502 réponses à ce sujet

[Tain87]

 Right on the point of shepard not being able to fly a fighter or any space craft, I think people are comparing it to much to modern day special forces, it is set over a 170 years in the future. How much has the military change in the last 170 year. I think the problem is that people are comparing N7 to just one special force remember N7 is the alliances spec ops and they are a coalition of the earth countries countries. so have a read through this: http://en.wikipedia....l_forces_units    and I bet you will find one that teaches there operatives[/i] to use aircraft.

Basically take the training of a good lot of those special forces combined them and then evolve the training by 170 years and not one of us has any clue to what the out come is.

[danimalism]

Tain87 wrote...

 Right on the point of shepard not being able to fly a fighter or any space craft, I think people are comparing it to much to modern day special forces, it is set over a 170 years in the future. How much has the military change in the last 170 year. I think the problem is that people are comparing N7 to just one special force remember N7 is the alliances spec ops and they are a coalition of the earth countries countries. so have a read through this: http://en.wikipedia....l_forces_units    and I bet you will find one that teaches there operatives[/i] to use aircraft.

Basically take the training of a good lot of those special forces combined them and then evolve the training by 170 years and not one of us has any clue to what the out come is.

Quoted for truth, and may i add: Who cares if it's realistic, or if he has training, or any of that crap? It's a videogame. As long as it's well designed and fun to play, what does it matter?

Honestly i'm amazed people don't constantly complain about how "Biotics" are unrealistic. And FTL speeds are impossible, so they shouldn't be in the game, and giant sentient robots are seriously mathematically improbable.

It's sci fi people, the fi stands for fiction.

[mattahraw]

danimalism wrote...

Quoted for truth, and may i add: Who cares if it's realistic, or if he has training, or any of that crap? It's a videogame. As long as it's well designed and fun to play, what does it matter?

Honestly i'm amazed people don't constantly complain about how "Biotics" are unrealistic. And FTL speeds are impossible, so they shouldn't be in the game, and giant sentient robots are seriously mathematically improbable.

It's sci fi people, the fi stands for fiction.

well, that's one way to put it. We've been over this argument like 3-4 times in this thread already, too. It usually goes like this:

"but shep's not a pilot"
"how do you know he's not a pilot?"
"it's unrealistic"
"who cares"
repeat

[Stephen226]

the normandy SR2 should touch down, on Alchera(the crash site of the Normandy SR1), the crew should embark ,in both the kodiak, and the HH, to retrieve the mako, from the ice it is perched upon.



HH needs a mini thannix cannon, armor, shields, M134 minigun on a VI controlled turret



disembark from the wimpy HH, to fight on the ground like in ME1



improve the mako, when they bring it back, longer boost ability



from the HH, have a laser designator, to call in a space strike from the Normandys thannix,(being a particle beam it can go just about forever)

[mattahraw]

Stephen226 wrote...

the normandy SR2 should touch down, on Alchera(the crash site of the Normandy SR1), the crew should embark ,in both the kodiak, and the HH, to retrieve the mako, from the ice it is perched upon.

HH needs a mini thannix cannon, armor, shields, M134 minigun on a VI controlled turret

disembark from the wimpy HH, to fight on the ground like in ME1

improve the mako, when they bring it back, longer boost ability

from the HH, have a laser designator, to call in a space strike from the Normandys thannix,(being a particle beam it can go just about forever)

Dunno about bringing the Mako back, but a thannix cannon on the HH would be awesome

[mortons4ck]

2 words: jet. pack.

[mattahraw]

mortons4ck wrote...

2 words: jet. pack.

hmmm... not sure. Could work, if it's done properly. Could work as a class power, you get short bursts to relocate ala vanguard's charge. But as a full on vehicle I dunno...

[gotthammer]

A 'grav tank' would be nice: more robust than the Hammerhead, and could achieve 'full flight' and actually hover (unlike the HH's 'jumps').

A main gun like that on the Mako would be preferable to the HH's missile launcher, as well as a co-axial machinegun (again, like on the Mako), but maybe give the grav tank a missile launcher w/ limited shots (like the guided missile launchers on some IFVs, like the Bradley).



That or a modified version (maybe 'space worthy'?) of the Mantis gunship that you fight on Omega.

