15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

So....I finally managed to play the other romances for maleShep to their ends instead of having watched their scenes on youtube. Conclusion: not only is Miranda the most fascinating among the squadmates, she also has the most convincing romance. Apart from the unnatural speed of her warming up, which could only be corrected by having more interaction/romance scenes, there's nothing that strikes me as off in her romance. Tali's too young for Shepard as he's presented, apart from the fact she isn't a woman but a femal quarian, and Jack's romance is quite touching but completely unconvincing. Yeah, matter of taste and such, but...

Miranda is the one. Great character on her own, and a fitting companion and lover for Shepard.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:15 .

[We'll bang okay]

Miranda Lawson forever

Modifié par Douglas n7, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:17 .

[jtav]

Now isn't the time to mention I've toyed with writing a story where Miranda and Shepard did have a prior and very serious relationship, is it? Maybe tabling that was for the best, though being in love with him wasn't her sole or even main motivation.

I promised my thoughts on the engine room scene:

--There's a tiny moment before she steps out of the elevator where she appears to be composing herself and trying to block out her "we're all gonna die" feelings.  That adds a bit of shading I find very welcome.
--The engine room is probably the worst place they could have picked. I can't stop thinking that the room is empty because of the kidnapping, not because Miranda cleared it. Except for Tali and that just makes Miranda come off as thoughtless or even cruel.
--I liked the actual sex scene up until she started removing her clothes. They do seem like longtime lovers.
--The dry humping, however, is ridiculous. I much prefer ME's close ups. There's something almost juvenile abou this.
--Some pre or post-coital dialogue would have really sold me on the relationship. Something that cconfirms that this isn't just a one night stand, but the start of a relationship.

And, yes, I did get both of them saving each other on the suicide mission.

[jtav]

And, Ieldra, I agree with how Miranda stacks up vis a vis the other official options for MaleShep. She's the only one I can take seriously. The other two have severely lopsided power imbalances that bother me on a meta level. Miranda's just makes me want to take a red pen out. I like Tali's better in terms of content, but she's so young and he's her captain.



I'll probably run one more maleShep that didn't screw up quite so badly, but it's back to Kaidan and Thane for me.

[Caihn]

My favorite moment of the engine room scene :

[Collider]

I'm not really sure I understand the alleged power imbalance in Tali's romance. She's 24, and he's only five years older. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, but I didn't find any power imbalance when there is an open display of mutual attraction. Jtav, have you done Jack's romance? I was wondering why you felt there was a popular imbalance there too.

I thought the engine room scene in Miranda's romance was the most "off" thing. That's not a criticism of Miranda herself, but the actual scene was largely useless in context of the romance and seemed only to be bare bones male fan service (judging how the scene was advertised before and after Mass Effect 2's release).

I found that Thane's romance was the most convincing and best paced. For one thing, there's quite an amount of dialog before the romance starts, and the romance is initiated by a fairly innocuous and subtle "I'm here for you Thane." It seems Bioware put quite a bit of effort into that romance. I think Thane could have very well be benefited from not having the "Carth syndrome" of Bioware romances in which the male love interest has a dead wife/lover/girlfriend and and possibly an estranged son.

On it's own, it's okay, but I took that some people did not think Thane recalling his wife's perfect eyes and other seemingly divine features was exactly compelling in the context of the romance - as well as the fact that it's been done several times in previous Bioware romances.

Of course - another thing to not here. If you like the character, and especially if you like them best, you are more likely to overlook their flaws (whether in character or romance) and glorify their strengths. I might say that I did not really care as a player (in context of Thane's romance) just how beautiful Thane's dead wife's eyes were, but I imagine that Thane "romancers" may view what Thane said are largely inconsequential and insignificant, or otherwise hardly negative to overall feel of the romance.

Modifié par Collider, 01 juillet 2010 - 07:18 .

[Ieldra]

I mostly agree with you about the engine room scene, jtav. perhaps some more details tomorrow - must get up extremely early. As for a previous relationship between Miranda and Shepard, I would be totally for it except that it would give the Lazarus project a personal angle I wouldn't like. So, yeah, tabling that was for the best as far as I'm concerned, though it's your alternate universe - if I don't like it, I can always ignore it, unlike the in-game stuff.

