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[Jebel Krong]

LuxDragon wrote...



Big thanks to EpisodeSkywalker for making this poster for me and my fic!

wow! that is a very well-made image! nice blending, great composition and placement - stunning! 

[Jebel Krong]

Td1984 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
(and i still don't get how Liara will possibly be back as a squaddie).

Simple. Cerberus is now working for the Reapers (with or without TIM). Cerberus knows Liara is close to Shepard and where the SB base is. They could go after Liara to get at Shepard so she's no longer safe on her ship and has to move in to the Normandy.

and how do cerberus know where she is, exactly? yes you can play LoSB relatively early on in the game, that doesn't necc mean any information about the SB got back to Cerberus or TIM from the Normandy or you, and most people would have played it after finishing the game, which makes it even less likely. Liara also said that she couldn't do her current work BEFORE becoming SB on the Normandy, what chance does she have of continuing as such AS SB? just not possible.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 25 mai 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ieldra]

TomY90 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Family stuff again.

I'm beginning to wonder if people can't make - or even think of - an emotionally engaging plot without family stuff being somewhere in it? I'm getting mightily sick of it. OK, Oriana and Miranda's father have been established as important to her, but that's no reason to repeat it. Oriana definitely shouldn't be a plot hook *again*, and Miranda's father only if he's somehow connected to the main plot, albeit loosely. He has Cerberus connections, so that's not impossible.

I understand where you are coming from that we can only bring up her family but that is the only thing we really know about her apart from her genetics but that is from her father so it ties in anyway.

I doubt very much you could create an interesting mission involving her fertility and if we had more knowledge of her history then we could use other parts of it but to me its

either her father or cerberus or even tie them together.

He was one of the major investors into cerberus and was a major believer and supporter of them. So its probable that he knows some details of cerberus history that Miranda and Shepherd do not know

And Miranda does hold her family (what little there is) very dear to herself which makes sense that she will want to protect those she holds dear to herself whether its from the Reapers or from her father which I think it would generate an emotional generating plot  (and it is clear that she has unfinished business with the man)

and of course it is very likely she will have a major role involving cerberus in ME3 so that is most likely her missions during ME3 atleast.

**EDIT**

and too be honest I think some of us will be question the out of the blue information coming out about Miranda's history popping up unless its history between ME2 and ME3

As I see it, there are two unused plot hooks left for MIranda in ME3:

(1) Her connection to Cerberus
(2) Her coming to terms with her origins.

I agree that (2) would very likely involving her father in one way or the other, regardless of whether she'll have to confront him in person. I don't have anything specifically against this scenario.

My objection was a more general one: the observation that apparently some people can't imagine an emotionally engaging plot without family being somehow part of it. As if people couldn't deeply care about anything else. Just so we do not forget it: Miranda has ideals, she has an agenda, something she cares for that is bigger than herself and her family. She wants to put her gifts into the service of all humanity, as a contrast to - by her own words - her father's selfish ambitions (of course we may be quite mistaken about how selfish they really were, but that's not the point). To subsume that under family problems would be ignoring a part of her that has always fascinated me.

We can have family problems in every soap opera. In an epic SF drama there needs to be more.  So let's concentrate on that. I'd like Cerberus and Miranda's work for them, her possible disillusionment with them and her thinking of a way to do things a better way to be part of her story. I want Miranda's genetic engineering and the possible repercussions of the technology that made her to be a topic. If then her father comes in by necessity, it won't look out of place. But I don't want her story to be reduced to family problems. That would cheapen her.

[EpisodeSkywalker]

Jebel Krong wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...



Big thanks to EpisodeSkywalker for making this poster for me and my fic!

wow! that is a very well-made image! nice blending, great composition and placement - stunning! 

Thank you

Modifié par EpisodeSkywalker, 25 mai 2011 - 02:21 .

[Prudii Aden]

Just figured out why Cerberus is so variable in competence - they've got Pinky & the Brain in charge. The Illusive Man is their figurehead. Go on, tell me this doesn't make sense!

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...
Just figured out why Cerberus is so variable in competence - they've got Pinky & the Brain in charge. The Illusive Man is their figurehead. Go on, tell me this doesn't make sense!

