15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwnisher]

@jtav: I agree, Miri needs a happy ending in ME3.

[TheSixthghoul]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Just finished Miranda's loyalty mission. Not sure what it was, but I started crying when she saw Oriana. And the smile on her face when she talks about Niket being her friend...God, I want to shoot him myself for what he did. Screw my reservations about her ethics. The lady's going to get her happy ending no matter what I have to do.

Also completed Jacob's loyalty mission. The look she gives him still gets me, and he is so transparently obviously still in love with her that it breaks my heart. I want him to get his act together and find a way to make it work with her.

Was Jacob and Miranda ever together?  Jacob stated that they were a
"little close".  I'd assume that they were kind of close friends. 
Meaning that they could talk about personal stuff.  Miranda says "I don't like discussing personal matters" when she brings up the loyalty mission.  I think Shep and Miranda are a better pair(paragon).  I REALLY think Shep should setup Jacob and Ashley on a date in ME3.<3  They look perfect together.

Know one, really knows. My best suggestion is to take Shepard out of Mass Effect 2 and put Jacob in his place, unaltered. You'll find they never really get past freedom progress conversation before doing Mirandas loyalty mission and never talking again.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Wary? Why? The revulsion is mostly keyed to her work from Cerberus, probably with a bit of the fact that I disapprove of her father creating her in the first place (religious grounds). I'm afraid I'm not very subtle, There's some truth to the brash American stereotype.

Wary, because I'm aware that Miranda is capable of playing anyone for a fool. For instance Shepard, in the romance. I recall you mentioning the possibility that she'll betray you somewhen, somewhere. I don't believe she will, but at times the thought still crosses my mind.

As for the revulsion, it never ceases to amaze me how different people think: not only does it not bother me in the least that her father created her, I fully approve of taking our evolution in our own hands instead of leaving things to chance. The only thing that matters is  that she's been created with all faculties of a complete human being, not some kind of human-shaped tool, slave soldier etc.. That all this poses some thorny ethical problems goes without saying, but once the capability is there, it will be used, and the best you can hope for is to prevent misuse. You can say a lot of bad things about Miranda's father, but judged from the result, he did something great when he created her. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 juin 2010 - 07:01 .

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Wary? Why? The revulsion is mostly keyed to her work from Cerberus, probably with a bit of the fact that I disapprove of her father creating her in the first place (religious grounds). I'm afraid I'm not very subtle, There's some truth to the brash American stereotype.

Wary, because I'm aware that Miranda is capable of playing anyone for a fool. For instance Shepard, in the romance. I recall you mentioning the possibility that she'll betray you somewhen, somewhere. I don't believe she will, but at times the thought still crosses my mind.

As for the revulsion, it never ceases to amaze me how different people think: not only does it not bother me in the least that her father created her, I fully approve of taking our evolution in our own hands instead of leaving things to chance. The only thing that matters is  that she's been created with all faculties of a complete human being, not some kind of human-shaped tool, slave soldier etc.. That all this poses some thorny ethical problems goes without saying, but once the capability is there, it will be used, and the best you can hope for is to prevent misuse. You can say a lot of bad things about Miranda's father, but judged from the result, he did something great when he created her. 

The reason why I hate him is what he did to her. Pushed to to high demands, never showed love, did unetihcal things ect. That's why I hate him. I am happy he made her tho, if he never did we would not have her

Modifié par kraidy1117, 28 juin 2010 - 07:07 .

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...
Here a question what are the three most important things about Miranda that need to be addressed in Mass Effect 3?

*Closure of her history with Cerberus - preferrably by her taking over, her approach to things being determined by Shepard's influence on her.
*Continuing and developing the romance

These two absolutely need to be addressed. I'd like some more info about her father and what he'd done, but I don't want the problem to be dealt with once and for all. it's more interesting to leave that aspect of her life open.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Just finished Miranda's loyalty mission. Not sure what it was, but I started crying when she saw Oriana. And the smile on her face when she talks about Niket being her friend...God, I want to shoot him myself for what he did.

Do you let Miranda shoot him in your games? For some time I didn't, but somehow I've come to think that it fits the story and the characters involved best.

Also completed Jacob's loyalty mission. The look she gives him still gets me, and he is so transparently obviously still in love with her that it breaks my heart. I want him to get his act together and find a way to make it work with her.

Eh...no. I'd set him up with someone else. Even if I'm playing femShep. Not that I dislike Jacob (except in his romance), but Miranda/Jacob is out of the question. He'd fit someone like Ashley more.  

[Ieldra]

Da Shadow Master wrote...
I haven't been in here for a while...Just stopping by to show some love for my other favorite woman in ME.

