

I can see Shepard giving missions to his squadmates which would explain why only Garrus went with him to the trial since he has nowhere else to be.
Grunt knows nothing about laws so Shepard could have sent him to Tunchanka to help Wrex unify the clans.
Miranda and Jacob were Cerberus so, not only they are more useful tearing Cerberus apart but there was the chance that they could have been arrested had they traveled to Earth.
And Earth could be a little too close to Mr.Lawson for Miranda's tastes.
Jack is a wanted criminal.
Thane could be trying to alert the Hanar and Drell government.
Mordin could be on Sur'kesh alerting the STG to the danger and possibly trying to create a Cure for Genophage which would serve as a banner to unify the krogans under.
Samara migth be a little resentful of Shepard killing 300 000 innocents.
Tali and Legion could be trying to extablish a truce between the Quarians and the Geth.

So, I think it's perfectly justifiable that we start the game with Kaidan/Ashley, Garrus, and Vega.
Not Liara, she's the Shadow Broker, she should stay on that ship.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 mai 2011 - 01:32 .

[Blarty]

@MisterJB I can certainly see your reasoning.... but it feels like you build a team up in ME2, to have them scattered to the winds in the first few minutes of ME3. There are, of course, multiple ways of spinning it, I just have an awful suspicion, unfounded or otherwise, that this is going to be ME1 part 2. I know that sounds trite, but that's the way I'm seeing things at the moment.....

For Garrus, you never know if he gets called back to the Citadel either because of C-Sec or Dr. Michel, etc. & Liara is FAR too busy convincing everyone she is the SB, surely.....

As a curveball for a new character why not have Oriana... or is her safety going to be the plot mechanic employed to marginalise Miranda as a permanent squaddie.

I know we have to wait for information and the such, but a little bit of ME2-squad related info from Bioware really wouldn't go amiss.

Also given that, for many, ME2 was the first Mass Effect they picked up, especially PS3 owners, can they realistically relate to VS and Liara, in general, when a large proportion of their story investment is in ME2?

[Ieldra]

Blarty wrote...
I'm somewhat concerned over the amount of ME1 fan service (not starting a flamewar, mind) given that ME3 is supposed to start more or less straight after ME2.... what is the ME3 intro to be like? As Shepard is arrested, Mordin escaping back to STG over his guilt because of the Genophage, Thane disappearing into the background over his inscrupulous profession, Jack getting the hell away from anything resembling authority, Grunt being shot by Alliance soldiers for his willingness to defend Shepard?

Yes, that's my main concern as well. Excepting only the newcomer, everyone who has been confirmed by name is from ME1, even those who also appear in ME2 and really shouldn't get preferential treatment. Grr.

Casey Hudson said we can "roleplay against the Alliance", that gives me some hope that the Cerberus-origin team members like Miranda and Jacob won't be exiled to a place where we'll meet them once and that's it, but at the moment I'm holding on to that hope by a thread.

Out of everyone in ME1 & 2, for me the only people that HAVE to stand by Shepard are Garrus, Grunt and Miranda. Garrus has nothing left to go back to after his revenge, and neither does Miranda after seeing the risks that TIM is willing to put both his large investment (Shepard) and one of his top Lieutenants (sp?) (Miranda) through, and her resignation from Cerberus.

In my games she doesn't resign. I'm wondering how that will play out. I think her loyalty is more to Shepard than to TIM at this point regardless of the CB decision, but what if not? Will she be among those gunning for Shepard with the rest of Cerberus? That would be unpleasant. 

Ashley more or less made her choice on Horizon... are we to believe we now have to go through yet another Ashley loyalty mission to convince her we're now back on the Alliance side of the fence?

I think that with the Arrival of the Reapers and Cerberus gunning for Shepard, that will be a moot point. At the start anyway. Should we really be able to roleplay against the Alliance, I can see a new conflict brewing, but there won't be a loyalty mission with personal elements, but rather a decision within a main plot mission.

Sorry for the rant.... but as I see it at the moment, the confirming of (mainly) ME1 characters is starting to get a tad grating now....

More than a tad. It was OK with Ashley/Kaidan and Liara, but it's getting enragingly one-sided.

[Vertigo_1]

atheelogos wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

I Should have posted this earlier:
The confirmed ME3 squad so far according to the article (looking @you jtav...):

ASHLEY WILLIAMS
KAIDAN ALENKO
LIARA T'SONI
GARRUS VAKARIAN
JAMES SANDERS (now James Vega)

Hmmm I thought Tali was confirmed..

Yeah confirmed from other sources (Casey Hudson, PC Gamer)...I only listed from Xbox World Magazine.

[MisterJB]

Blarty wrote...

For Garrus, you never know if he gets called back to the Citadel either because of C-Sec or Dr. Michel, etc.

I could see Shepard use Garrus and Baley to wrestle control of the Council away from Udina but I predict that Garrus will stay mostly Shepard's left hand (the rigth hand is Miranda, ofc) 

As a curveball for a new character why not have Oriana... or is her safety going to be the plot mechanic employed to marginalise Miranda as a permanent squaddie.

I like to think that the first thing Miranda and Shepard did after she resigned was attend to Oriana's safety off-screen.
Still, I could see Oriana being used to start Miranda's personal mission in which we meet her father.
Here's a question: If Miranda confronts her father in ME3, how would you like that to turn out?
Personally, I would like if Miranda proved to her father that he no longer has any control over her life by letting him live and not destroying his empire. It seems to me that her father would have tried to input on her the will to kill anyone who gets in her way.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 mai 2011 - 04:07 .

