15168 réponses à ce sujet

[bald man in a boat]

^ I hear you. Don't be shocked if it happens is basically what I'm saying. Can't see indoctrination playing a part but Cerberus involvement is probably a certainty.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
On the other hand, do you know what would be awesome?

*Shepard received intelligence that Miranda has been captured and is being held in a secure facility. He storms the Cerberus lair, ready for his Big Damn Heroes moment only to find about half a dozen dead, unconscious, or otherwise subdued Cerberus agents. Miranda stands over one of them, eyebrow cocked ironically at Shepard

Shepard: Miranda? I thought you were captured?
Miranda: I was. I freed myself ten minutes ago and subdued the last of my captors seven minutes ago. Where were you?

Yes, some variant of that would be awesome. I'm envisioning a similar scene:

Shepard and one team member are walking along a corridor. They've spent some time exploring this Cerberus station and are on high alert for enemies.

There's a thumping sound coming from behind a bulkhead. Then another. The bulkhead flies out of its frame, driven by the body someone has thrown against it. A blue afterglow is hanging in the air. Camera zooms on that body. Blood is seeping out of some cracks in its armor.

Camera swings to the opening. Miranda steps through, as composed as ever. Seeing Shepard, she raises one eyebrow.

Miranda (with a challenging smile): "You're late".

Shepard (looks pointedly at the body): "Seems you didn't need my help after all."

Miranda (self-deprecatingly): "Perhaps. I'd have escaped. But that's not enough."

Shepard: "So you went here on your own? What for?"

Miranda: "I'd heard Cerberus was after you. [if Miranda didn't resign: Nobody told me]. I wanted to know what's behind it. I had my own personal network within Cerberus, but they've all been subverted. That's how I got captured. When I noticed the strange behaviour, it was too late for escape. It appears they've been indoctrinated."

Miranda: "How could the Illusive Man let that happen? He knows what we're up against. Anyway, the rest of the station is on high alert now. No chance of slipping through undetected. If you aren't in a hurry to leave, together we might prevent this mission from becoming a total failure."

Shepard [romance option present if ME2 romance progressed past the promise scene] (smiling): "It would only have been a total failure if they'd got you."

Miranda (a mix of exasperation and amusement on her face): "We've got a job to do.....but..."

She steps closer, hesitates for a moment, then proceeds to kiss him rather forcefully.

We hear another bulkhead opening with a hiss. Camera swings over to show Kai Leng standing in the opening, a squad of Cerberus guards behind him.

Kai Leng (sarcastically): "What a touching reunion! [if Miranda resigned: I knew there was more behind your betrayal than....professional disagreement]. Unfortunately it won't proceed beyond this point."

The boss fight of this mission ensues.

How does that sound to you? I think this would make both her capture and her need for Shepard's help believable without making her appear weak. Kai Leng's entrance is a bit stereotypical, but I guess a little of stereotypical vlllain behavior might be in character for him.
Slightly changed this would also be a great introduction to Miranda for new players.

... which would be swiftly followed by a widow round between kai leng's eyes - stupid book character anyway.

I take it you don't like my scenario? Why?

Anyway, a widow round between Kai Leng's eyes would be appropriately badass, for instance as a Renegade interrupt, but I very much suspect he'll be a mini-boss and we won't get that.

[Ieldra]

bald man in a boat wrote...
^ I hear you. Don't be shocked if it happens is basically what I'm saying. Can't see indoctrination playing a part but Cerberus involvement is probably a certainty.

Shocked? No. But I'd be disappointed. I liked Miranda's LM in ME2, but I'm so sick of family problems getting into everything where they don't belong, and I'd hate to see Bioware repeating themselves in that. This is not a soap opera, damn it! 

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I think Miranda's sister might've been taken by Cerberus, and thus TIM is going to blackmail Miranda into betraying Shepard.

I don't want Oriana to be a plot hook again. First, we already had that, and second, I'd prefer something more connected to the main plot.

How about Oriana is on a world that's about to be devoured by the Reapers (this isn't an 'if' nor is it avoidable, it's going to happen). It's not a world 'important' enough to defend (i.e., concentrate defenses upon), but Miranda obviously wants the one good thing from her old life to live on (due to the fact that she 'bent over backwards' to save her from their father) and so you hatch a plot to rescue her from the world.