I see you've changed your sig. Do you mind if I use your Miranda sig (I have archived it somewhere) should I get bored with my current one?

[Homebound]

[Niceral]

That is so classy.

[awpdevil]

Away Tali heretic!

[Ieldra]

Updated the Miranda Lawson FAQ with:

What exactly did Miranda's father do that made her run away?
There is no tangible information about this, but there are facts we can construct a plausible scenario from: we know that Miranda found *something* so unbearable that she not only ran away from a materially comfortable life using force of arms against those who'd prevent her, but took away Oriana to save her from the same fate. The question is: what is this "something". From Miranda's conversations, we know that her father was extremely demanding and controlling and didn't want her to have any friends (possibly because he didn't want her influenced by factors he didn't control). We also know he disposed of his earlier daughters in some way, although the exact manner remains unknown.
So a plausible scenario is that Miranda, already dissatisfied by the strict control her father imposed on her life and her lack of friends, one day found out what had happened with her older sisters and decided she didn't want to share their fate. Hypotheses about exactly which fate that was include that their father had them killed or institutionalized as mentally ill. It is unclear if she confronted her father about this, but his security guard tried to prevent her from leaving. Instead, Miranda shot some of them and got away. It seems likely that Oriana was grown in response to these events.
Another possibility is that her father set Miranda up for some kind of emotional or physical trauma in order to trigger her biotics, and Miranda found out about his involvement. This is plausible because he had ties with Cerberus and supported their agenda, and Cerberus is known to have used this to trigger biotic powers.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 juin 2010 - 11:21 .

[Ieldra]

ShadowJ20 wrote...
1.I think Shep and her should destroy Cerberus and take down Illusive man. Cerberus isn't needed.  Miranda could go work for the alliance.

Something like humanity's STG is needed, most definitely. Opinions vary about whether or not there should be organizational continuity from Cerberus, but Miranda should lead such an organization. It might well be that Shepard influences its style and methods through his influence on Miranda, but it should exist. Apart from that, I want her to lead an organization with a reasonable degree of independence. A place within a complicated many-tiered organization like the Alliance, where her abilities are bound by protocol and rules of precedence, that would diminish her.

[jtav]

Ieldra, to answer your question, sometimes I take the interrupt and sometimes not. I wasn't going to, but she looked so miserable that I changed my mind. As for Miranda/Jacob, I have an almost Pavlovian response when presented with a pair of former lovers in a work of fiction and there are lingering feelings on at least one side.



If she is playing Shepard--playing me--for a fool, she's a dead woman, but I don't think she is.

[Lord Zeuss]

You guys already know about this.



http://twitter.com/Y_Strahovski

[TheSixthghoul]

Oh...*shrugs shoulders*

[Urazz]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...
1.I think Shep and her should destroy Cerberus and take down Illusive man. Cerberus isn't needed.  Miranda could go work for the alliance.

Something like humanity's STG is needed, most definitely. Opinions vary about whether or not there should be organizational continuity from Cerberus, but Miranda should lead such an organization. It might well be that Shepard influences its style and methods through his influence on Miranda, but it should exist. Apart from that, I want her to lead an organization with a reasonable degree of independence. A place within a complicated many-tiered organization like the Alliance, where her abilities are bound by protocol and rules of precedence, that would diminish her.

Agreed, humanity does need it's own version of the STG.  Cerberus would serve that purpose and that's what they say they do but the fact that they don't answer to the Alliance and are lead by only one man, makes it a terrorist organization than humanity's STG.

Basically, I would say something similar to Cerberus with a bit more protocal and regulation and having to answer to the Alliance would be ideal.

[Lord Zeuss]

Urazz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...
1.I think Shep and her should destroy Cerberus and take down Illusive man. Cerberus isn't needed.  Miranda could go work for the alliance.

Something like humanity's STG is needed, most definitely. Opinions vary about whether or not there should be organizational continuity from Cerberus, but Miranda should lead such an organization. It might well be that Shepard influences its style and methods through his influence on Miranda, but it should exist. Apart from that, I want her to lead an organization with a reasonable degree of independence. A place within a complicated many-tiered organization like the Alliance, where her abilities are bound by protocol and rules of precedence, that would diminish her.

Agreed, humanity does need it's own version of the STG.  Cerberus would serve that purpose and that's what they say they do but the fact that they don't answer to the Alliance and are lead by only one man, makes it a terrorist organization than humanity's STG.

Basically, I would say something similar to Cerberus with a bit more protocal and regulation and having to answer to the Alliance would be ideal.