[Caihn]

Collider wrote...
 
I thought the engine room scene in Miranda's romance was the most "off" thing. That's not a criticism of Miranda herself, but the actual scene was largely useless in context of the romance and seemed only to be bare bones male fan service (judging how the scene was advertised before and after Mass Effect 2's release). 

The scene is not useless. There would be no sense to remove it, it's the logical conclusion of the romance.

The only thing I regret is that they should stop the scene just before she removes her clothes,

[Spornicus]

After Jacob's loyalty mission and after Miranda and Jacob are scolded by TIM, Miranda gives Jacob this sad look that's really adorable. Anyone have a screenshot of it?

[Raizo]

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the alleged power imbalance in Tali's romance. She's 24, and he's only five years older. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, but I didn't find any power imbalance when there is an open display of mutual attraction. Jtav, have you done Jack's romance? I was wondering why you felt there was a popular imbalance there too.

The main problem with the Tali romance isn't the age gap between Tali and Shepard, it's the way she acts around him when they are alone together, everything about it screams school girl crush. It makes her seem younger than she really isand more immature than she comes off in the rest of the game. What makes it worse is that I get the impression that she has placed Shepard up on a pedestal like he is some kind of God, she's in love with the 'Shepard' the hero of the Citadel, the man who defeated Saren but I don't think she really see's him, knows the real Shepard, she's too in love with her fantasy too accept the reality. A large part of what makes this unforgiveable is the fact that Tali was in ME1, she should know Shepard better.

Miranda is the only convinceable female romance in ME2. Not only does she warm up to Shepard and let her barriers down ( maybe a bit too quickly but still ) but it's also the way she talks to Shepard. I really feel that Miranda is the closest thing that Shepard has as an equal in ME2 ( or ME1 ).

I thought the engine room scene in Miranda's romance was the most "off" thing. That's not a criticism of Miranda herself, but the actual scene was largely useless in context of the romance and seemed only to be bare bones male fan service (judging how the scene was advertised before and after Mass Effect 2's release).

I don't think anyone really likes the setting for Shepard and Miranda's romance. I would love to know what the developers were thinking when they decided to place it in engineering.

[Spornicus]

Raizo wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the alleged power imbalance in Tali's romance. She's 24, and he's only five years older. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, but I didn't find any power imbalance when there is an open display of mutual attraction. Jtav, have you done Jack's romance? I was wondering why you felt there was a popular imbalance there too.

The main problem with the Tali romance isn't the age gap between Tali and Shepard, it's the way she acts around him when they are alone together, everything about it screams school girl crush. It makes her seem younger than she really isand more immature than she comes off in the rest of the game. What makes it worse is that I get the impression that she has placed Shepard up on a pedestal like he is some kind of God, she's in love with the 'Shepard' the hero of the Citadel, the man who defeated Saren but I don't think she really see's him, knows the real Shepard, she's too in love with her fantasy too accept the reality. A large part of what makes this unforgiveable is the fact that Tali was in ME1, she should know Shepard better.

You forget that Tali is a teenager in ME1 (quarian on her pilgrimmage), so she really is acting her age. In that case, the schoolgirl crush makes sense; she's young and enamored by the older, teacher-like Shepard.

[jtav]

I have a severe weakness for the "reunited lovers/second chance at love" plotline.So that kind of personal connection, as opposed to Miranda being "in love" with Shepard from reading the reports or somesuch, would have enhanced things for me greatly. If she was crushing on him that far back, I would lose all interest in continuing the relationship.

[Raizo]

Spornicus wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the alleged power imbalance in Tali's romance. She's 24, and he's only five years older. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, but I didn't find any power imbalance when there is an open display of mutual attraction. Jtav, have you done Jack's romance? I was wondering why you felt there was a popular imbalance there too.

The main problem with the Tali romance isn't the age gap between Tali and Shepard, it's the way she acts around him when they are alone together, everything about it screams school girl crush. It makes her seem younger than she really isand more immature than she comes off in the rest of the game. What makes it worse is that I get the impression that she has placed Shepard up on a pedestal like he is some kind of God, she's in love with the 'Shepard' the hero of the Citadel, the man who defeated Saren but I don't think she really see's him, knows the real Shepard, she's too in love with her fantasy too accept the reality. A large part of what makes this unforgiveable is the fact that Tali was in ME1, she should know Shepard better.

