15168 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSixthghoul]

This thread needs a bit of a refresh, so new topic where would Miranda fit on your top five(or longer)  fictional female characters? So here's a song from From My Sofa  My girlfriend is better than yours
Short list
1.Morrigan Witch DA
2.Miranda
3.The Rani Scientist Doctor Who
4.Bastila Shan
5.Silk Fox

[Ieldra]

You like Morrigan better than Miranda? May I ask why?



I like Morrigan, but she has this attitude of being unfriendly and even cruel even if being more friendly would cost her nothing. Still my favorite romance from DAO, but I like Miranda better. I don't recall Bastila that well, and don't know the others you mentioned.



Apart from that, my most favorite female character might be the protagonist from Spellforce 1 and its expansions, the Rune Warrior (if you chose a woman), for the simple reason that there was, over about 80-100 hours of playing, not more than one single line I couldn't identify with, making her the only fully-voiced protagonist in any game I could identify with easily. Much easier than with Shepard, I should say, since I don't find it easy to identify with the "badass action hero" template used in his/her creation.

[Prudii Aden]

My top 5 would have to go something like this-

1) Miranda (no surprise there)

2) Sarah Walker

3) Leliana

4) Mirax Terrik

5) Ellen Ripley

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'd like to revisit the engine room scene discussion for a more comprehensive picture of people's opinions. So: what do you like, and/or dislike, about the scene?

Here my most important points:

Likes:
(1) It's a scene without words. I'm probably in the minority here, but I like that very much. At this point in the romance, everything important has been said, and it remains for Shepard and Miranda to express how much they care about each other in a different way. The absence of dialogue gives the scene a certain mood, and anyway, words always trigger my analytical mind which doesn't seem that appropriate.
(2) Miranda rules this scene, not Shepard. And it's not just the sex, but her presence in the whole scene.

Dislikes:
(1) The location. Not the engine room as such, but the corrugated metal floor. That can't be comfortable. Watching it makes me wince.
(2) It's a planned encounter. I can't be anything else considering the location, but I'd have preferred something more spontaneous.

no words - you've done enough talking already (whatever your alignment). personally i find that  some of the renegade responses in the "courtship" are far more satisfying leading up to the scene btw, not that i play pure renegade (i play natural-erring to renegade), but they are more flirty/satisfying than a lot of the paragon ones in this romance. the scene also starts surprisingly tenderly considering the flirting upstairs, before unfolding as you'd expect of a meeting of equals. one of the best scenes in the game.

[awpdevil]

1. Ellen Ripley - What other woman have you seen strap a flamethrower to an assault rifle and go kick some alien ass?



I love Miranda, but I don't think she would stand a chance in hell against the aliens Ripley beat the hell out of, or any other chick for that matter.

Sigourney is my leading lady when it comes to kick ass chicks.

Until I see Miranda or any other chick in a movie accomplish what Ripley did. She will be the only one on my list.

[langelog]

awpdevil wrote...

1. Ellen Ripley - What other woman have you seen strap a flamethrower to an assault rifle and go kick some alien ass?

I love Miranda, but I don't think she would stand a chance in hell against the aliens Ripley beat the hell out of, or any other chick for that matter.
Sigourney is my leading lady when it comes to kick ass chicks.
Until I see Miranda or any other chick in a movie accomplish what Ripley did. She will be the only one on my list.

Amen to that! The end of the first Alien in which she strips down to her underwear is actually kinda hot, but yeah, though not as badass, Miranda is way hotter, I'm in love with a virtual character!

PS: Don't tell my GF.

Modifié par langelog, 01 juillet 2010 - 09:27 .

[Lord Ed1]

Does any of you guys follow Yvonne on Twitter? I don't have twitter so I don't, but I'm kinda curious how she is on there.

[jensenagain]

 http://social.biowar...index/3001903/1

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You like Morrigan better than Miranda? May I ask why?

You pretty much answered your own question,some of the stuff I like about her character.Like I said before,I play the evil character when ever possible.