(hehehe, maybe make it look more like a Hind-D? )

[mattahraw]

gotthammer wrote...

A 'grav tank' would be nice: more robust than the Hammerhead, and could achieve 'full flight' and actually hover (unlike the HH's 'jumps').
A main gun like that on the Mako would be preferable to the HH's missile launcher, as well as a co-axial machinegun (again, like on the Mako), but maybe give the grav tank a missile launcher w/ limited shots (like the guided missile launchers on some IFVs, like the Bradley).

I definitely think that if they're going to have a vehicle play a main part in the story again then it needs to be at least a little customizable. Selectable weapon loadout at least. Giving people choice will help satisfy all the different conflicting opinions around here.

Obviously you can't please everyone or go too far out. But having the option between homing missles and a Mako cannon, or Thannix Cannon, would help a bit.

Being able to upgrade your vehicle with XP, like a character, could be an option too. If you want a heavily armoured vehicle you can invest in that, or you could invest in speed and stealth.

Basically customisation will help

[gotthammer]

mattahraw wrote...

I definitely think that if they're going to have a vehicle play a main part in the story again then it needs to be at least a little customizable. Selectable weapon loadout at least. Giving people choice will help satisfy all the different conflicting opinions around here.

Obviously you can't please everyone or go too far out. But having the option between homing missles and a Mako cannon, or Thannix Cannon, would help a bit.

Being able to upgrade your vehicle with XP, like a character, could be an option too. If you want a heavily armoured vehicle you can invest in that, or you could invest in speed and stealth.

Basically customisation will help

Yeah. Gotta agree w/ customization. Hopefully, if they do implement customization, it won't be limited to the vehicle's loadout, but also it's appearance. 

Maybe have 3 'platforms': a Mako-like vehicle, a Hammerhead-like vehicle, and either a gunship or a full on 'grav tank'. :happy:
Then customize each: maybe break it down to armor-type, barrier-type, turret-type (e.g., standard MBT-style turret w/ a main gun + co-axial MG, or an IFV-style turret w/ an autocannon, co-axial MG and missile launcher, or a mix of both? etc.), engine setup (maybe something like: faster or allow for heavier loads or something), and whatever affects maneuverability. 

Or, touching on that earlier post on 'jet packs':
how about 'Starship Troopers' (the book) or 'Honorverse' type powered armor? No flying, per se, but capable of covering large distances quickly, either by jumping long distances or running real fast.

[danimalism]

gotthammer wrote...

mattahraw wrote...

I definitely think that if they're going to have a vehicle play a main part in the story again then it needs to be at least a little customizable. Selectable weapon loadout at least. Giving people choice will help satisfy all the different conflicting opinions around here.

Obviously you can't please everyone or go too far out. But having the option between homing missles and a Mako cannon, or Thannix Cannon, would help a bit.

Being able to upgrade your vehicle with XP, like a character, could be an option too. If you want a heavily armoured vehicle you can invest in that, or you could invest in speed and stealth.

Basically customisation will help

Yeah. Gotta agree w/ customization. Hopefully, if they do implement customization, it won't be limited to the vehicle's loadout, but also it's appearance. 

Maybe have 3 'platforms': a Mako-like vehicle, a Hammerhead-like vehicle, and either a gunship or a full on 'grav tank'. :happy:
Then customize each: maybe break it down to armor-type, barrier-type, turret-type (e.g., standard MBT-style turret w/ a main gun + co-axial MG, or an IFV-style turret w/ an autocannon, co-axial MG and missile launcher, or a mix of both? etc.), engine setup (maybe something like: faster or allow for heavier loads or something), and whatever affects maneuverability. 

Sounds good to me! Still hoping we get some space combat of some sort, so a customizable fighter would be nice...

Even if it's like Halo Reach, just 1 flight mission real quick i'd be up for it!

[kalle90]

If the fighter was something like LAAT from star wars or Falcon from Reach you could even use it on landbased missions. Exploring planets like in ME1 would be a lot easier although fighting would be a bit tougher



I really hope we get both the choice and customization

[mattahraw]

kalle90 wrote...

If the fighter was something like LAAT from star wars or Falcon from Reach you could even use it on landbased missions. Exploring planets like in ME1 would be a lot easier although fighting would be a bit tougher

I really hope we get both the choice and customization

A bit of rogue squadron style land based fighter action would be beyond awesome...