You forget that Tali is a teenager in ME1 (quarian on her pilgrimmage), so she really is acting her age. In that case, the schoolgirl crush makes sense; she's young and enamored by the older, teacher-like Shepard.

I hadnt really forgotten that although I kind of assumed that she was now in her early 20's in ME2. Either way she's finished her pilgrimage and she now seems to have status and responsibilities back on at the Migrant Fleet. For most of the game she is actually quite mature and inteligent, it's only if you chose to romance her theat she starts getting wierd.

[Melra]

[quote]Raizo wrote...

[quote]Collider wrote...

[quote]I thought the engine room scene in Miranda's romance was the most "off" thing. That's not a criticism of Miranda herself, but the actual scene was largely useless in context of the romance and seemed only to be bare bones male fan service (judging how the scene was advertised before and after Mass Effect 2's release). [/quote]


I don't think anyone really likes the setting for Shepard and Miranda's romance. I would love to know what the developers were thinking when they decided to place it in engineering.[/quote]

Does it even really matter? I had no problems with it at least. Maybe Miranda's own office would've been more preferable, since most of the stuff between the two happened there. Still I saw it just as a way for Miranda to show that she won't shy away from the whole romance in public. But that's just me. :innocent:

[Spornicus]

Raizo wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the alleged power imbalance in Tali's romance. She's 24, and he's only five years older. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, but I didn't find any power imbalance when there is an open display of mutual attraction. Jtav, have you done Jack's romance? I was wondering why you felt there was a popular imbalance there too.

The main problem with the Tali romance isn't the age gap between Tali and Shepard, it's the way she acts around him when they are alone together, everything about it screams school girl crush. It makes her seem younger than she really isand more immature than she comes off in the rest of the game. What makes it worse is that I get the impression that she has placed Shepard up on a pedestal like he is some kind of God, she's in love with the 'Shepard' the hero of the Citadel, the man who defeated Saren but I don't think she really see's him, knows the real Shepard, she's too in love with her fantasy too accept the reality. A large part of what makes this unforgiveable is the fact that Tali was in ME1, she should know Shepard better.

You forget that Tali is a teenager in ME1 (quarian on her pilgrimmage), so she really is acting her age. In that case, the schoolgirl crush makes sense; she's young and enamored by the older, teacher-like Shepard.

I hadnt really forgotten that although I kind of assumed that she was now in her early 20's in ME2. Either way she's finished her pilgrimage and she now seems to have status and responsibilities back on at the Migrant Fleet. For most of the game she is actually quite mature and inteligent, it's only if you chose to romance her theat she starts getting wierd.

I think the point is she regresses back to when she first met Shepard when Shepard starts to romance her. It's obvious she has feelings for him regardless, but Shepard reciprocating brings her back to ME1 days for some reason.

[jtav]

I'm overdue for a FemShep game, as well as a game where I'm as nasty to her as possible. You can't be truly cruel or belittling toward her. Mores the pity.



Ieldra has instilled me with a strange desire to make the story I mentioned abovethread work. Must resist...

[jtav]

Yannkee wrote...

The scene is not useless. There would be no sense to remove it, it's the logical conclusion of the romance.

The only thing I regret is that they should stop the scene just before she removes her clothes,

Or just do what the did in ME. What they have now feels like it was intended for immature teens who are going to go crazy over a bra shot.

[kraidy1117]

Shavon wrote...

Douglas n7 wrote...

Miranda Lawson forever

Yeah.  Just wanted to say, Miranda is my favorite ME2 Li, other than Thane, of course!

Thanks for the support Shav!

[jtav]

I don't think Miranda's the type to get married unless it's to save on paperwork or something. I don't think she'd be opposed to it. I just don't think she cares. She loves him. He loves her. They live together and are planning on kids. The piece of paper does nothing.

[jtav]

I want it to be nice and vague. I can imagine the happy ending for myself. I just want her to go on being a ruthless superspy, regardless of romance. And I don't wan the romance to dominate her character development. She's just as interesting without the romance, which, as I've said, I'm not a huge fan of. I prefer her with Kaidan, Thane, Jacob, or Liara. Mostly because they aren't canon and I can create them out of whole cloth.