15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
We also have to remember that Miranda had plot armor in the SM. She's the only fire team leader that doesn't die if she isn't loyal. The devs made getting Miranda killed harder than anyone else on the team there has to be a reason they wanted her to be alive in ME3.

The plot armor alone doesn't mean anything. There's a technical reason for that: someone had to give Shepard information about the current situation in the SM, and they didn't want to create a version for every team member.

They did, however, go out of their way to make people use Miranda in their squads, and they tried to make people like her, as jtav said. That might mean something.

[jtav]

You do realize "important" could equal "traitor" as easily as something positive, right?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
You do realize "important" could equal "traitor" as easily as something positive, right?

Yes, but I don't think we'll get that.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I believe that Miranda could end up being indoctrinated and we have to try and get through to her the way we did with Saren. That would be a pretty powerful scene especially because most players have possitive feeling for Miranda and not negative ones like we had for Saren. It might also make a romance with her more interesting if this is the case as well.

[jtav]

Er, no. As much as I loved Bastila's romance, I don't need it repeated. Indoctrination can't be cured with the Power of Love. You'd be able to buy her a few minutes to die as herself, but that's it.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I'm inclined to believe that indoctrination can be fought by someone who is strong willed. Also the amount of time said person was indoctrinated has to be taken into account. Beinzia(sp) was indoctrinated for months maybe even a year or two. If Miranda was only exposed for a short amount of time it might not have taken hold permanetly.The devs always leave room to alter what does what in the ME universe.

Also I'm sure that Harbinger is going to try to hack into Shepard's mind at some point in the game to 'Assume Direct Control' and he'll have to fight it off too.

[Vertigo_1]

That seems a little cheesy IMO
Overall I hope this talk of indoctrination doesn't happen

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juin 2011 - 10:16 .

[jtav]

The most we've seen is temporary breakthroughs from a Spectre, matriarch, and a Cerberus agent. It can be resisted (and presumably the process can be halted by removing the source) but once you've reached a certain point, you're a goner.

[Vertigo_1]

*fires up ME2*
According to the codex:
REAPERS: INDOCTRINATION

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juin 2011 - 10:28 .

[TheMarshal]

@ISpeakTheTruth - That's some pretty thin reasoning there... Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that Miranda would be smart enough to avoid Reaper artifacts in the first place, indoctrination itself takes time. It's a slow and subtle process, not an all-at-once thing (otherwise the victims would get turned to husks, most likely). And once it's in, it's in. You don't feel under control of anything, so there's nothing to fight against You start doing things because you think they're the right thing to do, not because you're being told it's so. Willpower doesn't even come into play. It took an asari matriarch, one of the most powerful minds in the galaxy, facing the fact that she'd be killing her own daughter, to even shrug it off temporarily. I respect Miranda a great deal, but if she gets indoctrinated, Shepard's best bet would be to kill every last damn Reaper in the galaxy and hope the effects wear off.

Modifié par TheMarshal, 10 juin 2011 - 10:27 .

[naledgeborn]

In no way do I support Miranda's "fall to the darkside" via indoctrination. With that out of the way, indoctrination can be reversed. The prime example being Shiala. Under extraordinary circumstances of course.

[Vertigo_1]

TheMarshal wrote...
Shepard's best bet would be to kill every last damn Reaper in the galaxy and hope the effects wear off.

I doubt that would work...
From what I posted above you it seems that the faster the indoctrination the faster the mind degrades
Unless theres this mysterious artifact that magically undos reaper indoctrination (lol).

Reading the codex convinces me further that TIM himself was indoctrinated (not that I didn't believe it before)

[TheMarshal]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

I doubt that would work...
From what I posted above you it seems that the faster the indoctrination the faster the mind degrades
Unless theres this mysterious artifact that magically undos reaper indoctrination (lol).

Reading the codex convinces me further that TIM himself was indoctrinated (not that I didn't believe it before)

Right.  Fast indoctrination creates husks.  Slow indoctrination creates Saren.  I really hope there's no magical cure artifact to fight off indoctrination.  And I really really really hope that TIM isn't somehow the way we win the war.

Speaking of TIM, though, I have my own theories as to what's happening/happened to him.

[Td1984]

I hope very much that Miri does not get indoctrinated. I'd hate to be forced to kill her. I think that if we are and she's your LI, there might be the potential for a really cheesy cutscene where she breaks free of it as she lays dying and you have the option to essentially lock yourself into an ending where you sacrifice yourself to save the galaxy.

[Andysilv]

jtav wrote...

You do realize "important" could equal "traitor" as easily as something positive, right?

Still thinking positively I see?

Seriously though, I don't think that will happen with Miranda. Especially if your Shepard romanced her. We know how much that relationship meant to her, couple that with Miranda's strong loyalty... I can't see it happening.

The worst thing I could imagine, is that you're lead to believe she's betrayed you, only for her to come through at the end and help save the day! Or she could possibly be working undercover? I could see something like that happening.

[Vertigo_1]

http://twitter.com/#...378261360132096

"All the squad members from me1 and me2 have a story arc, that's all I can say, but none of them are 'the same'"

------------------------------------------------
And this is her response when I asked her about permanent squadmates:

http://twitter.com/#...387868778344449

"For those asking about "permanent" squad members, don't assume squad members will work the same way as me1 and me2"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 11 juin 2011 - 03:27 .

[TheMarshal]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

And this is her response when I asked her about permanent squadmates:

http://twitter.com/#...387868778344449

"For those asking about "permanent" squad members, don't assume squad members will work the same way as me1 and me2"

This is what I've been trying to push.  The idea that you "get" a squadmate and they're "with" you for the rest of the game simply won't work based on a) how many available squaddies there are, the plot of the story, and c) what they've already told us about having "fewer" squadmates.

[Ieldra]

I could live with team members rotating in and out based on where you are and on certain decisions you've made. As long as Miranda gets about the same amount of potential screen time as the others, I would actually prefer it that way. It would give every team member an opportunity to play a role in the main plot beyond being Shepard's follower. This is most important for Miranda, but I'd appreciate it for the others as well.

As for "indoctrinated Miranda", I hope that doesn't happen, because I have a suspicion about how they'll handle that, and I don't like it one bit. Like jtav said, indoctrination can't be cured by the power of love, or by persuasion. II'll be ok with it only f they give it a proper scientific background.

[Prudii Aden]

Long time no see andy. I'm guessing Miranda's got a decent role, largely due to Cerberus being 'a bad guy' and TIM do doubt will play a part.

[Phylangan]

hey guys, I'm looking for a picture of miranda again....

It's on Zaeeds loyal-mission, she is leaning near the waterfalls. I cannot find a pic with the black outfit (found only the white one)!!!
Anybody who can help me, show me a link or send an message.....thx

[Ieldra]

Here you are....

[Phylangan]

unbelievable, thx

[jtav]

I will be more than fine with whatever they do with Miranda as long as she's capable. But I really do want her on the squad so she can interact with Kaidan and Liara. And I figure 1-2 ME2 squad mates have to come back.

[Ieldra]

@Phylangan:
Several regulars here have extended archives of Miranda screenshots. I suspect Yannkee's is even more extensive than mine. Though he won't have many - if any - shots of Miranda in her AAP2 armor.