[Jebel Krong]

MisterJB wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i still expect the LIs to be more-or-less on the permanent squad side of things - even if only for filling out the squad, banter, interplay, romance continuity etc and all the other things that go with that

I really don't like the idea that LIs will automatically be permanent squadmates, especially if that means they would be more relevant to the plot had they not been romanced in ME1-2
If it comes down to that, I'll just have to choose the "Damn it, you're rigth option." and hope that the game acknowledges this and lets me start a romance with Miranda in ME3 with better dialogue than I would get had I not played ME2.

that's not what i meant: having the LIs there automatically creates interest and plot development that would have to have a lot of time and ebergy invested into it for new characters in the same position - people want to see where their romances go, what tension that causes, banter with the other crew etc etc. that's more interesting stuff, not less.

[MisterJB]

I certainly can't wait to hear Miranda's banter in ME3, especially with Wrex if possible. However, if I have to choose between that or seeing Miranda discussing battle plans, managing Cerberus's resources and having Miranda's efforts being recognized by the War Leaders of the different races, I have to go with the second option,

[Blarty]

MisterJB wrote...

Blarty wrote...

For Garrus, you never know if he gets called back to the Citadel either because of C-Sec or Dr. Michel, etc.

I could see Shepard use Garrus and Baley to wrestle control of the Council away from Udina but I predict that Garrus will stay mostly Shepard's left hand (the rigth hand is Miranda, ofc) 

As a curveball for a new character why not have Oriana... or is her safety going to be the plot mechanic employed to marginalise Miranda as a permanent squaddie.

I like to think that the first thing Miranda and Shepard did after she resigned was attend to Oriana's safety off-screen.
Still, I could see Oriana being used to start Miranda's personal mission in which we meet her father.
Here's a question: If Miranda confronts her father in ME3, how would you like that to turn out?
Personally, I would like if Miranda proved to her father that he no longer has any control over her life by letting him live and not destroying his empire. It sems to me that her father would have tried to input on her the will to kill anyone who gets in her way.

That's an interesting line to take - the best way to show someone they're not in control of you, is after all to just walk away from whatever they're telling you to do, or to not act the way they believe you to be conditioned to act.

[Td1984]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Casey Hudson said we can "roleplay against the Alliance", that gives me some hope that the Cerberus-origin team members like Miranda and Jacob won't be exiled to a place where we'll meet them once and that's it, but at the moment I'm holding on to that hope by a thread.

I hope going against the Alliance isn't the only way to have Miranda as a permanent squadmate. Especially if that could cost us the war against the Reapers.

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Bah....all this second-guessing makes me dizzy. Why don't they just say something, damn it?

Because I specifically told PR not to mention Miranda to make you panic!

Heres my take on why we don't know yet:

• According to multiple magazines we wont know why Cerberus will turn on us till we play ME3 (I don't count PC Gamer because there was no developer quote on it)
  
• Because Miranda was a top ranked individual within that organization they might delay her reveal

E3 is my guess as to when the reveal occurs but it could be later than that

Like I said in my earlier post about Casey Hudson revealing more of the squadmates at E3:
Cross your fingers!

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 12 mai 2011 - 05:22 .

[MisterJB]

Here's a quote from Hudson......."Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...
Miranda has been captured by Cerberus or her father and we have to save her, most likely.
Damsel in distress already? I think I'm gonna be sick.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 mai 2011 - 08:01 .

[RedAxle]

'd By MisterJB
While I'm here I just want to say how much I enjoy Miranda in ME2. *goes back to lurker mode* 

Modifié par RedAxle, 12 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Caihn]

MisterJB wrote...

Here's a quote from Hudson......."Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though... :p"For some reason this quote worries me....
Miranda has been captured by Cerberus or her father and we have to save her, most likely.
Damsel in distress already? I think I'm gonna be sick.

I also don't like this.
My hopes of having Miranda back as a squadmate are mostly gone, and my will to play to ME3 too.

[jtav]

Oh, great. Though I did speculate she might be on the run. We know from Retribution that TIM does not take betrayal lightly, and I can see any version of Miranda staying with the "new" Cerberus. I just hope she comes out of it better than Grayson did. The last thing I need is Leng stuffing her into the fridge to prove he's badass.

[RedAxle]

MisterJB wrote...

Here's a quote from Hudson......."Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...
Miranda has been captured by Cerberus or her father and we have to save her, most likely.
Damsel in distress already? I think I'm gonna be sick.

*comes back from lurker mode* Maybe when he says he'll hope she's okay he means that he hopes she lived through the SM. At least that's what I hope he meant.  *relurks*

Modifié par RedAxle, 12 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Here's a quote from Hudson......."Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...
Miranda has been captured by Cerberus or her father and we have to save her, most likely.
Damsel in distress already? I think I'm gonna be sick.

I really can't imagine that they'll be doing a damsel in distress scenario with her. That would go against a core trait her fans like about her - her competence. I'd say even someone like Miranda can be in over her head, and if she shows the appropriate competence and initiative I have no objection against Shepard providing the last bit she needs to master the situation. 

Recall Lazarus Station? "A bunch of mechs won't drop Miranda" (Jacob). If we have to get Miranda out of something, it won't be out of a situation where she's helpless, but where she's already done most to get out of it but has run into a specific difficulty where she needs our help.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 mai 2011 - 08:19 .