NIce. But I think it's rather a case of "players are morons" in the minds of the writers. They thought we wouldn't understand a more subtle presentation.

And btw, Miranda wouldn't work for either.

[Caihn]

EpisodeSkywalker wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...



Big thanks to EpisodeSkywalker for making this poster for me and my fic!

wow! that is a very well-made image! nice blending, great composition and placement - stunning! 

Thank you

I agree, it's beautiful. You did a good work.
Using the Miranda litho picture was a good idea, she's so badass on it.
Too bad she doesn't wear her black leather suit.

(added in my favorites on deviantart)

Modifié par Yannkee, 25 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[jtav]

Quick question as I work on chapter five. How proud/stubborn do you think Miranda is when it comes to asking for help? She gets injured pretty badly but not life-threateningly. Would she be the type to insist on continuing to move under her power, painfully, when help is offered. Also, are my initial instincts that she wouldn't tell anyone about her background if she could help it correct? Or would she not be above using it to manipulate Shepard?

[LuxDragon]

It depends on how professional you made her. If she knows that her injury makes her a liability, getting help is reasonable and doesn't slow anyone down more than not asking.

Or if too personal, then no. She wouldn't ask for help. That would be like admitting her weaknesses, and that what she considers her own 'mistakes' over her perfections.

[TomY90]

jtav wrote...

Quick question as I work on chapter five. How proud/stubborn do you think Miranda is when it comes to asking for help? She gets injured pretty badly but not life-threateningly. Would she be the type to insist on continuing to move under her power, painfully, when help is offered. Also, are my initial instincts that she wouldn't tell anyone about her background if she could help it correct? Or would she not be above using it to manipulate Shepard?

I think Samara actually sums up what Miranda up involving this quite well which is (from what I remember)

Miranda is strong and is not willing to share her burdens like every women should do

I mean by it is that if she carried a wound she would most likely carry on regardless even if it caused her pain to move on her own steam. 

And I know Samara meant it responsibility wise but to me it suits her as well if she had an injury etc

I feel she would put up a fight about getting assistance from people (including shepherd) if it got in the way of the mission but if it did not affect the mission i think she would be more willing to get aid.

I do actually agree with you that she would not naturally tell her life story to people,

I think she only tells shepherd about it all is because she can relate to shepherd because he/she has achieved a lot from being strong and their abilities and in most cases having a tough up bringing.  Though she does in a way have envy towards shepherd because he/she achieved what they did through skill and ability and Miranda feels that her achievements are from what her father gave her.

Of course she probably feels that she knows what shepherd thinks and reacts because she does know everything about shepherd right down to every single detail making shepherd the ideal candidate to spill your guts to.

I do not feel she would manipulate Shepherd to her will she seems not the type to do so if she wants something done she would do it herself, which can be shown from the discussion on the normandy prior to stopping Oriana potential kidnapping that asking for help does not come naturally to her.

From what you can see as well from previous games (ME Galaxy) and the Cartoons she has been in is that she tends to tell the people involved what they are doing it for but sometimes seemed less willing to tell who she works for but that is natural considering she is working for a terrorist group.

So for me she is no way manipulate people into doing things at most she will without information like when she ran away with Oriana she did not tell the friend who helped that she had her sister with her and she did not really tell Jacob from the start she was working for cerberus and the same can be said for shepherd considering it was Jacob who told shepherd and Miranda went 'Ahh Jacob, I should have known your conscience would have got the better of you' after shepherd said 'I know you work for cerberus Miranda'

[ADLegend21]

New Guns and Poems. some Miri fluff, ut I'm taking her and Shepard's relationships slowly since it's only been a few weeks since Horizon. but that train will start picking up speed soon.

[Mufasa92]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TomY90 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Family stuff again.

I'm beginning to wonder if people can't make - or even think of - an emotionally engaging plot without family stuff being somewhere in it? I'm getting mightily sick of it. OK, Oriana and Miranda's father have been established as important to her, but that's no reason to repeat it. Oriana definitely shouldn't be a plot hook *again*, and Miranda's father only if he's somehow connected to the main plot, albeit loosely. He has Cerberus connections, so that's not impossible.