A more in depth answers, Miranda has two key problems, in contrast with Morrigan.I'll explain this in a separate post, I can tell this might be long.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I like Morrigan, but she has this attitude of being unfriendly and even cruel even if being more friendly would cost her nothing. Still my favorite romance from DAO, but I like Miranda better. I don't recall Bastila that well, and don't know the others you mentioned.

Also, have to look at the character I prefer...

The Rani - An amoral humanoid Time Lady, who preform unethical experiments on what she considers lesser species.

Bastila - If becomes a stereotypical British actor in States. Or if romanced Sith Lady.

Silk Fox - Becomes a ruthless Empress.

[Ieldra]

@ShadowJ20:
Thanks. Now I can try those romances I haven't seen yet without spending more than a few minutes extra time replaying missions.

@Sixth  Goul:
Looking forward to your Miranda/Morrigan comparison.

@all:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2010 - 01:42 .

[RollaWarden]

Hi, everyone.  New to the thread.

My post is very, very long. For those who don’t appreciate such long posts, please accept my apology.  For those of you willing to indulge me, I hope to provide a good read, and if I’m fortunate, some cause for constructive  discussion.

For those who choose to read on, understand that like many posters here in the forums, I enjoy RP’ing my  character.  I choose a worldview for him, and attempt, as much as the game will allow, to keep my character’s actions and dialogue consistent with that worldview.  That’s one of the great values for many RP’ers about role-playing.  It can be a richly rewarding, even anartistic experience.

As further explanation for what’s to follow, I had posted some time ago in the “Ashley Williams Support” thread about my devotion to Ash.  The following (again, please forgive the exhausting length of what’s to follow) is my explanation—written as much for myself as for other readers—why my Shep chose Miranda in ME2.  Here goes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After my first playthroughs of ME1 and 2, I was absolutely faithful to Ashley.  In RP’ing my soldier maleShep (Earthborn/War Hero), I figured Shepard, as an orphan who never knew his parents, would be drawn to Ashley’s strong sense of family.  Stability—something he’s never had (somewhat “Potter-esque.”  Ash was funny,  gorgeous, and vulnerable.  My Shep fell hard, and stayed faithful.

But then during that second playthrough…

Like many players say they did, I became annoyed with Ash’s reaction on Horizon during my second playthrough.  As an aside, I think the dev’s should be commended for the careful, deliberately ambiguous/open to WIDE interpretation of Shep’s meeting with Ashley on Horizon.  My guess is the writers’ intention was to provide a wide range of opinions regarding what Ashley said.  If so, they nailed it.  I should also note during that during my second playthrough, while I always chose the Paragon dialogue option when available, I ALWAYS chose a Renegade interrupt when available.  I also often chose the Renegade dialogue option if only that and a neutral option (and no Paragon option) were available—unless the Renegade option would likely insult one or
more of my crew.

In other words, during my second playthrough, RP’ing my Shep went somewhat differently than the first  run-through.  I really thought about what had happened to him, and what his logical and emotional responses would be after his death and rebuild by Miranda and the Lazarus Project.  He already showed an annoyance with bureaucracy in ME1—sometimes even with the Alliance, and certainly with the Galactic Council.  Not enough,  certainly, to betray the Alliance—my Shep would never, ever do that—but enough that the Alliance’s mishandling of the Reaper threat really gnawed at him.  Here’s the facts:

1.  The Alliance, during their rebuild of the fleet following the Battle of the Citadel against Sovereign, scattered the Normandy SR-1 crew to the four winds.  Gave them backwater-post assignments.  A hush-up/cover up, probably top-down from the highest levels of the Alliance.  That wasn’t just a slap in the face to the Normandy SR-1 crew, it was a kidney punch AND a groin kick.  Those actions, after everything Shep and the Normandy SR-1 crew did for the Alliance and the galaxy, really, really upset Shep.  For the first time in his life, he begins to doubt Alliance command…a real, intensely personal crisis for Shep.