[danimalism]

Yeah, full customization would be cool. You could have a mechanical officer that staffs the hangar bay, who specifically looks after the vehicles. He could have a terminal, like the armour locker or research terminals, where you can customize the paint job, load out, armour/speed trade off, etc.



c'mon bioware, do it!

[mattahraw]

danimalism wrote...

Yeah, full customization would be cool. You could have a mechanical officer that staffs the hangar bay, who specifically looks after the vehicles. He could have a terminal, like the armour locker or research terminals, where you can customize the paint job, load out, armour/speed trade off, etc.

c'mon bioware, do it!

If they had that customization in the first place for the Mako, I think people would have liked it way more. Same goes for the hammerhead. Give people a choice in how their vehicle behaves and they're less likely to complain about it's behaviour.

Hopefully we'll get a fully integrated, customizable vehicle for the main plot. If we're lucky, we'll get more than 1 vehicle. Either way it needs to be properly realized and not an afterthought like previous vehicle sections.

Bring on the custom paint jobs though. Fabulous shepard is going to love it.

[danimalism]

mattahraw wrote...

danimalism wrote...

Yeah, full customization would be cool. You could have a mechanical officer that staffs the hangar bay, who specifically looks after the vehicles. He could have a terminal, like the armour locker or research terminals, where you can customize the paint job, load out, armour/speed trade off, etc.

c'mon bioware, do it!

If they had that customization in the first place for the Mako, I think people would have liked it way more. Same goes for the hammerhead. Give people a choice in how their vehicle behaves and they're less likely to complain about it's behaviour.

Hopefully we'll get a fully integrated, customizable vehicle for the main plot. If we're lucky, we'll get more than 1 vehicle. Either way it needs to be properly realized and not an afterthought like previous vehicle sections.

Bring on the custom paint jobs though. Fabulous shepard is going to love it.

Just had a thought... Full paint job customization would mean they couldn't pre-render cutscenes... might make things a bit messy maybe? It'd be cool none the less

[danimalism]

kalle90 wrote...

If the fighter was something like LAAT from star wars or Falcon from Reach you could even use it on landbased missions. Exploring planets like in ME1 would be a lot easier although fighting would be a bit tougher

I really hope we get both the choice and customization

Yes please to this

[TalosX]

Piloting a fighter in an atmosphere could be fun. Piloting a fighter in space combat is suicide! It states very clearly in the codex that the first few waves of fighters DIE. So I don't see that as an option for the hero of the game... unless you want a very short game. I don't even wanna think about what kind of advanced anti-fighter defenses a Reaper might have.



I've never personally cared for "chase scenes". They do very little for the story and it usually just makes more sense to blow them outta the sky then bother with a chase at all.



A HH with Mako-equivalent armor and weapons could be interesting. They really do need to improve those "auto-targeting" missiles. I mean, would it kill ya to add atleast a special reticule so we atleast know what it's going to shoot at? As for mounting a Thanix... I won't even get into how implausible firing such a weapon in an atmosphere is. In all honesty, while powerful, it would have a very limited range in space as well. The absolute zero temp of space would cool that molten melt fairly quickly. For orbital strikes and ground combat, mass accelerators rain supreme!

[mattahraw]

TalosX wrote...

Piloting a fighter in an atmosphere could be fun. Piloting a fighter in space combat is suicide! It states very clearly in the codex that the first few waves of fighters DIE. So I don't see that as an option for the hero of the game... unless you want a very short game. I don't even wanna think about what kind of advanced anti-fighter defenses a Reaper might have.

I know, but this could easily be fixed with a state of the art fighter using normandy's stealth technology, or something else in the codex. The writers are paid to come up with this stuff.

I've never personally cared for "chase scenes". They do very little for the story and it usually just makes more sense to blow them outta the sky then bother with a chase at all.

In Lair of the Shadowbroker it made complete sense. You couldn't shoot down the car for story reasons that I won't spoil here.

A HH with Mako-equivalent armor and weapons could be interesting. They really do need to improve those "auto-targeting" missiles. I mean, would it kill ya to add atleast a special reticule so we atleast know what it's going to shoot at? As for mounting a Thanix... I won't even get into how implausible firing such a weapon in an atmosphere is. In all honesty, while powerful, it would have a very limited range in space as well. The absolute zero temp of space would cool that molten melt fairly quickly. For orbital strikes and ground combat, mass accelerators rain supreme!