I understand where you are coming from that we can only bring up her family but that is the only thing we really know about her apart from her genetics but that is from her father so it ties in anyway.

I doubt very much you could create an interesting mission involving her fertility and if we had more knowledge of her history then we could use other parts of it but to me its

either her father or cerberus or even tie them together.

He was one of the major investors into cerberus and was a major believer and supporter of them. So its probable that he knows some details of cerberus history that Miranda and Shepherd do not know

And Miranda does hold her family (what little there is) very dear to herself which makes sense that she will want to protect those she holds dear to herself whether its from the Reapers or from her father which I think it would generate an emotional generating plot  (and it is clear that she has unfinished business with the man)

and of course it is very likely she will have a major role involving cerberus in ME3 so that is most likely her missions during ME3 atleast.

**EDIT**

and too be honest I think some of us will be question the out of the blue information coming out about Miranda's history popping up unless its history between ME2 and ME3

As I see it, there are two unused plot hooks left for MIranda in ME3:

(1) Her connection to Cerberus
(2) Her coming to terms with her origins.

I agree that (2) would very likely involving her father in one way or the other, regardless of whether she'll have to confront him in person. I don't have anything specifically against this scenario.

My objection was a more general one: the observation that apparently some people can't imagine an emotionally engaging plot without family being somehow part of it. As if people couldn't deeply care about anything else. Just so we do not forget it: Miranda has ideals, she has an agenda, something she cares for that is bigger than herself and her family. She wants to put her gifts into the service of all humanity, as a contrast to - by her own words - her father's selfish ambitions (of course we may be quite mistaken about how selfish they really were, but that's not the point). To subsume that under family problems would be ignoring a part of her that has always fascinated me.

We can have family problems in every soap opera. In an epic SF drama there needs to be more.  So let's concentrate on that. I'd like Cerberus and Miranda's work for them, her possible disillusionment with them and her thinking of a way to do things a better way to be part of her story. I want Miranda's genetic engineering and the possible repercussions of the technology that made her to be a topic. If then her father comes in by necessity, it won't look out of place. But I don't want her story to be reduced to family problems. That would cheapen her.

Please, don't cheapen my suggestion by comparing it to a soap opera, that is not remotely close to what I was saying. I merely stated that since her father had previous connections with Cerberus and now Cerberus is after her it is not unthinkable that the side mission would involve one last meeting with her past. Her sister doesn't have to be involved, I just think it makes the mission more practical since that would be the easiest way to get Miranda's attention. Idealism is great, but Miranda has a soft spot for her sister and that explotation would be the most feasible weakness to go after, since Miranda really has none.

Also in the ME3 thread I read that Shepherd will eventually face a woman who is the elite ranks of Cerberus. There can be a possible connection there, maybe the father gives TIM Miranda's genetic code and then Cerberus uses it to make another operative to kill off Shepherd and Miranda. Of course it's all speculation.

But other than that I don't see any other practical conflicts, unless they add some completely new element to her character.

[TomY90]

Mufasa92 wrote...

Please, don't cheapen my suggestion by comparing it to a soap opera, that is not remotely close to what I was saying. I merely stated that since her father had previous connections with Cerberus and now Cerberus is after her it is not unthinkable that the side mission would involve one last meeting with her past. Her sister doesn't have to be involved, I just think it makes the mission more practical since that would be the easiest way to get Miranda's attention. Idealism is great, but Miranda has a soft spot for her sister and that explotation would be the most feasible weakness to go after, since Miranda really has none.

Also in the ME3 thread I read that Shepherd will eventually face a woman who is the elite ranks of Cerberus. There can be a possible connection there, maybe the father gives TIM Miranda's genetic code and then Cerberus uses it to make another operative to kill off Shepherd and Miranda. Of course it's all speculation.

But other than that I don't see any other practical conflicts, unless they add some completely new element to her character.

You got to remember Casey Hudson (i think it was Casey Hudson but either way someone who works high up on the Mass Effect series) said that Mass Effect is a Space Opera so i think the use of plots you can imagine in other forms are opera's are sort of justified.