2.  While Cerberus and the Illusive Man absolutely cannot be trusted, they DID bring Shep back.  He knows that, and knows he owes them.  The Illusive Man also gave him everything he needs to defeat the Collectors.  Score one for Cerberusover the Alliance, though my Shep's loyalty, he believes, is to his mission and his crew.

3.  I don’t think my Shep fully embraced his role as a Spectre in ME1.  He was still an Alliance soldier, through and through. But now, in his re-awakening after the Lazarus Project’s completion, and after hearing from Anderson, Joker, and Dr. Chakwas what the Alliance did to the SR-1 crew, Shep’s well, to put it indelicately, pissed.  As my ME2 playthrough continued, my Shep finally began to accept—even embrace—his role as a Spectre, and what that means.  He sees his duty, and his loyalty, is to the entire galaxy, not JUST to the Alliance.  He is—literally—what he’s been made to be: Protector of the Galaxy.  And sometimes, he’ll do what he has to for the Galaxy.  Hence the Renegade interrupts.

All that’s why my Shep began to realize that his relationship with Ashley can never work. 

After their argument on Horizon, and despite Ash’s email, my Shep fears that if Ash has to choose again,  regardless of the fact that she’s sorry for what she said on Horizon—she spoke from the heart on in her meeting with my Shep.  Her loyalty is with the Alliance—and it always will be.  My Shep knows that if she’s ever again put in a situation where she has to choose between him and the Alliance, she’ll make the same choice.  The Alliance is her family.  Not Shep.  Maybe that’s wrong—maybe he should give Ash another chance.  But my Shep’s instincts
tell him that he and Ashley have to take different paths.

Ash wrote that she can’t lose my Shep again.  But she has.  Her John Shepard died two years ago, in the Collector attack that destroyed the SR-1.

This Shepard’s a Spectre; his loyalty’s to his crew on the SR-2, and to the value of every benevolent life in the galaxy.

My Shep, despite Ash's email apology, can't forget what she said.  Ashley introduced him as "A God, back from the dead."  He can't get that out of his mind.  Ashley--at least part of her--resents him.  My Shep, tough guy though he is, was deeply, deeply hurt.  An email just can't fix that.  Ashley had heard Shepard was back.  She's had time to consider what she'd say to him.  And she chose that??? My Shep's been through too much--and sacrificed too much--for that.  He just doesn't know who the real Ashley Williams is anymore.


Then Miranda’s mission to save her sister just melted Shepard.  Her vulnerability, and her slow revelations to Shepard caused him to realize that they were alike in so many ways.  No family, nobody who’s really close to them, who understands them and will stay with them no matter what.  My Shep fell hard—and completely—for Miranda.  That love’s about two people who have finally found each other, and will stand beside one another.  They’ve been to hell and back together.  They can withstand anything.  Shepard and Lawson.  When Miranda resigned, her doing so was also a message to Shepard.  They belong together, and their loyalty is to one another and the SR-2 crew.  Period.  Miranda understands Shep, he's beginning to believe, better than Ashley ever could.  Miranda's the One.


I hope in ME3 we players are allowed to choose between the ME1 LI and the ME2 LI.  My Shep just hopes that Ashley will understand.  He’s deeply sorry—and he will always love Ashley, but Miranda’s his soul mate.  I also hope that my Shep will have the chance—he should already do so in the time between ME2 and ME3, to talk with Miranda about Ashley.  Miranda deserves to know.  I’m worried that the dev’s will make the confrontation between ME1 and 2 LI’s a real showdown, with a load of “You should have told me’s” and “You betrayed me’s” from both sides.  I really, really hope the dev’s don’t do that.  Give Paragon options for Shepard to be honest with his true LI about his former one BEFORE LI1 shows up.  We’ll just have to wait and see…

Until then, it’s Miranda.  My Shep reached for her knowing exactly how he felt, and why.  And it’s right.

Wow.  What a game.