A better HUD would be great, i agree with you there. As for Thannix in the atmosphere, the collectors have their particle beam heavy weapons, do they not? That is just a minature version of the beams the sovereign and the collector's ships use.

Modifié par mattahraw, 10 octobre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Joshep]

Whoa great thread, i agree with pretty much everything.



And what about a car chase in which Shepard has to take out his head, to shoot and throw biotics at the car he's chasing, or fire at the cars that are chasing him.

[Saremei]

I've never once understood what people mean by saying the mako was poorly designed or handled badly. My mako always did what I wanted and nothing more. /shrug. ME1 was fine. You didn't even have to explore the entire planets unless you were insane anyway and it was far less boring than scanning featureless planets for minerals.

[mattahraw]

Saremei wrote...

I've never once understood what people mean by saying the mako was poorly designed or handled badly. My mako always did what I wanted and nothing more. /shrug. ME1 was fine. You didn't even have to explore the entire planets unless you were insane anyway and it was far less boring than scanning featureless planets for minerals.

are you a PC player or a 360 player? It makes a big difference apparently.

[TalosX]

mattahraw wrote...

I know, but this could easily be fixed with a state of the art fighter using normandy's stealth technology, or something else in the codex. The writers are paid to come up with this stuff.

So the Alliance would take an experimental heat sink system and an experimental Tantalus Drive Core (that are the pinnacle of technology) and shrink them to fighter size in just a few years! I don't think so. Even if they managed it, it would be useless for fighter combat. It was already stated that it hides your heat signature, but that normal radar and visual sensors can still detect you. While that's fine for a ship with extreme ranges in the thousands of km with their spinal-mounted mass accelerator, it's useless for fighters who would need to close to what they called "knife-fight" ranges. Space-based fighter combat does NOT make any sense for Shepard. Especially against Reapers who are likely to swat fighters out of the sky by the dozens every few seconds.

On top of that, Shepard was an N7 graduate. Granted we don't know much, but every piece of evidence we've seen points to N7 being Special Ops training. So the idea of Shepard ever getting into a fighter is pretty weak at this point. If Bioware considered it, it would only be fan-service and not very realistic.

It might be plausible for Shepard to pilot the shuttle that drops the team onto the planet. He'd need to potential navigate a harsh atmosphere and dodge in-coming anti-air fire. If they upgrade the shuttle he might even be able to destroy some defenses with new onboard weapons. Something else that might be interesting. Planning out the mission before hand. The SR2 has that improved (if you upgraded it) ground scanning sensor. Show us a map of the area and let us choose where to drop in from. Each landing zone could have different advantages and disadvantages. Perhaps one drop zone has fewer men in the area, but has more anti-air weapons (making the flight down more difficult). Another could be heavily guarded, but has no radar in the area (allowing you the element of surprise when fighting starts). There's alot of possibility with pre-mission planning.

mattahraw wrote...

In Lair of the Shadowbroker it made complete sense. You couldn't shoot down the car for story reasons that I won't spoil here.

Still makes more sense to kill him. If you can't kill him, you properly research and set an ambush so he can't escape. I maintain that chase scenes are a waste of a good RPG. If I wanted a chase game, I'd buy GTA!

mattahraw wrote...

A better HUD would be great, i agree with you there. As for Thannix in the atmosphere, the collectors have their particle beam heavy weapons, do they not? That is just a minature version of the beams the sovereign and the collector's ships use.

Ahhh no! Particle Beams are just that, a beam of directed energy particles (electrons being the favorite by most science-fiction). In other words, it's a pure energy weapon. The Thannix  is absolutely NOT an energy weapon. It's a mass accelerator that fires a stream of molten metal. In an atmosphere a Thannix would encounter diffusion similar to lasers (beam spreads as it passes through air particles), scattering far more quickly then it would in space (vacuum). While it would be fine at very short ranges. You would "hose-down" a whole area with molten metal if you attempted it at longer ranges. Not to mention environmental concerns about splashing molten metal all over an area.

Modifié par TalosX, 11 octobre 2010 - 11:13 .