I thought you would be coming face to face with cerberus's top assassin from the novels (cant remember the guys name never read the novels) but it was a guy who is pretty much the same as commander shepherd (same training etc) but went down a different path for his career.

or are just saying we come across a high up female either way.

But I do feel you are onto something with the whole genetic code stuff i wonder if the reapers joined up with cerberus is that they have copies of shepherd DNA and want to kill shepherd and replace shepherd with an indoctrinated Shepherd clone so that they can pretty much control any resistance against them (the reapers seem to like having control over everything)

or even do the old switch around with people close to shepherd to help create shepherds down fall (i can imagine cerberus has managed to get quite a lot of the squads DNA on record considering how much time they spent on a cerberus vessel.

Thats saying it would be weird a Miranda Vs Miranda fight.

[Jebel Krong]

@ mufasa - we don't know cerberus is after miranda. we know that for some reason they are now again after shep, but one doesn't necessarily follow the other. necessarily being the qualifier here (logically of course, especially as a LI they would).

@ tomy90 - space opera isn't analagous to soap opera - it means large-scale space-based themes (tech, battles, setting, powers etc) are present in the work, along with romance.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 26 mai 2011 - 08:48 .

[Ieldra]

TomY90 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Quick question as I work on chapter five. How proud/stubborn do you think Miranda is when it comes to asking for help? She gets injured pretty badly but not life-threateningly. Would she be the type to insist on continuing to move under her power, painfully, when help is offered. Also, are my initial instincts that she wouldn't tell anyone about her background if she could help it correct? Or would she not be above using it to manipulate Shepard?

I think Samara actually sums up what Miranda up involving this quite well which is (from what I remember)

Miranda is strong and is not willing to share her burdens like every women should do
I mean by it is that if she carried a wound she would most likely carry on regardless even if it caused her pain to move on her own steam.

Just to make things clear: Samara says that in the way that makes it clear that she approves of that attitude.

As for Miranda's level of stubbornness:

(1) She would accept help if injured badly, if she felt that accepting that help wouldn't endanger the mission.
(2) She will, as a rule, not tell anyone about her background if she can at all avoid it. But depending on how important she considers her mission, she would use it for manipulation.

[LuxDragon]

^ That's pretty much what I said.

[jtav]

Thanks for your help, everyone. Chapter five should be up in a few days. It's about 1/3 completed now. I might throw in another teaser. Am I boring anyone?

[Vertigo_1]

FYI: Kai Leng and Elite Cerberus operatives (none of whom are Miranda; dev confirmed this) will be after Shepard along with the regular Cerberus troops.

jtav wrote...
Am I boring anyone?

No.  I for one am looking forward to your next chapter

[Td1984]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

FYI: Kai Leng and Elite Cerberus operatives (none of whom are Miranda; dev confirmed this) will be after Shepard along with the regular Cerberus troops.

Good. I'll be looking forward to killing Leng.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

@LuxDragon

Read Fight for the Lost all the way through so far, it's really fantastic. Nice work

[LuxDragon]

Thank you! Always nice to get a compliment.

[Vertigo_1]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/73870709398581248

"Had a great meeting to plan some relationship details in #ME3 . Much of your feedback was discussed and will be incorporated"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 26 mai 2011 - 10:02 .

[jtav]

Let's hope that means Miranda will continue to be capable and independent within the confines of the romance. Please?

[TomY90]

jtav wrote...

Let's hope that means Miranda will continue to be capable and independent within the confines of the romance. Please?

I will be surprised if we know the details of the relationships before the release they never really announce much except you can romance with certain characters (they kept Morinth quiet).

I think they will keep the core dynamics of the relationships of the character but evolve the relationship over time to an level of either going one way or another which I can imagine if the relationship starts to go sour or progress further (I doubt they will do such evolution without us deciding the route such relationships take)

I can imagine it will become more serious as the story progresses if you allow it and can possibly become a more permanent commitment whether its marriage or becoming more serious about there relationship but the key part is that that they will make sure the player maintains control for instance they will not make it that the relationship changes without us wishing it to do so.