If you got this far in my post, please accept a final apology for the unconscionable length, and accept as well my thanks for reading.  I hope it was of some value for the thread.

Modifié par RollaWarden, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:25 .

[Ieldra]

Thanks, RollaWarden, for your description of your Shepard and how he came to love Miranda. If you read the OP (you should , you'll notice that many of us here have had a similar experience with her. She just becomes more and more fascinating, until one day you've noticed everyone else has paled in comparison.

As for allowing us to choose between ME1 and ME2 LI, some of us here - including myself - are so afraid of how Bioware will handle that that they've replayed their ME1 games to leave their ME1 LI on Virmire or avoid a romance in ME1 in the first place. I have one Shepard who was with Ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2, and another who left his ME1 LI on Virmire, just in case. A sad example of metagaming, but I feel that Bioware could destroy the characters by designing for the wrong crowd, and I won't run the risk of that.

Ah...and welcome here. If there is anything you don't know about Miranda yet, I'm sure you'll find it here.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:09 .

[Darrekx2]

RollaWarden wrote...

... *snip*

If you got this far in my post, please accept a final apology for the unconscionable length, and accept as well my thanks for reading.  I hope it was of some value for the thread.

Its totally worth reading.
I fully aspect that the implement both ME1 and ME2 LI's for ME3, but i really hope that they don't cut on the content of the characters to get them all in. I want no storys with loose ends

Modifié par Darrekx2, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:11 .

[RollaWarden]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Thanks, RollaWarden, for your description of your Shepard and how he came to love Miranda. If you read the OP (you should , you'll notice that many of us here have had a similar experience with her. She just becomes more and more fascinating, until one day you've noticed everyone else has paled in comparison.

Thanks, my fine OP Ieldra2.  I did read the OP before submitting mine, and even read through the other, earlier Miranda threads.  Fine reading--and partially what inspired me to add my contribution.  Great stuff.

As for allowing us to choose between ME1 and ME2 LI, some of us here - including myself - are so afraid of how Bioware will handle that that they've replayed their ME1 games to leave their ME1 LI on Virmire or avoid a romance in ME1 in the first place. I have one Shepard who was with Ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2, and another who left his ME1 LI on Virmire, just in case. A sad example of metagaming, but I feel that Bioware could destroy the characters by designing for the wrong crowd, and I won't run the risk of that.

I've been seriously considering doing that very thing.  Much as I don't relish the thought of yet another series of hopelessly tedious go-rounds in the Mako, I may have to, for the very reasons you mentioned.  I also feel like I'll have to meta-game to avoid any potential poor handling of the ME1 and 2 LI's.  It will be such a shame if that's the case;; there's much potential for a well-handled "which LI should I finally commit to" scenario.  But it's out of our hands, unfortunately.  So in the next ME1 playthrough--no LI for my Shep.  I may even let Ashley die a hero on Virmire, and restore her family name.  Then another welcome playthrough of ME2--with the fantastic Miranda.

Ah...and welcome here. If there is anything you don't know about Miranda yet, I'm sure you'll find it here.

Thanks very much, again, Ieldra2.  Looking forward to being a regular contributor.

Modifié par RollaWarden, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:37 .

[TheSixthghoul]

Reason one: I call Morrigan the"oh no"moments and Miranda the "why?" moments.

See with Morrigan, it felt like Bioware had set objectives of what they wanted her to be. Her opinions are pretty much set and what they are.The "oh no" is when she reacts on them example the mage tower. Now, Miranda it seems Bioware was trying to do the same thing, but for a boarder audience ,but doesn't work. Like I said in an earlier post it comes off as if, she had a split personalty.Which would be great, if they would come out out and say so.

So, it comes off as if they wanted her to be this femme fatale, that everyone loves, be she's classified as renegade, so we make her do strange paragon stuff, that causes an imbalance. Yet, at the same time, making it appear that she could go ether way,when at the end regardless of what you do changes nothing.

To add to this Miranda never states any of her morals. Which in contrast to Morrigan, who pretty much never stops. Which,if you think about, would hint to a more opened romance. Perfect segway...