[CanadAvenger]

I like this thread. Lots of great ideas.



Here are some of mine:



First of all, I loved the Mako from ME1. I didn't really find it difficult to drive for the most part. I'd have to say if I could change one thing about it it would be it's bounciness. It would be a dream to steer on a 60% incline if it wasn't so damn bouncy! Tighten up that suspension, and you have  the best off-road tank in vehicular history.

That being said, the Hammerhead was an interesting idea. I liked the idea of a "prototype hovertank". the idea of homing missiles was good, however the implementation of them didn't work so well. They flew into walls, they targeted the wrong enemy, etc. Also of course, it was coated in tin-foil armour.



The Mako had almost every advantage to the Hammerhead (IMO) in firepower and armour.

But the Hammerhead could certainly handle better, especially for people that lack in the driving skill department. The levels designed for it were not bad either.


In ME1, a very integral part of the game was planet exploration on UNC's. There was none of this in ME2, and instead a "Planet Scanning" system was implemented. To me, exploration needs to play a much larger role in ME3, but maybe not so much as it was in ME1. After you drive around on ONE UNC for an hour finding everything and completing the respective mission(s), it gets boreing pretty fast, no matter how amazing the scenery was (and it was amazing. I often find myself parking the Mako on a mountain and staring at the large planets and stars orbiting above ).



So, I propose the following:


***


The Normandy gets it's shuttle still (can't show up at a formal event or travel through the Citadel or something in a TANK, now can you?)

It also gets ONE exploration/mission ready vehicle. Not the Mako, and not the Hammerhead. I'd suggest a similar version of the Mako... Imagine a Mako with a makeover. It'll still be the 6 wheeled beast of awesomeness, but it'll be less bouncy, the steering will be radically different - all 6 wheels can turn left/right simultaneously. (Or if that's too hard to do, have the middle wheels lift up slightly while the front and rear turn.) This keeps the Hammerhead's manoeuvrability.

This wouldn't activate by simply using the thumbstick to turn, as that would be too awkward especially at higher speeds. I'll get into that in a second.



For weaponry, I suggest having a machine gun as primary, with a mass accelerator cannon OR guided missiles as a secondary.

As I am unsure as to how the ammunition system will work in ME3, I have 3 options here for whatever system is implemented:

1) The two secondary weapons can be changed between at the push of a button

2) Either one of the secondary weapons need to be chosen prior to vehicle deployment

3) Both are available as #1 states, but one of them will have limited ammunition (likely the missiles)



The gun can also zoom in to 5 and 10x normal sight.

This new vehicle will also be equipped with standard kinetic barriers and decent armour - heavy enough to take a hit but light enough to allow for easy vehicle movement.


Since I actually liked the Planet Scanning feature of ME2, I would rather that stay in ME3. This eliminates that "hunt" for resources in ME1 that didn't appear on any radar for some reason, but still allows for the collection of resources. Should BioWare choose to have ground-available resources in the game, then the vehicle's radar will
simply record the coordinates of the resource, and then [x] amount of [resource] will be found. (essentially the same thing as an ME2 probe - marks location for excavation).

It'll still retain thrusters as the Mako and Hammerhead had, but not to the Hammerhead's extent. Depending on length of the button press, it can hover to a maximum of 3 meters, for 2 seconds, or with a light press of the button, give short jumps. There are also more powerful ones that can be used to essentially "fly" the vehicle but are only used going to/from the Normandy, and are not useable in-game.

If it takes damage, it will have a "repair sequence" that needs to be activated. You don't have to stop moving necessarily to get it to work, but you can't take damage, or else it will stop before it's finished.

It will be fitted with a GPS and a markable map, so if you open a map and place a target down, the GPS will show an arrow and a distance to target.



Controls:



Left TS: Move forward, backward, steer left/right

Right TS: move turret 360 degrees, also steers vehicle in direction of turret view if throttle is open.

