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[TheKillerAngel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

awpdevil wrote...

You have to have tali or jack maxed out in the romance dialogue before you even start with Miranda.

Yeah, pretty much this.

(2) But if you insert a romance conversation with someone else between Miranda's two, then you will always get "If you think anything like that will happen again...." regardless of what you said earlier. This may be a bug....

Didn't happen to me.

[jtav]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

jtav wrote...

For me, it's not a matter of how I interpret them because I'm willing to downplay it. But I do worry that Bioware sees her character as appealing solely on a fanservice level and she'll be nothing more than a sex kitten who can shoot for ME3. If that's their plan, I don't want her back.

I'm pretty sure they won't do that.  Hopefully they read the demands on pg.1 by that shinobi guy (I think that's his name)

I can't help it. I'm a natural cynic. She probably won't get the screentime she got in ME2, so I worry that they'll spend their limited resources on sex appeal and chasing the lowest common denominator. The focus on sex, "everyone needs to know you're mine," and Casey referring to her as a simpler character make me concerned. I'm acutely aware that I'm not in the target audience for her romance. I don't even like her romance that much. But I do love her character and I'd hate to lose that because someone thinks all of Miranda's fans are teen boys.

[Darrekx2]

According to her loyalty mission, the summary of the mission and the possible destruction of the collectorbase. I think they go the road that she needs your help (as Paragon) again to rescue her sister. (referring to paragon because she quits Cerberus at the end.)

Hopefully she isnt to "whiny" about it and their are 2(Renegade/Paragon) ways of her development so that the influence of your playstyle is visible in the game, that would be really great but also a lot of work. Imo the development goes more in the direction that she begins to care more for others than humanity itself especially for shep if romanced. (Paragon way).

Modifié par Darrekx2, 07 juillet 2010 - 12:16 .

[TheSixthghoul]

I came up with a theory that could appease everyone. What if outside of the romance,we where given three different introductions of Miranda, three different path ways of how she would develop , outside of the romance for Mass Effect 3? The first being the renegade introduction at the beginning, The paragon/renegade during the conversation about Cerberus and the paragon collector base. Add the romance in for any combination to resolve the the paragade or renegon issues and everyone's happy,everyone gets what they want and see how Miranda is in there personal view.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
I think there are certain aspects that would clash with her being possessive.

Like, for instance, her "it's not a competition" comments.

Or her strict professionalism (which felt like it fed into her "it's not a competition" comments).

Miranda seems like she wants to be very professional. She's all business. To the extent she almost didn't want to have a relationship even. Now all the sudden she wants everyone to know she's in one?

Weird.

I think that being possessive in a relationship doesn't necessarily clash with professionalism. For me, it's about the fact that she's reserved to everyone but those very close to her. In that light, I can see her shout at Shepard when there's nobody else around (if their disagreement is about the relationship and not the job, at least), but IMO she wouldn't drag others into it except, by necessity, her rival. Everything regarding their relationship would remain strictly between them.

So "Tell the other you're with me", that's, by necessity, OK, but "tell everyone you're with me", that's weird.

By professional, I meant, Miranda would never want to set herself up like the jealous wife/petty b*tch type character. I imagine she might look down on women who are like that - like Jack. I always got the impression Miranda valued self-dignity too highly to be insane-o possessive or jealous.

I feel like she would be more the type who would want to convey the message, "Jealous? Don't flatter yourself."

[Caihn]

She's not jealous she's possessive. It's different.

I'm ok with a possessive Miranda, not with a jealous one.

[II Sl4sh3r II]

Yannkee wrote...

She's not jealous she's possessive. It's different.
I'm ok with a possessive Miranda, not with a jealous one.

Agreed. If she was jealous she wouldn't be telling you to choose one of them, she'd be demanding that you choose her, or confronting the other LI herself.

Modifié par II Sl4sh3r II, 07 juillet 2010 - 05:35 .

[Ieldra]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(2) But if you insert a romance conversation with someone else between Miranda's two, then you will always get "If you think anything like that will happen again...." regardless of what you said earlier. This may be a bug....

Didn't happen to me.

That's strange. I couldn't get the "Evereyone needs to know" line if I did romance conversation 1 with Miranda, then the same with Tali, then the second with Miranda, regardless of whether I chose "You're jealous/[Kiss her]" or "You're hard to compliment/So I can't admire....".