What was the point of a second romance line, for Miranda? Sure,different stuff happens during the romance, but it really doesn't go anywhere different. The ending doesn't change, Miranda doesn't have a more defined opinion, they would have been better off just combining both paths. Now, clear example is Morrigan and Jack(don't forget I don't care for Jack), of a romance track should work.Jacks romance can clearly go south by sleeping he, Morrgian by being too forward.

Bottom line, Miranda is not as defined as she should be. She has a great character and personally the best romance in Mass Effect, yet she's missing not depth, but details. That way she's not my number one favorite.

[RollaWarden]

And here's another thought:

I want a moment in ME3 when Miranda at last reveals just why she devoted every waking moment of the last two years of her life to bringing Shepard back.

We know that Cerberus had been closely monitoring Shepard ever since he became a Spectre and started his mission to defeat Saren and Sovereign.  Maybe Cerberus was monitoring Shepard before that, even.  Maybe throughout his whole Alliance career before his Spectre appointment.

So what if, while watching Shepard in his fight against Saren and Sovereign, Miranda fell in love with Shepard?

The Ice Queen's big secret, that she'd never reveal to anyone save the man himself.  Miranda's loved Shepard for a very, very long time.

She brought him back not for Cerberus, and not to save the galaxy, but for herself.  Because she has loved Shepard, and was with him, watching him, throughout ME1--even though she never really met him.

Miranda had to bring Shepard back.  She has always known that they were meant to be together.

Again, just a thought.

Modifié par RollaWarden, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:48 .

[Prudii Aden]

RollaWarden, welcome, and, as Ieldra said - a lot of us have had similar experiences.

For me, the crux point was Horizon - when Ashley didn't give my Shep a chance. I played it through pretty Paragon that time and it still hacked me off. Part of the reason why Shep & Ashley got along was because of the shared ground - both military brats (Spacer War Hero) - but she broke faith. Considering that they'd both been through hell together, Shep thought she'd have at least given him a chance to talk before going off on one. She didn't so she's history.



As for doing a total replay of ME 1 - I made sure I had a save point just before the Virmire decision. If Bioware does screw things up in 3, Ashley will become radioactive dust instead of Kaiden.

[TheSixthghoul]

RollaWarden wrote...
So what if, while watching Shepard in his fight against Saren and Sovereign, Miranda fell in love with Shepard?

The Ice Queen's big secret, that she'd never reveal to anyone save the man himself.  Miranda's loved Shepard for a very, very long time.

She brought him back not for Cerberus, and not to save the galaxy, but for herself.  Because she has loved Shepard, and was with him, watching him, throughout ME1--even though she never really met him.

Miranda had to bring Shepard back.  She has always known that they were meant to be together.

Again, just a thought.

This sounds familiar and as unappealing as first time, I heard it. If Miranda acts like that, I'd have to consider ending the romance immediately and suggest psychological help. I didn't like it when Liara did it, I didn't like when Tali does it. It would be a shame, if Miranda follow suit, I expect better out of her character. There is no need for Tali 2.0.

*note*  Talking about, hero worship confused as love,is what it sounds like and that would be unfortunate.

Modifié par Sixth Goul, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:18 .

[Melra]

Sixth Goul wrote...

RollaWarden wrote...
So what if, while watching Shepard in his fight against Saren and Sovereign, Miranda fell in love with Shepard?

The Ice Queen's big secret, that she'd never reveal to anyone save the man himself.  Miranda's loved Shepard for a very, very long time.

She brought him back not for Cerberus, and not to save the galaxy, but for herself.  Because she has loved Shepard, and was with him, watching him, throughout ME1--even though she never really met him.

Miranda had to bring Shepard back.  She has always known that they were meant to be together.

Again, just a thought.

This sounds familiar and as unappealing as first time, I heard it. If Miranda acts like that, I'd have to end the romance immediately and suggest psychological help. I didn't like it when Liara did it, I didn't like when Tali does it. It would be a shame, if Miranda follow suit, I expect better out of her character.