Morale choices of who else you can save (and potentially waste too much time on this blasted planet) can abound.

Modifié par Arijharn, 13 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

... which would be swiftly followed by a widow round between kai leng's eyes - stupid book character anyway.

I take it you don't like my scenario? Why?

Anyway, a widow round between Kai Leng's eyes would be appropriately badass, for instance as a Renegade interrupt, but I very much suspect he'll be a mini-boss and we won't get that.

no i did like it - i don't like any of the book characters, they have all been bad, and i don't think they should tarnish the games by crossing over.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
no i did like it - i don't like any of the book characters, they have all been bad, and i don't think they should tarnish the games by crossing over.

I agree with that - the books are mostly terrible, and Karpyshyn wrote TIM as a cardboard villain - such waste of potential. But Kai Leng is confirmed to appear in ME3, and he's a high-ranked Cerberus agent, so it's likely that we'll see him in such a situation rather than someone else.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 mai 2011 - 09:33 .

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I think Miranda's sister might've been taken by Cerberus, and thus TIM is going to blackmail Miranda into betraying Shepard.

I don't want Oriana to be a plot hook again. First, we already had that, and second, I'd prefer something more connected to the main plot.

How about Oriana is on a world that's about to be devoured by the Reapers (this isn't an 'if' nor is it avoidable, it's going to happen). It's not a world 'important' enough to defend (i.e., concentrate defenses upon), but Miranda obviously wants the one good thing from her old life to live on (due to the fact that she 'bent over backwards' to save her from their father) and so you hatch a plot to rescue her from the world.

Morale choices of who else you can save (and potentially waste too much time on this blasted planet) can abound.

As I said, we already had Oriana as a plot hook. Repeating that would make it appear as if Miranda's life orbited around her sister. And also as I said, I want to get away from the family problems of my team members. ME2 had an overabundance of that.

[Blarty]

Ieldra2 wrote...

bald man in a boat wrote...
Thing is, NOT using Miranda's sister as leverage would be strange. since it's the perfect setup for the continuation of her story. I'd be surprised if it weren't used in some way.

ME3 will be - and should be - less about a character's personal problems. Also they've already used Oriana as a plot hook. There are a few months between the end of ME2 and the start of ME3. Enough time for Miranda to get her sister away off-screen.  

Whilst I agree that the personal business is far less important this time around... after all you have your team and you have their loyalty now, the fact that Miranda was a high ranking officer in Cerberus, and that her father used to fund Cerberus are all linked - if Miranda turns her back on Cerberus, and her father gets wind of it, and proposes his not inconsiderable wealth and backing in exchange for Cerberus 'doing something about his wayward and errant daughter'... then her personal background, whilst not being a specific mission as such, could well get folded back into the main plot lines.

I'm hoping that because of the whole Cerberus thing, that Miranda becomes not just a squadmate but a major plot arc.... akin to say, Garrus helping with the Turian council, Liara and the Asari, and so on....

To say that Miranda, is too good to be left out is both inviting fate, and doing a disservice to the other characters from ME1 and ME2, but I believe that Miranda's 'plot mileage' is, at least as good as any of the other characters.

Also the 'Cerberus are your enemy, Miranda & Jacob were Cerberus' link might make BW want to be a bit more secretive about their role in the game

[Blarty]

Jebel Krong wrote...

no i did like it - i don't like any of the book characters, they have all been bad, and i don't think they should tarnish the games by crossing over.

Perhaps this is part of the reason for the James Sanders -> James Vega name change (although it may just be GI getting confused due to seeing the early parts of the dev process

[MisterJB]

What if Miranda, when she realized Leng was the one after her, let herself be captured, hoping he would take her to The Illusive Man and knowing full well that Shepard would come for her?

[jtav]

I almost dread to post this, but...

I crossed my arms over my chest and did my best to give Miranda an intimidating look. "Or you could just be way off base." I towered over her and outweighed her by at least fifty pounds, but it didn't seem to bother her. I might as well have tried intimidating a glacier. "All you've got is the word of a miserable slimeball of a slaver. I've got news for you: crooks lie."