No matter. I won't test this any more, since there are no romance conflicts in my games anyway.

[Ieldra]

I just noticed that shinobi's ME3 wishlist in the OP focuses too much on the romance. I think we need a wishlist added for what we would wish of, and for, Miranda in ME3 regardless of any romance. I'll start with four elements that I've seen mentioned often:



Miranda non-romance wishlist:



(1) Miranda is defined, among other things, by her competence. She should keep that competence and professionalism.



(2) Miranda should keep her moral ambiguity. Her ruthless streak may be tempered or enhanced by some of Shepard's decisions, but it should neither vanish altogether nor dominate her character completely.



(3) Miranda must not suffer from "badass decay".



So, add your own elements to the list, or comment/correct the existing ones. The only restriction is that whatever you say should *not* be romance-related.



One element I'd like to discuss before adding anything to the list:



How much should her resignation influence her character?



There are two schools of thought about this: first, of course we want our decisions to have consequences, so she should change significantly. Second, Miranda is Miranda - regardless of what you decide, she always has doubts about keeping the base but also always has a ruthless streak. Also, the more Shepard shapes her through his decisions the less independent she becomes as a character.



If you follow the second school of thought, then, if she stays with Cerberus, she will do so reluctantly, which may result in her trying to change it from within. If she resigns, then she'll be glad to be rid of TIM, but she'll still think of her goal - doing something that profits humanity as a whole. She'll not be completely happy with either decision, which could result in interesting developments.



if you follow the first school of thought, then she'll probably be more content with whichever decision she makes. She'll be more Renegade than before if you kept the base, and be more Paragon if you destroyed it. In the first case, she'd become more like TIM, in the second, she'll lose a significant part of her ruthless streak.



Now, which would you prefer? I've heard many people say that they want her resigning to influence her character significantly. But I do not agree. Because I do not want her character to be so malleable, and because I think it makes for a more interesting personal storyline if the influence of Shepard's decisions on her character is more limited. And last but not least, because I like her as she is.

[awpdevil]

This is a complicated situation when I think about how they could change or not change her basic character.

After reading through, the first thought that came to mind was the conversation you have towards the beginning with her aboard the Normandy. It was something to the effect of Shepard asking her how she could be so trusting of TIM without knowing a lot about him, and her saying something about being good at reading peoples motivations.

If they go with this line of thinking. Miranda could be in for some changes personality wise. Shes born, goes through her early childhood like everyone else. Begins to be pressured by her father as she gets older because of his agenda. Leaves her father. Finds a new father figure with TIM, and believes he is different, then finds out at the finale that he as well, had his own agenda for her.

That sort of leads me to that saying, once bitten, twice shy. If they follow that logic, Miranda has the potential to grow colder in my opinion.

Modifié par awpdevil, 07 juillet 2010 - 08:54 .

[snfonseka]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I just noticed that shinobi's ME3 wishlist in the OP focuses too much on the romance. I think we need a wishlist added for what we would wish of, and for, Miranda in ME3 regardless of any romance. I'll start with four elements that I've seen mentioned often:
...........

I personally like to see that she retain her attitude as it is. I don't like to see her become like TIM or become a Paragon "cheesy ball". She should be the independent, strong woman that Shepard can rely on and don't mix-up been independent with loyalty towards Shepard. Those are two different things <_<.

Modifié par snfonseka, 07 juillet 2010 - 09:08 .

[Darrekx2]

i think the influence maybe peek in their new "loyalty" mission - if she resigns, against Cerberus and probably take over, if you keep the base, her father tracks down her sister again and captures her.

So it doesnt really change her character only the variable ingame which mission(story for her) you get.

Modifié par Darrekx2, 07 juillet 2010 - 10:27 .

[TheSixthghoul]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...

I came up with a theory that could appease everyone. What if outside of the romance,we where given three different introductions of Miranda, three different path ways of how she would develop , outside of the romance for Mass Effect 3? The first being the renegade introduction at the beginning, The paragon/renegade during the conversation about Cerberus and the paragon collector base. Add the romance in for any combination to resolve the the paragade or renegon issues and everyone's happy,everyone gets what they want and see how Miranda is in there personal view.