LT: tap once, zoom 5x. tap again, zoom 10x. Pull and HOLD - zoom in 5x, and upon release of trigger goes to normal zoom.
- Also works between 5 and 10x
RT: Shoot Primary
LB: (hold) Engage/disengage High Maneuverability Steering (Only available when vehicle is at 1/4 or less of top speed)
RB: Shoot Secondary
(Y) Button: Toggles between available secondary weapons (Assuming they are both implemented. If not, this button does nothing)
(X) Button: Enter/Exit vehicle (when stopped completely)
( Button: (Hold) End mission/Return to Normandy, if implemented.
(A) Button: Thrusters
Left/Right D-Pad: Switches targets for Homing Missiles
Up D-Pad: Open Map
Down D-Pad: Repair Sequence

The
map would only be available for a UNC type planet, that is, a planet
that is open to exploration. If it's a linear mission type area, then a
map would not be needed. The GPS would still function.

To keep with the Mass Effect vehicle name tradition, I'm naming this one the M-62 Tiger.

Again, this vehicle is intended for planet exploration and vehicle dedicated missions ONLY.

I do like other people's ideas though, in that vehicles can be utilized in-mission moments, such as the krogan Tomkah's or even the M-29 Grizzlies that are always laying around. Why not have the ability to use one of those for a short time? Just to cross a large distance and/or take out large groups of enemies. Who knows, maybe there will be a Hammerhead available for old times sake? Lol.


For a mission designed for this vehicle - this came to mind for me, which is the aquisition of the Tiger itself:

Say you have to raid a Batarian base, because they have aquired Reaper/Collector technology that could benefit you OR be harmful if used against you in the coming battle with the Reapers. You fly down to the base with the Hammerhead, and go through a number of difficult defenses, and manage to get inside the base. It is a much larget base than expected, and as you fight your way to the end the "Boss" or "leader" activates a self destruct mechanism in his final seconds, which will take you, your crew, and the technology into oblivion. There is no way to make it back to the start in time, and the Normandy is much too large to make a planetary landing, and there is no time to wait for the shuttle. The best you can do is take the new tech and push forward. You stumble upon a hangar bay where all ships have left with fleeing Batarian soldiers.... Except for one contraption that is up in the air, and was obviously getting worked on at the time of the alarm. All you can hope is that it works. You get it to the ground, jam inside and start it up. It's good. It's similar to any other vehicle Shepard has driven so he/she slams the accelerator and aims for the open hangar bay door, as the countdown nears it's final seconds. As the Tiger flies out of the door and falls to the ground (a fairly large drop - lets say 200ish feet) the base ignites in a massive fiery explosion... But you barely made it out of there. The Tiger plummets to the ground, and just before it hits Shepard engages the thrusters, slowing it down enough to make a very hard, bonecracking - but SAFE landing. You are then picked up by the Normandy and can continue on with the story. The Tiger is repaired, you learn what it is/where it came from (stolen Alliance Tech, for example) and bam - instant epic-ness.

***

In regards to space combat, I am also hoping that it will make an appearance in ME3. However, regardless of how awesome Shepard is, I doubt he can pilot a ship like the Normandy. I honestly don't know if he is even capable of flying a fighter type ship. If space combat is in ME3, I'd say it'd be more realistic if you flew the Normandy as Joker (if the Normandy is the candidate for combat) while Shepard went and did something bad-ass. Or you played the role of [insert random character here] piloting a short range fighter. This is just my opinion.


...END OF MASSIVE POST!

Modifié par CanadAvenger, 11 octobre 2010 - 12:55 .

[kalle90]

It's really random, but some Playstation1 game Rollcage type vehicle (a vehicle with tires making it able to move upside down) could be fun. It could have a horizontally moving turret in front the player uses and another one in the back a squadmate uses. Problem is it would most likely be redutant with Mako and Hammerhead around. So perhaps just have them as upgrades for Mako or Hammerhead (both would be great if I could make squadmates use some secondary guns)



So instead what I'd like to see:

- Mako (Heavy terrain combat/exploration oriented vehicle)

- Hammerhead (Light terrain exploration/recon oriented vehicle)

- Fighter (Light sky/space combat vehicle)

- Shuttle (Heavy sky/space exploration/combat vehicle) (The one in ME2 would do good if it had some sort of defences/other uses and not seem like just a chunk of metal that flies and only holds 3 people though it could have more)



Those could be more frequent ones you can choose which to use and upgrade them. Vehicles like underground and underwater vehicles, Normandy and such sound much more marginal ones. Some sort of "command Normandy crew" mission sounds plausible but it'd probably be 1 or 2 time thing and wouldn't have actual gameplay