Yeah, even I'd have to reconsider my Mirimancer status, if it would turn out that way. Well, I only have two LI paths for ME3 anyway, Miri or no LI.

But It seems very unlikely for her to do so, she just doesn't fit into the profile, Tali/Liara would fit quite well though. Liara already is there, but not too sure about Tali yet, she is quickly on her way though.

Modifié par Melrache, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:21 .

[RollaWarden]

Sixth Goul wrote...

RollaWarden wrote...
So what if, while watching Shepard in his fight against Saren and Sovereign, Miranda fell in love with Shepard?

The Ice Queen's big secret, that she'd never reveal to anyone save the man himself.  Miranda's loved Shepard for a very, very long time.

She brought him back not for Cerberus, and not to save the galaxy, but for herself.  Because she has loved Shepard, and was with him, watching him, throughout ME1--even though she never really met him.

Miranda had to bring Shepard back.  She has always known that they were meant to be together.

Again, just a thought.

This sounds familiar and as unappealing as first time, I heard it. If Miranda acts like that, I'd have to consider ending the romance immediately and suggest psychological help. I didn't like it when Liara did it, I didn't like when Tali does it. It would be a shame, if Miranda follow suit, I expect better out of her character. There is no need for Tali 2.0.

*note*  Talking about, hero worship confused as love,is what it sounds like and that would be unfortunate.

Oh, when I wrote the "Maybe Miranda's always loved Shepard" thing I suspected it wasn't original--that someone else had already considered it.  So it is.

Hmmm.  Perhaps you are right, Sixth Ghoul and Melrache.  It seems as though you may understand more about pychological underpinnings than I, and I see both your points.  It certainly looks as though the squishy romantic in me oozed forth.  I'll have to think more about the "Hero Worship isn't Love" consideration.  It's certainly what turned me off to the potentail Tali LI.  And here I was attributing the same thing to Miranda.  You're right; it divests her of the strength, independence, and clear-headedness that makes her such an appealing character.  Thanks very much for the insight.

[Caihn]

RollaWarden wrote...

And here's another thought:

I want a moment in ME3 when Miranda at last reveals just why she devoted every waking moment of the last two years of her life to bringing Shepard back.

We know that Cerberus had been closely monitoring Shepard ever since he became a Spectre and started his mission to defeat Saren and Sovereign.  Maybe Cerberus was monitoring Shepard before that, even.  Maybe throughout his whole Alliance career before his Spectre appointment.

So what if, while watching Shepard in his fight against Saren and Sovereign, Miranda fell in love with Shepard?

The Ice Queen's big secret, that she'd never reveal to anyone save the man himself.  Miranda's loved Shepard for a very, very long time.

She brought him back not for Cerberus, and not to save the galaxy, but for herself.  Because she has loved Shepard, and was with him, watching him, throughout ME1--even though she never really met him.

Miranda had to bring Shepard back.  She has always known that they were meant to be together.

Again, just a thought.

It's not impossible. But to me, Miranda feelings for Shepard before Lazarus Project are only admiration and respect. I think she fall in love during ME2.

I enjoyed reading your long post. I agree with you on many things.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 juillet 2010 - 04:10 .

[Ieldra]

I have to chime in to the exchange and say that I'd hate it if Miranda had brought Shepard back for herself. Sixth Goul has said it: if it turned out that way my respect for her would plummet - apart from that, I *really* hate plots where everything is personal....

[RollaWarden]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have to chime in to the exchange and say that I'd hate it if Miranda had brought Shepard back for herself. Sixth Goul has said it: if it turned out that way my respect for her would plummet - apart from that, I *really* hate plots where everything is personal....

Yes, the three of you are right, of course.  And I must admit that I, too, dislike plots where everything is personal.  Miranda falling for Shepard because of who he is and what he does in ME2 is much stronger, and allows her to remain her own person.

Without the need for therapy .