Seems reasonable...since Shep is a natural leader he (or she) should be able to sway his squad mates or lead them in a certain direction.  Let's take Garrus for example.....in ME 1 he was always about getting the job done  the quickest way.  He had very little use for standard procedure.  He's obviously chaotic good.  However if you play paragon and do his side mission (Dr. Heart) you can convince him that the quickest way isn't the best answer.  However certain things should be set in stone.  For example Wrex and Grunt should never lose their mean streak.  Grunt should always be looking for something big to kill.  Basically never shying a way from a fight.  Not much for pacifism.  For me Miranda before and after she met Shep(a paragon one), she'll always be rengeade in some way but she'll always have a soft spot which is evident when you do her loyalty mission.

I have considered this, it would still apply,her background and and any neutral opinions would remain the same.She would still retain her bad ass character even shown in the paragon introduction. What would "change" is stuff like her ethic's,which would correlate with the Collector base.Technically,regardless of what you do,you don't really "change" anything about her.She already covers most, if not all the potential variations in each introductory.As for her loyalty mission, the only thing that should come out of this is if she kills (or doesn't kill) Niket.Her relationship with her sister goes out the realms of paragon and renegade, it falls into the neutral option.

[Nightwriter]

If Miranda resigns in ME2, I want her to head up the Lazarus Cell (which is now rogue) in ME3. I want that to be her role.

I've thought about it. Cerberus and Miranda's professionalism and power are a big part of her character to me and I kind of don't want her to lose that. So my best hope would be that in ME3 Cerberus is going through a kind of civil war.

Everyone on the Normandy (everyone in the Lazarus Cell) is now loyal to Shepard. Including Miranda, who is the leader of the Lazarus Cell and has taken command of it against the Illusive Man.

[Breakdown Boy]

What could be interesting is a second person that enters the game that could be seen as a threat to all Shepard's LI's. Like if a different female character came on the scene who was like the opposite of Miranda and clearly showed an interest in Shep. That could create a nice love triangle tha tcould result in choosing to stay with current LI or go with the new person, but both are in you squad?



On another note, leaving Cerberus will absolutly change Miranda to a degree, she did a lot of work for Cerberus and leaving them could make her understand and comprehend the bad things she possibly did. Can't wait for ME3!

[Ieldra]

Breakdown Boy wrote...
What could be interesting is a second person that enters the game that could be seen as a threat to all Shepard's LI's. Like if a different female character came on the scene who was like the opposite of Miranda and clearly showed an interest in Shep. That could create a nice love triangle tha tcould result in choosing to stay with current LI or go with the new person, but both are in you squad?

The opposite of Miranda? Like incompetent, extroverted, ugly and idealistic? No chance  Also, the possible romance conflict between the ME1 LI and the ME2 LI is quite enough, we don't need another one.

On another note, leaving Cerberus will absolutly change Miranda to a degree, she did a lot of work for Cerberus and leaving them could make her understand and comprehend the bad things she possibly did. Can't wait for ME3!

She does understand. But she believes it necessary. I hope that won't change much. Perhaps she'll think harder about alternatives - Cerberus' brute force research often seems less than efficient.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The opposite of Miranda? Like incompetent, extroverted, ugly and idealistic?

Lol. No, I'm thinking more like sweet, sincere, guileless, emotionally open, gold-hearted, and unlikely to hold onto bitterness.

You know, something like, say... this.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Also, the possible romance conflict between the ME1 LI and the ME2 LI is quite enough, we don't need another one.

I agree with this though.

[jtav]

I want some kind of closure with her sister and father. It was her love for Oriana that really sold me on her character. And, er, I want to rend her father limb from limb.As for her resignation, I want her basic ethical stance to remain. I'd rather they focus on how she defines herself without Cerberus and what she's going to do once she realizes her resignation also has consequences for Oriana.

[TheSixthghoul]

LOL your joking right, Nightwriter?

Modifié par Sixth Goul, 07 juillet 2010 - 01:28 .

[jtav]

I find Nightwriter's pic hilarious, since Miranda's and Liara's interaction was the only thing I liked about Redemption.



Speaking of that, I would love it if her relationships with other squad members were developed in ME3. She and Liara cpuld be good friends and I could see a sort of mother-daughter relationship developing with Samara. And so on.