If I may interject here, let me say that I think Cerberus has the right idea in principle but they go about that business in the wrong way. The comparison to the STG is an apt one. The biggest problem with Cerberus is they are essentially a dictatorship; the organization has promise, but Illusive Man would prefer to play God. I certainly wouldn't mind it at all if Miranda 'replaced' him as head of Cerberus (ha ha, *theorize theorize*!)

Cerberus Improvement 101: 1) Install Miranda as the leader 2) Some sort of oversight is needed

[Ieldra]

Urazz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...
1.I think Shep and her should destroy Cerberus and take down Illusive man. Cerberus isn't needed.  Miranda could go work for the alliance.

Something like humanity's STG is needed, most definitely. Opinions vary about whether or not there should be organizational continuity from Cerberus, but Miranda should lead such an organization. It might well be that Shepard influences its style and methods through his influence on Miranda, but it should exist. Apart from that, I want her to lead an organization with a reasonable degree of independence. A place within a complicated many-tiered organization like the Alliance, where her abilities are bound by protocol and rules of precedence, that would diminish her.

Agreed, humanity does need it's own version of the STG.  Cerberus would serve that purpose and that's what they say they do but the fact that they don't answer to the Alliance and are lead by only one man, makes it a terrorist organization than humanity's STG.

People bandy about the term "terrorism" too much. If not answering to the Alliance and being led by one man made you a terrorist organization, half of the existing corporations would qualify. Cerberus made attacks on Alliance personnel, that's why they're classified as terrorists. Still incorrectly, btw, because "terrorism" is defined by using terror as a weapon. It's a weapon often used by insurgents because they lack the means to fight an open war, but insurgency and terrorism are not the same.

Basically, I would say something similar to Cerberus with a bit more protocal and regulation and having to answer to the Alliance would be ideal.

Limited oversight is a necessary precaution for any organization that specializes in clandestine work as much as the STG does. Some legal immunity might be appropriate, and as for protocol and regulation, the less the better. Only the oversight must not be so limited that atrocities are overlooked.

@Lord Zeuss:
I agree with this:

Lord Zeuss wrote...
Cerberus Improvement 101: 1) Install Miranda as the leader 2) Some sort of oversight is needed

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 juin 2010 - 02:01 .

[Lord Zeuss]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...
1.I think Shep and her should destroy Cerberus and take down Illusive man. Cerberus isn't needed.  Miranda could go work for the alliance.

Something like humanity's STG is needed, most definitely. Opinions vary about whether or not there should be organizational continuity from Cerberus, but Miranda should lead such an organization. It might well be that Shepard influences its style and methods through his influence on Miranda, but it should exist. Apart from that, I want her to lead an organization with a reasonable degree of independence. A place within a complicated many-tiered organization like the Alliance, where her abilities are bound by protocol and rules of precedence, that would diminish her.

Agreed, humanity does need it's own version of the STG.  Cerberus would serve that purpose and that's what they say they do but the fact that they don't answer to the Alliance and are lead by only one man, makes it a terrorist organization than humanity's STG.

People bandy about the term "terrorism" too much. If not answering to the Alliance and being led by one man made you a terrorist organization, half of the existing corporations would qualify. Cerberus made attacks on Alliance personnel, that's why they're classified as terrorists. Still incorrectly, btw, because "terrorism" is defined by using terror as a weapon. It's a weapon often used by insurgents because they lack the means to fight an open war, but insurgency and terrorism are not the same.

Basically, I would say something similar to Cerberus with a bit more
protocal and regulation and having to answer to the Alliance would be
ideal.

Limited oversight is a necessary precaution for any organization that specializes in clandestine work as much as the STG does. Some legal immunity might be appropriate, and as for protocol and regulation, the less the better. Only the oversight must not be so limited that atrocities are overlooked.

@Lord Zeuss:
I agree with your this:

Lord Zeuss wrote...
Cerberus Improvement 101: 1) Install Miranda as the leader 2) Some sort
of oversight is needed

It should not be overlooked that Cerberus do good work on occasion (I think taking down Collectors warrants merit), and that must continue. But the use of unwilling, unknowing, and unsuspecting test subjects in experiments, torture, and murder to ephemeral, incomprehensible ends cannot and should not continue. Miranda has a much better grasp of how far is too far to take something than does TIM, in my opinion.

@Ieldra: I'm a' still a'theorizin!

[jtav]

Just got the Miranda/Jack confrontation. Must say I was quite surprised that I had both the Paragon and Renegade option available. I hope I don't regret making this an everyone lives game come ME3. If Jack attempts to carry out her threats, I'll be forced to take drastic action. If it were up to me, Jack wouldn't be on the ship. Too much of a loose cannon. Some day I'll figure out why Miranda gets more of my pity, despite her being less traumatized.