The fury left her as quickly as it came, and she gave me another predatory smile. "You're right. He is scum. I have no doubt he'll be spending the rest of his life in an Alliance prison, but that doesn't seem like enough, does it? Someone should make people like him pay as they truly deserve. Someone has to protect those colonists. Why shouldn't it be you? You're lifting salt shakers now. I imagine what you could do with an implant and decent amp. There wouldn't be anything left of those slavers."

I won't lie: she tempted me for half a second. The squints had ruined my life, and I'd spent a lot of time thinking of ways to kill them for the first few months after the attack. And the idea that I could stop another Mindor from happening... well, if that wouldn't make the nightmares go away, then nothing would. But no. I'd be shipped off to Jump Zero to undergo who knew what training. They didn't let family visit out there. Too much of a security risk, they said. I'd be alone again. And the Alliance wouldn't leave me alone afterwards either. I'd be documented, my life subtly directed and nudged until working for them was my only option for a decent existence. No art school, no freedom, no anything. "I'm not a biotic."

The smile widened. I took a half step back to get away from her. She twirled a finger around a stray lock of hair with practiced casualness. "Perhaps. A real biotic would have been able to save his family. His parents, his brother and sister, all of them. But you? You were helpless."

"No!" Something broke inside me. The next few seconds were flashes of sensation. A sharp, metallic taste in my mouth. Energy coursing down my spine and across my arms. My arm swinging outward. Miranda smirking at me. And the fury that consumed me. Not my fault. Not my fault. The next thing I knew, I was on my knees. Coughing. Red flecks appeared on the carpet. I was coughing blood. And I felt like I'd been trampled by a herd of elcor.

It was Miranda's turn to tower over me. A rapidly fading blue aura crackled around her. "Impressive. You're far more powerful than I ever dreamed. I'd say that was forty or fifty newtons of force." She made a dismissive noise. "Though I wouldn't suggest trying it again. I do want you alive."

What the hell had I just done?

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
What if Miranda, when she realized Leng was the one after her, let herself be captured, hoping he would take her to The Illusive Man and knowing full well that Shepard would come for her?

Depending on what she knows about late Cerberus operations, she would not want to take the risk. She might end up indoctrinated like Grayson, and her former colleages would know very well what she's capable of. The infiltration attempt I described is more believable. Also I don't want her helpless, even if she's decided to let herself be captured. I want her to do something awesome and introduce herself to new players with a bang.  

[Ieldra]

@jtav:
That's an awesome scene, really! Why did you dread posting it.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 Also I don't want her helpless, even if she's decided to let herself be captured. I want her to do something awesome and introduce herself to new players with a bang.  

In the situation I described, she would free herself, of course. I simply tought that came without saying.

Arijharn wrote...
True, but at the end of the day she still risked Shephard's life

Well, everyone risks Shepard's life on a daily basis. It's like people think he likes being under fire.

TIM has been feeding you information throughout the entire game, so I think it's a bit unfair to assume that's he's been doing 'nothing.'

TIM has an important role and without him, we would never have defeated the Collectors. But,at the end of the day, he sends people to death traps while he sits safely on his fortress. It's understandle but c'mon, even Anderson is grabbing an Assault Rifle in ME3 and TIM has field experience.

Anyway, I don't think we're going to get any closer to persuading the other person into accepting our views as 'fact' on this issue, and since it doesn't have much to do with Miranda herself, it's probably as OT as what can be allowed. I'm more than okay to putting this into PM if you are (unless you want to continue here I spose )

I don't think it's necessary. I was just saying that if Horizon was indeed a trap, it could have been handled a lot better, but eventually, it all boils down to gameplay mechanics.
Just one thing, I didn't say destroy the Cruiser. I said board him, kill the Collectors, retrieve its IFF and then study it. As dangerous as that migth be.

Honestly, I don't see the difference. Intellectually I do, but Cerberus repeats the cause as a personal motto, so I think the two are as virtually indistinguishable from each other as Cerberus is from TIM himself.

This is important because it's possible for Miranda to lose faith in and even resign from Cerberus while remaining loyal to the cause.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
As I said, we already had Oriana as a plot hook. Repeating that would make it appear as if Miranda's life orbited around her sister. And also as I said, I want to get away from the family problems of my team members. ME2 had an overabundance of that.

Honestly? I think Oriana's life does figure greatly into Miranda's own and perhaps for obvious reasons. Yes the Reapers are the big bad, and yes I want all the quests to somehow figure into this, but I think it helps nail just how fearsome the Reapers are when the game tries for the gut punch.

We want context right? I think there's a danger somewhat if the way ME3 is designed we're forced to view the Reapers as some sort of 'abstract threat.' What do I mean by 'abstract'? When it's a conflict that doesn't try to engage us as people and when it's only nameless, faceless people who 'suffer.' Of course, I want situations where David temporarily beats out Goliath, but it shouldn't be to the point where it's immediately predictable. If my idea was to go ahead for example, I'd make it ambiguous to the very end of whether Oriana could get out in time.

As it is, if Oriana isn't involved with ME3, she'll seem to me at least as some sort of dangling plot thread.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Why hasn't anyone thought that Miranda would be an informant for the Alliance, therefore granting her automatic immunity, while technically remaining factionless and slowly destroying Cerberus?

That's the most logical scenario IMO.

Modifié par MsSihaKatieKrios, 13 mai 2011 - 01:00 .

[naledgeborn]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Why hasn't anyone thought that Miranda would be an informant for the Alliance, therefore granting her automatic immunity, while technically remaining factionless and slowly destroying Cerberus?

That's the most logical scenario IMO.

For 20 years? Double agents have a hard enough time not losing their grasp on reality. In most cases just to set up a sting operation. 20 years of being a double agent would make Miranda mentally unstable if she'd remain loyal to the Alliance. And her walking back into Cerberus (if base destroyed) after resigning would do more than raise a couple of red flags with tIM. 

I don't know about this one. 

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

naledgeborn wrote...
For 20 years? Double agents have a hard enough time not losing their grasp on reality. In most cases just to set up a sting operation. 20 years of being a double agent would make Miranda mentally unstable if she'd remain loyal to the Alliance. And her walking back into Cerberus (if base destroyed) after resigning would do more than raise a couple of red flags with tIM. 

I don't know about this one. 

20 years? I think you misread me honey...what I meant to say was that after quitting Cerberus, she becomes an informant for the Alliance. At the same time, she uses her prior knowledge of Cerberus to destroy the organisation from the outside. It's impossible for her to get back in after giving TIM the middle finger.

Modifié par MsSihaKatieKrios, 13 mai 2011 - 01:16 .

[enayasoul]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

20 years? I think you misread me honey...what I meant to say was that after quitting Cerberus, she becomes an informant for the Alliance. At the same time, she uses her prior knowledge of Cerberus to destroy the organisation from the outside. It's impossible for her to get back in after giving TIM the middle finger.

When I was reading Retribution, (not finished yet) that came to mind.  She'd be the perfect person to help the Alliance take down Cerberus, ie, the Illusive Man. 

[ExtremeOne]

CaseyDHudson Casey Hudson

.@Chewin_3 Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...

[ExtremeOne]

 This is what he said  
CaseyDHudson Casey Hudson

.@Chewin_3 Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...

[enayasoul]

ExtremeOne wrote...


CaseyDHudson Casey Hudson

.@Chewin_3 Miranda will be in #ME3 of course. In what role, I won't spoil that. I hope she's okay though...

I sense a little teasing in the last part.

Miranda's tough and capable.  She better be ok! 

[Ieldra]

@MsKatie, enyasoul:
I'd prefer Miranda to stay a free agent. I have Shepards who aren't too fond of the Alliance, and will like them considerably less after the trial. I can see her working against Cerberus, but on her own behalf and to find out why they are after Shepard, not as a job for the Alliance.

@ExtremeOne:
Yes, that quote is already well known. We think she might be in trouble somewhere, but hope she'll be able to free herself from it with little help from Shepard. Two scenes how that might happen have been posted on the previous pages.

[naledgeborn]

Uploaded a single Shepard from ME1 if anyones interested.
http://www.zshare.ne...098705db69af7a/

[jtav]

We don't even know what we don't know. I've come up with scenarios that I would really enjoy and scenarios that make me rethink the idea of having Miranda survive the suicide mission. I can see Miranda being something of a resistance fighter against Cerberus. I can also see her as being Kai Leng's victim or a reluctant traitor who came crawling back to Cerberus to save her sister. It's difficult to get a handle on it because Miranda's characterization is all over the place. For every suggestion competence and independent, there's also something that suggests that she's a woman dominated by her emotions in a bad way, who projects only the illusion of competence.